Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

Inquitus · 14-02-2019 7:26pm

You couldn't make this up at this point!

Downing Street has released this statement about the result. A spokesman said:

Jeremy Corbyn yet again put partisan considerations ahead of the national interest – and yet again, by voting against the government’s motion, he is in effect voting to make no deal more likely.

While we didn’t secure the support of the Commons this evening, the prime minister continues to believe, and the debate itself indicated, that far from objecting to securing changes to the backstop that will allow us to leave with a deal, there was a concern from some Conservative colleagues about taking no deal off the table at this stage.

The motion on 29 January remains the only one the House of Commons has passed expressing what it does want – and that is legally binding changes to address concerns about the backstop. The government will continue to pursue this with the EU to ensure we leave on time on 29 March.

An Ciarraioch · 14-02-2019 7:32pm

http://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1096107756782792704

Havockk · 14-02-2019 7:34pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

http://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1096107756782792704

It's like we're trapped in an episode of Black Mirror.

volchitsa · 14-02-2019 7:38pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

http://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1096107756782792704

any hints as to what this might be? (Sorry, I'm not on Twitter)

EKRIUQ · 14-02-2019 7:44pm

volchitsa wrote: »

any hints as to what this might be? (Sorry, I'm not on Twitter)

Motion: Debate on a Motion relating to the UK's withdrawal from the EU

Hurrache · 14-02-2019 7:46pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

http://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1096107756782792704

Saw that earlier, I'm intrigued but expect to be very disappointed.

First Up · 14-02-2019 7:59pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

On another note, does anyone think that Ireland may be shafted by the EU with harmonisation of tax rates, specifically Corporate Tax rates, as a quid pro quo for their support for us re Brexit?

I note Victor Orban's Hungary has a CT rate of 9%. I doubt he would be happy with harmonisation either.

Just wondered what you all might think.

Will any (every) country have a veto? I am wondering about that.

It has been discussed to death here (and elsewhere) and long before Brexit.

Tax is a national, sovereign competence and many countries are determined to keep it that way. Rightly so; tax is a critical part of economic policy and every country is entitled to design the policy that meets its situation.

There are advocates in the Commission for tax standardisation but it would need unanimity and there is no chance of that. There have also been moves to put tax policy under qualified majority voting but that decision would itself need unanimity so you can forget that too.

An Ciarraioch · 14-02-2019 8:02pm

The plot thickens - a new centrist party launching, perhaps?

http://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1096117109220929536

Spanish Eyes · 14-02-2019 8:11pm

First Up wrote: »

It has been discussed to death here (and elsewhere) and long before Brexit.

Tax is a national, sovereign competence and many countries are determined to keep it that way. Rightly so; tax is a critical part of economic policy and every country is entitled to design the policy that meets its situation.

There are advocates in the Commission for tax standardisation but it would need unanimity and there is no chance of that. There have also been moves to put tax policy under qualified majority voting but that decision would itself need unanimity so you can forget that too.

Thank you for the clarification. I was hoping someone would say this.

UK could have decided to reduce their CT rates long before Brexit, but they chose not to. But now have decided that the EU will DEMAND that all EU countries coalesce with a unified CT rate and Ireland will be shafted into a higher rate because EU supported Ireland re Brexit.

Why did UK not reduce CT before now anyway.

oscarBravo · 14-02-2019 8:11pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

On another note, does anyone think that Ireland may be shafted by the EU with harmonisation of tax rates, specifically Corporate Tax rates, as a quid pro quo for their support for us re Brexit?

As First Up has said: direct taxation isn't an EU competence, and tax harmonisation has nothing whatsoever to do with tax rates.

The idea that the EU will shaft one of its member states as a quid pro quo for supporting it in another area is lifted straight from the British tabloids' caricature of the EU. It's a trans-national association designed to operate in the broad best interests of all its members through negotiated consensus.

boggerman1 · 14-02-2019 8:16pm

Anna soubry nearly in tears on sky news at the state of mental breakdown going on in the commons.followed up by another Tory totally delusional as usual that a deal will be given by the EU.

amacca · 14-02-2019 8:16pm

Anna Soubry just interviewed for Sky news. I thought she spoke very truthfully/plainly and very well about the mess that is Brexit and the sorry state of both the conservatives and the labour party.

sorry can't seem to get a link yet.

edit: sorry I see I've been beaten to it.....still I take heart from this, the worm is turning imo.

Marcusm · 14-02-2019 8:18pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thank you for the clarification. I was hoping someone would say this.

UK could have decided to reduce their CT rates long before Brexit, but they chose not to. But now have decided that the EU will DEMAND that all EU countries coalesce with a unified CT rate and Ireland will be shafted into a higher rate because EU supported Ireland re Brexit.

Why did UK not reduce CT before now anyway.

The U.K. has been progressively reducing its CT rate since 2007 (30%) and will reduce it further to 17% next year. The U.K. has an established base of corporates and thus a sharp reduction would have dramatically reduced yield. By contrast, Ireland had a very narrow corporate profits base which has built up to the current (likely unsustainable) level over 20 years.

RobertKK · 14-02-2019 8:22pm

Anna Soubry is one of the voices of reason in the Tories. Must be really hard for her seeing what idiots she shares a party with.

Panrich · 14-02-2019 8:23pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

As First Up has said: direct taxation isn't an EU competence, and tax harmonisation has nothing whatsoever to do with tax rates.

