Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

I'm not counting him as a fly half, Leinster rugby are. It's there on their website.

Noel Reid plays most of his minutes at centre. It doesn't matter what the website says. There's no official position for utility back.

Like I said, none of this matters. Leinster trimmed their roster to three from five. Something Munster needs to do as well.

It also needs to clear some of the ****e out at centre and scrum half.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster won't resign Taute or Hart. What you're demanding (why you care so much I don't know) is being done.

Yeah, cutting Taute is a no brainer. He gets no game time. Same with Hart.

I care because Munster's roster is rammed full of journeymen when they should be playing more academy guys. Cutting Hart is a good start at scrumhalf but since they've signed McCarthy they need to get rid of more.

Mathewson signed an extension I remember but until when?

Squidgy Black wrote: »

If you're counting Noel Reid as a flyhalf then Rory Scannell should be too. He's a centre who can cover 10 in a pinch.

If you count Scannell then should be counting Nacewa too.

That Leinster squad was the exact same as the current Munster squad in terms of out-halfs.
(L) Sexton for (M) Carbery (1st choice)
(L) Byrne for (M) Johnston (Backup only plays out-half)
(L) Carbery for (M) Hanrahan.(also covers fullback)
(L) Reid for (M) Bleyendaal (also covers centre)
(L) Marsh for (M) Keatley (barely played)
(L) Nacewa for (M) Scannell (centre more than out-half)

Seems a few posters are after reading the Moles article on Munsters squad and are now experts on squad depth and how many out halfs each province should have. If only they looked back one season for comparison, but then again I don't think the Mole covered that in his article.

troyzer wrote: »

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Seems a few posters are after reading the Moles article on Munsters squad and are now experts on squad depth and how many out halfs each province should have. If only they looked back one season for comparison, but then again I don't think the Mole covered that in his article.

Why would we look back one season? We're talking about the future.

Leinster had four out halves last season and one of them got almost no game time. They also had a centre who could cover out half.

It should also be said that Carbery was clearly seen as a fullback, hence the move.

It's really not a fair comparison at all.

Seems to be a lot of mitigating factors on there to allow Leinster their 5 fly halfs. Are you accepting Munster have mitigating factors also are also reducing their numbers for next season?

Also if you have any issues with who is deemed an outhalf take it up with Leinster rugby as that's how it's displayed on their official website.

I'll awaited a detailed review in last season's numbers when Mole covers it in another article.

troyzer wrote: »

Right, so he could be the third man.

So Carbery, Hanrahan and TB. Get rid of Johnston then.

Johnston has signed a contract to 2020 afaik. With Carbery in RWC squad then resting after then 6N squad, don't think 3 OHs is loads. Especially with JJ and TB's injury history

TB has played solely at centre this season and hasn't signed up yet. Keatley has been released. Mathewson will be on his bike in 6 weeks. Duncan Williams is probably gone in 4 months.

They're clearly moving people on but if they want to have a large number of players at halfback, so what? They've changed coaches and guys who were signed up under a previous coach may not be wanted now but still have time on their deals. It's not like it's a long term situation.

aloooof wrote: »

Add to that Hart is likely gone at the end of the season. We've been here before. They're doing exactly what people are calling for them to do. Yet are still drawing criticism from some quarters.

I agree that's what Munster are looking to do. My criticism was aimed at some people on this thread who seem to think Munster should keep everybody.

troyzer wrote: »

What are the Munster mitigating factors?

Leinster's website actually has Noel Reid as a fly half/centre. I just checked.

congratulations on checking some facts. Munster have both TB and JJ listed as Fly Half/Centre as well but i don't recall you mentioning that. Did the Mole not cover it in his article?

Last season Munster had 4 fly halves on the books - Tyler, JJ, Keatley and Bill Johnson. The addition of the 5th fly half Carberry was effectively IRFU instructed to allow Schmidt ensure he had his back up 10 getting as much game time as possible. The move was completed well after all squad contracts had been done.

