Journalism and cycling

Pinch Flat · 12-02-2019 09:07AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/are-serious-cyclists-putting-their-bone-health-at-risk-1.3783968?mode=amp

zell12 · 12-02-2019 10:04AM

Is it time to rid our cities of the private car? Featuring Galway, Dublin
Discussion coming up later on Pat Kenny
www.newstalk.com

Duckjob · 12-02-2019 11:41AM

zell12 wrote: »

Is it time to rid our cities of the private car? Featuring Galway, Dublin
Discussion coming up later on Pat Kenny
www.newstalk.com

The change-resistors always start talking about how so much of town business is provided by motorists and implying that business will evaporate if things are made any harder for driving.

It always drives me mad that they are never challenged on this to point to other cities in Europe that have had this happen when they were pedestrianised.

AFAIK the effect has nearly always been the opposite as it makes the city much more attractive for people to want to come into and spend time there.

Tell me how · 12-02-2019 02:10PM

zell12 wrote: »

Is it time to rid our cities of the private car? Featuring Galway, Dublin
Discussion coming up later on Pat Kenny
www.newstalk.com

I found this conversation infuriating.

To be listening once more to talk of metro North, widening the M50, moving the Dart underground in places, removing all public parking spaces to allow for more traffic lanes while we are experiencing the shambolic example of key project infrastructure delivery at the Children's hospital is depressing. What confidence can anyone have that any of these projects would deliver significant benefits within or even close to the targeted time-frame and cost?

I don't know if it because of a blinkered view, ignorance or vested interests that make us as a country so poor at this. We seem to have the same conversations and experiences year after year after year.

Hurrache · 12-02-2019 03:10PM

Might be interesting.
https://twitter.com/tallon_d/status/1095299836054769664

xckjoo · 12-02-2019 04:00PM

Duckjob wrote: »

The change-resistors always start talking about how so much of town business is provided by motorists and implying that business will evaporate if things are made any harder for driving.

It always drives me mad that they are never challenged on this to point to other cities in Europe that have had this happen when they were pedestrianised.

AFAIK the effect has nearly always been the opposite as it makes the city much more attractive for people to want to come into and spend time there.

Ya. Any research I've seen has found that it's footfall that dictates spending habits and cars reduce that. I think there was a good blast from New York recently where they've been working on restructuring transportation infrastructure.

CramCycle · 12-02-2019 04:18PM

If I am driving, i am not going to stop in my local town, 5 minutes from home if I feel hungry, thirsty, whatever or if I recall I should pick up a card, flowers whatever. If I am on my bike, I'll do it because it won't add on much time, there is rarely a parking issue.
Don't get me wrong, some people will literally stop on the double yellows, on a corner, block a footpath and a lane of traffic but most people will keep going.

You want more money spent in a town centre, improve PT, footfall and cycling facilities. If you want to increase out of town centres and petrol station spending, just keep going the way you are Ireland, your doing fine.

Chiparus · 12-02-2019 07:03PM

Duckjob wrote: »

The change-resistors always start talking about how so much of town business is provided by motorists and implying that business will evaporate if things are made any harder for driving.

It always drives me mad that they are never challenged on this to point to other cities in Europe that have had this happen when they were pedestrianised.

AFAIK the effect has nearly always been the opposite as it makes the city much more attractive for people to want to come into and spend time there.

Ask the traders on Grafton Street do they want 3 lanes of traffic returned?
Make it easier for motorists to get into town ?

Pinch Flat · 12-02-2019 10:09PM

Chiparus wrote: »

Ask the traders on Grafton Street do they want 3 lanes of traffic returned?
Make it easier for motorists to get into town ?

That’s always my retort. Of course there would be consternation if the likes or grafton street and henry street had traffic reintroduced. And to date I’ve never seen someone heading down either street carrying a cooker or other large appliance- this is usually cited as the reason for maintaining cars on our towns and cities. Shows how lame the argument is on the first place.

Tell me how · 12-02-2019 11:05PM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

That’s always my retort. Of course there would be consternation if the likes or grafton street and henry street had traffic reintroduced. And to date I’ve never seen someone heading down either street carrying a cooker or other large appliance- this is usually cited as the reason for maintaining cars on our towns and cities. Shows how lame the argument is on the first place.

Patrick Street in Cork is an interesting story in this respect.

They banned cars, re-allowed them, banned them again, and now, some of the original proponents of the scheme are supporting claims to allow them again.

Fine Gael councillor Des Cahill was originally in favour of the ban, but now says it is damaging businesses.

"The psychology of the public has definitely changed and has definitely put people off.

