Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

thomond2006 · 30-01-2019 01:33PM

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It's getting late in the season now for contract extensions and Bleyendaal's future is still up in the air.

troyzer · 30-01-2019 01:37PM

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

To me it looks like the plan for the future is 10. Carbery, 22. Hanrahan/Johnston, plus one or two reserves in the academy.
Hanrahan was used a bit at fullback, and seeing as Bleyendaal only moved from 12 to cover out-half when Hanrahan got injured, it's likely that he won't be retained if Hanrahan recovers, as we are stacked with centres.

Someone made a decision at the start of the season that Hanrahan was the better long-term option and that meant Keatley was surplus to requirements.

Keatley was just not in the long-term plan and they cut him loose, surprisingly cut-throat but perhaps for the best in the long run for everybody.

Personally, I think Johnston will push past Hanrahan next season. The few times I've seen Johnston play he has looked assured and more promising than Hanrahan.

This seems to be the way going forward. I'm amazed the IRFU allowed Munster to accumulate so many senior half backs in the first place but you have to think going forward they'll want Munster to be along the same lines as Munster. Two dedicated senior fly halves, one or two senior squad players who can cover and the academy making up the numbers.

In Munster's case you'd imagine that's Carbery/Johnston and then the squad player is Hanrahan who can also cover centre and fullback. Bleyendaal would have to go. He'll be 30 by the end of next season anyway.

Sabre0001 · 30-01-2019 01:40PM

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

troyzer wrote: »

This seems to be the way going forward. I'm amazed the IRFU allowed Munster to accumulate so many senior half backs in the first place but you have to think going forward they'll want Munster to be along the same lines as Munster. Two dedicated senior fly halves, one or two senior squad players who can cover and the academy making up the numbers.

In Munster's case you'd imagine that's Carbery/Johnston and then the squad player is Hanrahan who can also cover centre and fullback. Bleyendaal would have to go. He'll be 30 by the end of next season anyway.

The obsession with Munster is getting a bit much now

I do see it playing out as you say above with TB moving on.

Eod100 · 30-01-2019 01:44PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's getting late in the season now for contract extensions and Bleyendaal's future is still up in the air.

I think a lot of the contraxt extensions were done early this season. Think it's usually March when a lot were announced. But yeah don't see too many renewals being made, most players (if not all) out of contract this season will probably be gone.

troyzer · 30-01-2019 01:45PM

Sabre0001 wrote: »

The obsession with Munster is getting a bit much now

I do see it playing out as you say above with TB moving on.

Sigh. I meant Leinster of course. Connacht and Ulster both have three fly halves on the senior roster as well. Munster is the outlier with five.

The Lost Sheep · 30-01-2019 01:46PM

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thomond2006 wrote: »

It's getting late in the season now for contract extensions and Bleyendaal's future is still up in the air.

Not really. Often can be April/May before some get extensions

who_me · 30-01-2019 04:19PM

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

To me it looks like the plan for the future is 10. Carbery, 22. Hanrahan/Johnston, plus one or two reserves in the academy.

Seems a bit light for me. Carbery will be away/rested a fair bit in the season, so at those periods we'll be down to 2 choices - and of those Johnston is still fairly inexperienced - and we'd be in trouble with just one injury.

And - even though I think JJ can be a great player - I'm still not convinced about him as a 10. IMO he always seems to play best when another 10 is on and he switches to centre or fullback.

I'd prefer to keep Bleyendaal for another season if possible, and give Johnston more gametime over the year before letting Tyler go.

thomond2006 · 30-01-2019 04:21PM

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Munster have provided 8 players in the U20s 23 for Friday night, including the starting back three. Open to correction but Munster's contribution to the U20s has been lean in recent seasons.

The Lost Sheep · 30-01-2019 04:47PM

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thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster have provided 8 players in the U20s 23 for Friday night, including the starting back three. Open to correction but Munster's contribution to the U20s has been lean in recent seasons.

Its not really been that lean certainly not as bad as it had been for a while. There was 6/7 who played in last years 6 nations and world championship squad

Jump_In_Jack · 30-01-2019 05:45PM

who_me wrote: »

Seems a bit light for me. Carbery will be away/rested a fair bit in the season, so at those periods we'll be down to 2 choices - and of those Johnston is still fairly inexperienced - and we'd be in trouble with just one injury.

And - even though I think JJ can be a great player - I'm still not convinced about him as a 10. IMO he always seems to play best when another 10 is on and he switches to centre or fullback.

I'd prefer to keep Bleyendaal for another season if possible, and give Johnston more gametime over the year before letting Tyler go.

Carbery will start all the important games if fit.
I would like to see Johnston as backup for Carbery and getting a lot of game time next season, with Scannell and Bleyendaal rotating at 12, and with Hanrahan and Haley rotating at 15.
Any injuries to Carbery and Johnston could see Hanrahan and Bleyendaal covering out-half then.
The unknown for me is what Bleyendaal is asking for, does he want game time at 10, or would he be happy playing more at 12, and is he looking for a lot of money so that Munster couldn't afford to keep him?
There's no doubt Bleyendaal is a useful player if we could hold on to him.

leakyboots · 30-01-2019 05:51PM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Bleyendaal strikes me as one of those players who need time to hit their best. His one nearly full season uninjured with us was a steady improvement as he went on.

He's not like Earls or Sean O'Brien who can come back after a long layoff and hit their straps immediately. Earls seems to get better with each injury!