Tyler had been injured pretty much from October 2017 to November 2018 meaning Munster only had three out halfs last season. Since his return he has played pretty much exclusively at 12 where he was officially signed as part of the IRFU criteria.

A lot of the perceived issues with Munster squads relate to the high turnover of head coaches and timing of appointments for the last number of years. Coaches are inheriting players from previous regimes and need time to assess and then cull as required. This is being done and Keatley is a prime example. Hart will follow suit as will Taute.

You have little interest in looking at the reasoning behind this or even looking at what has happened in other provinces in the very recent past so not sure the above will actually mean much to you in your attempts at petty provincial points scoring.

Casey starting for the U20s is a sign that perhaps he can step up to the dirtracker team shortly. The RWC however means Munster might only get 10-12 appearances out of Murray.

Mathewson has been absolutely brilliant. If McCarthy wasn't signed then I would have been delighted to see him retained. Mathewson being NIE isn't really an issue as only Cloete and Botha are NIEs next season.

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

congratulations on checking some facts. Munster have both TB and JJ listed as Fly Half/Centre as well but i don't recall you mentioning that. Did the Mole not cover it in his article?

Last season Munster had 4 fly halves on the books - Tyler, JJ, Keatley and Bill Johnson. The addition of the 5th fly half Carberry was effectively IRFU instructed to allow Schmidt ensure he had his back up 10 getting as much game time as possible. The move was completed well after all squad contracts had been done.

Tyler had been injured pretty much from October 2017 to November 2018 meaning Munster only had three out halfs last season. Since his return he has played pretty much exclusively at 12 where he was officially signed as part of the IRFU criteria.

A lot of the perceived issues with Munster squads relate to the high turnover of head coaches and timing of appointments for the last number of years. Coaches are inheriting players from previous regimes and need time to assess and then cull as required. This is being done and Keatley is a prime example. Hart will follow suit as will Taute.

You have little interest in looking at the reasoning behind this or even looking at what has happened in other provinces in the very recent past so not sure the above will actually mean much to you in your attempts at petty provincial points scoring.

I'm not making petty provincial points. I already said that Munster is the outlier here. It's not just from a Leinster perspective. All three of the provinces outside of Munster have adopted this approach of six senior halfbacks, at least one of which can also cover other positions. Until last week, Munster had ten. And not all of it is inherited, since JVG came in he signed Mathewson. He didn't have to. There wasn't such an injury crisis that meant Munster literally had nobody to play at 9.

JJ is a fly half who can play centre and Noel Reid and TB are both centres who can play fly half.

It sounds like we agree that going forward, Munster will probably right the ship. All I'm saying is that as it stands, Munster have far too many on the books and there are people on here who want it to stay that way.

But if you agree with me that some of them have to go then why are we arguing?

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Quote any poster who has said that.

See below.

who_me wrote: »

Seems a bit light for me. Carbery will be away/rested a fair bit in the season, so at those periods we'll be down to 2 choices - and of those Johnston is still fairly inexperienced - and we'd be in trouble with just one injury.

And - even though I think JJ can be a great player - I'm still not convinced about him as a 10. IMO he always seems to play best when another 10 is on and he switches to centre or fullback.

I'd prefer to keep Bleyendaal for another season if possible, and give Johnston more gametime over the year before letting Tyler go.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Carbery will start all the important games if fit.
I would like to see Johnston as backup for Carbery and getting a lot of game time next season, with Scannell and Bleyendaal rotating at 12, and with Hanrahan and Haley rotating at 15.
Any injuries to Carbery and Johnston could see Hanrahan and Bleyendaal covering out-half then.
The unknown for me is what Bleyendaal is asking for, does he want game time at 10, or would he be happy playing more at 12, and is he looking for a lot of money so that Munster couldn't afford to keep him?
There's no doubt Bleyendaal is a useful player if we could hold on to him.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Id have 4 at a minimum and max of 3 with one who is in around national set up isnt enough when one injuries are so common etc.