"It is clear that there is a change in shift in retail once you hit 2.30/3 o'clock in the afternoon. People just drop off."

The car ban had been introduced in April but it was scrapped after three weeks amid uproar from traders. It was re-introduced in August.

Pinch Flat · 13-02-2019 09:07AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-one-of-worst-cities-in-world-for-traffic-congestion-1.3791651?mode=amp

If only there was a two wheeled personal transport vehicle that’s human powered and keeps people fit and healthy as well...

buffalo · 13-02-2019 10:15AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-one-of-worst-cities-in-world-for-traffic-congestion-1.3791651?mode=amp

If only there was a two wheeled personal transport vehicle that’s human powered and keeps people fit and healthy as well...

Interesting to read the motor lobby's accepted representative's take...

“This is not the sort of list you want to see your name on and being close to the top when it comes to being stuck in traffic is not a proud boast,” said the AA’s Conor Faughnan.

...

“It is absurd for a relatively small city to feature so prominently and it shows that we have to see more investment in public transport, a better use of land and the provision of more cycling facilities until that happens it always going to remain a congested city.”

Pinch Flat · 13-02-2019 10:18AM

buffalo wrote: »

Interesting to read the motor lobby's accepted representative's take...

Said it before, but Conor faughnan is a keen cycling commuter “couldn’t pay me to drive in Dublin” I believe he told me once

jjpep · 13-02-2019 10:37AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Said it before, but Conor faughnan is a keen cycling commuter “couldn’t pay me to drive in Dublin” I believe he told me once

This is the thing. I like driving. I love the idea of hopping in the car and driving for a few hours and going somewhere nice. But I would never commute by car. Cycling is a way better option for commuting. It's interesting to see the AA almost push that message as well. How much commication is there between the various cycle campaign groups and the AA? There might be a surprising amount of common ground.

Pinch Flat · 13-02-2019 10:47AM

jjpep wrote: »

This is the thing. I like driving. I love the idea of hopping in the car and driving for a few hours and going somewhere nice. But I would never commute by car. Cycling is a way better option for commuting. It's interesting to see the AA almost push that message as well. How much commication is there between the various cycle campaign groups and the AA? There might be a surprising amount of common ground.

Same here. Just back from driving the north and South Island in New Zealand - covered the guts of 3,000 by car. Driven the garden route in South Africa and nothing excites me more than a drive from north France to the med. Route 66 is on my bucket list.

But I still wouldn’t commute by car, even if it was given to me for free.

Cetyl Palmitate · 13-02-2019 10:49AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-one-of-worst-cities-in-world-for-traffic-congestion-1.3791651?mode=amp

If only there was a two wheeled personal transport vehicle that’s human powered and keeps people fit and healthy as well...

"Drivers in the capital travelled at the slowest city centre speeds with the average speed travelled put at just 9.6 kilometres per hour at peak times."

Surely the only way to get the average up is by increasing speed limits

Chips Lovell · 13-02-2019 10:55AM

They left out some notoriously congested cities like Manilla and Lagos. However, there's no denying we're worse than most for congestion.

The thing is though, most people are undergoing this voluntarily. The average commuter in Dublin lives 6km from work. Most people don't need their cars during the day, they just use them for driving too and from work.

The majority are sitting in traffic out of choice, not necessity. It's their loss.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 13-02-2019 10:59AM

"Dublin has the distinction of having the slowest city center in all of Europe, where speeds dip as low as 6 MPH," the report said.

The city ranked in 24th place on the list of the most congested cities in Europe."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/dublin-reenters-top-10-best-places-for-expats-to-live-but-has-the-slowest-city-centre-in-all-of-europe-37811956.html

Grassey · 13-02-2019 11:03AM

Cetyl Palmitate wrote: »

"Drivers in the capital travelled at the slowest city centre speeds with the average speed travelled put at just 9.6 kilometres per hour at peak times."

Surely the only way to get the average up is by increasing speed limits

Unlimited limits on the M50 required!

check_six · 13-02-2019 11:40AM

Grassey wrote: »

Unlimited limits on the M50 required!

It really puts a fresh perspective on those who were howling about the 30kph zones. It doesn't matter what the speed limit is in the city centre, it still takes the sames amount of time to get across with all the traffic and traffic lights that you have to navigate. 30kph or 100kph limit would see you across town in the same time. One of those limits is a lot less dangerous for everyone else on the road (or beside the road), however.

mr spuckler · 13-02-2019 12:05PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

They left out some notoriously congested cities like Manilla and Lagos. However, there's no denying we're worse than most for congestion.