The idea that the EU will shaft one of its member states as a quid pro quo for supporting it in another area is lifted straight from the British tabloids' caricature of the EU. It's a trans-national association designed to operate in the broad best interests of all its members through negotiated consensus.

This is my thinking as well. We have donned the eu jersey at this very difficult time and have shown ourselves to be team players.

The EU I was potentially facing an existential crisis because of Brexit. If we wavered we could start a domino effect. The EU will need to ensure we are not given any reason to follow the Brits over the cliff.

RobertKK · 14-02-2019 8:25pm

Rumour is Chuka Umunna will resign from the Labour party at 8pm, who knows if true.

Spanish Eyes · 14-02-2019 8:26pm

amacca wrote: »

Anna Soubry just interviewed for Sky news. I thought she spoke very truthfully/plainly and very well about the mess that is Brexit and the sorry state of both the conservatives and the labour party.

sorry can't seem to get a link yet.

edit: sorry I see I've been beaten to it.....still I take heart from this, the worm is turning imo.

It is exactly what May wants now. She is the arch manipulator. Either the WA or NO DEAL now.

But whatever happens she needs to acknowledge the Backstop.

That is the big problem now I think.

BonnieSituation · 14-02-2019 8:27pm

Panrich wrote: »

This is my thinking as well. We have donned the eu jersey at this very difficult time and have shown ourselves to be team players.

The EU I was potentially facing an existential crisis because of Brexit. If we wavered we could start a domino effect. The EU will need to ensure we are not given any reason to follow the Brits over the cliff.

What was your thinking exactly?

Why so some posters on here seemingly continue this line that the EU are some "other" organisation?

WE ARE THE EU!

Thargor · 14-02-2019 8:27pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Rumour is Chuka Umunna will resign from the Labour party at 8pm, who knows if true.

He said earlier on Sky that he thought he would be in Labour until he was on his deathbed and he was shaking his head when he said it.

Hurrache · 14-02-2019 8:28pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Rumour is Chuka Umunna will resign from the Labour party at 8pm, who knows if true.

He was interviewed just after the vote and he said at one point that when he joined Labour he thought he'd be a member for life, so the rumour is plausible.

Edit, snap.

LuckyLloyd · 14-02-2019 8:29pm

So what? UK politicos will be all a fuss and a flutter but what difference will it make to Brexit in reality?

BonnieSituation · 14-02-2019 8:30pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Rumour is Chuka Umunna will resign from the Labour party at 8pm, who knows if true.

A couple of posts up there's a link to a story of a number of Labour MPs looking to jump including Berger and Umunna.

Classic Labour, they always seem to pick the right moment to have a meltdown and get the Tories out of a hole.

---

As regards Soubry's crocodile years; for all the sense she talks outside the HoP, she doesn't half get whipped well enough inside.

Hurrache · 14-02-2019 8:30pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So what? UK politicos will be all a fuss and a flutter but what difference will it make to Brexit in reality?

No deal gets closer.

Panrich · 14-02-2019 8:31pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What was your thinking exactly?

Why so some posters on here seemingly continue this line that the EU are some "other" organisation?

WE ARE THE EU!

Perhaps you’d be better aiming this at the poster who said the EU would shaft us.

BonnieSituation · 14-02-2019 8:32pm

https://amp.independent.ie/business/brexit/ireland-must-face-a-border-on-island-or-a-border-between-ireland-and-eu-in-no-deal-brexit-37816814.html

The Independent and Kevin Doyle yet again going with some "sources" stating that the EU are going to lean on us about the border.

I mean, why in God's name do they keep writing this nonsense? (It's rhetorical but just very frustrating)

BonnieSituation · 14-02-2019 8:34pm

Panrich wrote: »

Perhaps you’d be better aiming this at the poster who said the EU would shaft us.

You were the one who was saying we were "donning the EU Jersey" as if we were doing 'them' a favour.

Or how we "need to not waiver and follow them over the cliff". Come on. Be better than this.

boggerman1 · 14-02-2019 8:39pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

https://amp.independent.ie/business/brexit/ireland-must-face-a-border-on-island-or-a-border-between-ireland-and-eu-in-no-deal-brexit-37816814.html

The Independent and Kevin Doyle yet again going with some "sources" stating that the EU are going to lean on us about the border.

I mean, why in God's name do they keep writing this nonsense? (It's rhetorical but just very frustrating)

The indo is a rag and along with its sister rag the sindo has been peddling this anti backstop crap since start of yr.the only famous kevin Doyle I know played soccer,not some numpty in the indo

Capt'n Midnight · 14-02-2019 8:41pm

Havockk wrote: »

Just the latest signal that the UK government is in full-blown paralysis mode. I read Wiliamsons words about 'hard power' and chuckled at them, but it's just too funny to now learn that there were trade talks due with China at the same time.

Hard power worked against the Faroe Islands.

They used to take Scottish fish from Scottish waters.

And thanks to the proposed trade deal they will still.

Trade balance is UK buys £200m of fish from them but only sells £6m of stuff back.

The UK is looking to China to invest billions in UK nuclear power so there's that too.

Spanish Eyes · 14-02-2019 8:41pm

Anti democracy would be my view about the voting system there. But no one seems to advocate change to that system anymore.

It is no wonder people in UK are not engaged in politics when it it will be either Red or Blue, and any other entity hasn't a chance.

Hurrache · 14-02-2019 8:41pm

I'd remove the link so as not to tempt people to click it and give them traffic.

Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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