The thing is though, most people are undergoing this voluntarily. The average commuter in Dublin lives 6km from work. Most people don't need their cars during the day, they just use them for driving too and from work.

The majority are sitting in traffic out of choice, not necessity. It's their loss.

couldn't agree more, yet look how the first paragraph is worded...

Dublin is now one of the worst cities in the world to be a driver, with commuters spending almost 250 hours stuck in cars travelling at less than 10km per hour last year.

it almost implies that they have no choice!

Fian · 13-02-2019 12:09PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

The thing is though, most people are undergoing this voluntarily. The average commuter in Dublin lives 6km from work. Most people don't need their cars during the day, they just use them for driving too and from work.

The majority are sitting in traffic out of choice, not necessity. It's their loss.

Not trying to nitpick - but "average" is less meaningful than median in this context, there may well be lots of people living in appartments very near their place of work. In any case this stat is for those who live in dublin city, and does not include dunlaoghaire rathdown, fingal or the greater dublin area and surrounding counties. I suspect most cycle commutes are >10km. My own is only 7.5 but I live inside the M50 in Dundrum.

None of which is in any way to disagree with your central point that cycle commuting is quite doable in dublin and that most people I glide past in the mornings and evenings as they fume in traffic would be much better off and happier on a bike, if only they tried it they wouldn't look back.

Would be helpful if trains/darts allowed bikes on board to let people commute to closer to their place of work by rail and then cycle the rest of the way. But I guess space is at a premium on trains/darts during commuter times and it makes more sense to carry extra people rather than bikes.

Mickiemcfist · 13-02-2019 12:28PM

Fian wrote: »

Would be helpful if trains/darts allowed bikes on board to let people commute to closer to their place of work by rail and then cycle the rest of the way. But I guess space is at a premium on trains/darts during commuter times and it makes more sense to carry extra people rather than bikes.

To be fair, between Dublin bikes & Bleeper bikes, there's a solution. You're right though, it only takes one time trying out cycling & a lot of drivers wouldn't look back - I only converted last year.

Michael joseph · 13-02-2019 12:36PM

guy I know drives from Rathmines to haddington road and back - 5 days a week.
Journey's about 25 to 30mins for him. Just under 3km. Getting into start work at 9.
Doesn't need the car for work.

The journey has taken him an hour at times when the traffic is going nowhere but that's maybe twice or three times a year. Still it's madness driving that distance.

Gidea · 13-02-2019 12:49PM

Michael joseph wrote: »

guy I know drives from Rathmines to haddington road and back - 5 days a week.
Journey's about 25 to 30mins for him. Just under 3km. Getting into start work at 9.
Doesn't need the car for work.

The journey has taken him an hour at times when the traffic is going nowhere but that's maybe twice or three times a year. Still it's madness driving that distance.

That's a 30 minute walk or 10 minute cycle :eek: That's insane to drive it, he must be a masochist to stick in that traffic day in day out :pac:

Michael joseph · 13-02-2019 12:52PM

he sees cycling and walking more for students etc.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 13-02-2019 01:03PM

Michael joseph wrote: »

guy I know drives from Rathmines to haddington road and back - 5 days a week.
Journey's about 25 to 30mins for him. Just under 3km. Getting into start work at 9.
Doesn't need the car for work.

The journey has taken him an hour at times when the traffic is going nowhere but that's maybe twice or three times a year. Still it's madness driving that distance.

Oh wow. That's just ridiculous. You'd walk that handy enough. Nevermind cycle it.

Seth Brundle · 13-02-2019 01:20PM

Michael joseph wrote: »

he sees cycling and walking more for students etc.

That's a Thatcherite culture that we've encouraged for years.
Cycling is either for students, the poor or middle aged middle class men in lycra.

CramCycle · 13-02-2019 01:50PM

Michael joseph wrote: »

he sees cycling and walking more for students etc.

Hes places no value on his own time then, which if I worked with him, I would read as his time is worthless.

What Username Guidelines · 13-02-2019 02:14PM

Michael joseph wrote: »

he sees cycling and walking more for students etc.

This attitude is more prevalent than you’d think.

Plenty of people see sitting in traffic as a badge of honour or a status symbol.

And the data is there to prove it...

https://twitter.com/theagenda/status/959272692049354753?s=21

Had a chap in a suit last year tell me, from his 2010 Lexus, to “pay road tax” or “get a car like the rest of us” while kind of nodding to his steering wheel. Was tempted to tell him about the car sitting in my driveway but thankfully didn’t lower myself to the dick swinging contest he was trying for.

Journalism and cycling

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