Hopefully TB will get a bit of a run while the internationals are away and put his case forward for a renewal

jacothelad · 30-01-2019 07:45PM

troyzer wrote: »

Sigh. I meant Leinster of course. Connacht and Ulster both have three fly halves on the senior roster as well. Munster is the outlier with five.

Someone should tell McFarland.

Shefwedfan · 30-01-2019 08:03PM

who_me wrote: »

Seems a bit light for me. Carbery will be away/rested a fair bit in the season, so at those periods we'll be down to 2 choices - and of those Johnston is still fairly inexperienced - and we'd be in trouble with just one injury.

And - even though I think JJ can be a great player - I'm still not convinced about him as a 10. IMO he always seems to play best when another 10 is on and he switches to centre or fullback.

I'd prefer to keep Bleyendaal for another season if possible, and give Johnston more gametime over the year before letting Tyler go.

Are you actually serious? you think it is light?

Max you shoud have 3 for the position
Carberry
JJ or Tyler
Johnson or young player

If Johnson comes good then release a player above and move another young player up in Johnson position.

That is it, anything else is a waste of players and money

The Lost Sheep · 30-01-2019 08:10PM

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Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are you actually serious? you think it is light?

Max you shoud have 3 for the position
Carberry
JJ or Tyler
Johnson or young player

If Johnson comes good then release a player above and move another young player up in Johnson position.

That is it, anything else is a waste of players and money

Id have 4 at a minimum and max of 3 with one who is in around national set up isnt enough when one injuries are so common etc.

troyzer · 30-01-2019 08:11PM

jacothelad wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Sigh. I meant Leinster of course. Connacht and Ulster both have three fly halves on the senior roster as well. Munster is the outlier with five.

Someone should tell McFarland.

Burns, McPhillips and Curtis?

troyzer · 30-01-2019 08:12PM

jacothelad wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Sigh. I meant Leinster of course. Connacht and Ulster both have three fly halves on the senior roster as well. Munster is the outlier with five.

Someone should tell McFarland.

Burns, McPhillips and Curtis?

Shefwedfan · 30-01-2019 08:49PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Id have 4 at a minimum and max of 3 with one who is in around national set up isnt enough when one injuries are so common etc.

Munster squad is bloated already more than any other province.....

Maybe if they make huge money but they are losing money by the truck load, every other province doesn't need 4, why does Munster?

The Lost Sheep · 30-01-2019 08:55PM

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Shefwedfan wrote: »

Munster squad is bloated already more than any other province.....

Maybe if they make huge money but they are losing money by the truck load, every other province doesn't need 4, why does Munster?

Many of them are covering other positions as well and play there as well. Theyre not simply outhalves.
And Money arent losing money by truck load. made surplus in 2017 and tiny loss of 40k in 2018.

troyzer · 30-01-2019 09:03PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Munster squad is bloated already more than any other province.....

Maybe if they make huge money but they are losing money by the truck load, every other province doesn't need 4, why does Munster?

Many of them are covering other positions as well and play there as well. Theyre not simply outhalves.
And Money arent losing money by truck load. made surplus in 2017 and tiny loss of 40k in 2018.

Most other provinces have two, dedicated senior flyhalves and a utility back who can play fly half in addition to a few academy guys.

Leinster lose both of their senior flyhalves to Ireland regularly and don't need four. There is no realistic argument for Munster keeping TB.

jacothelad · 30-01-2019 09:24PM

troyzer wrote: »

Burns, McPhillips and Curtis?

I was being sarcastic. I'm pretty certain that he knows the names o.k. Plus Lowry in fact. The story is that Curtis is looking like being shoehorned in to centre but my remark was really aimed at the coach starting the last match with an injured Burns who was unable to play any real part after about 20 minutes but he wasn't subbed. Ulster effectively played the game with 14 players in a home game that was vital to win. McPhillips played Ulster into the playoff v. Ospreys at the tail end of last season. The more games he got the better he became, now, since the arrival of Burns who is very underwhelming and McFarland, McPhillips has been relegated tp nowhere.

Kirk Van Houten · 30-01-2019 10:15PM

troyzer wrote: »

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Munster squad is bloated already more than any other province.....

Maybe if they make huge money but they are losing money by the truck load, every other province doesn't need 4, why does Munster?

Many of them are covering other positions as well and play there as well. Theyre not simply outhalves.
And Money arent losing money by truck load. made surplus in 2017 and tiny loss of 40k in 2018.

Most other provinces have two, dedicated senior flyhalves and a utility back who can play fly half in addition to a few academy guys.

Leinster lose both of their senior flyhalves to Ireland regularly and don't need four. There is no realistic argument for Munster keeping TB.

As per the official Leinster website from the 17/18 senior squad.
Joey Carbery
Ross Byrne
Johnny Sexton
Noel Reid
Cathal Marsh

5 fly halfs listed. Never let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned rant and pop at Munster.

Burkie1203 · 30-01-2019 10:21PM

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

As per the official Leinster website from the 17/18 senior squad.
Joey Carbery
Ross Byrne
Johnny Sexton
Noel Reid
Cathal Marsh

5 fly halfs listed. Never let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned rant and pop at Munster.

There was the B&I cup last season

Kirk Van Houten · 30-01-2019 10:22PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

As per the official Leinster website from the 17/18 senior squad.
Joey Carbery
Ross Byrne
Johnny Sexton
Noel Reid
Cathal Marsh

5 fly halfs listed. Never let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned rant and pop at Munster.

There was the B&I cup last season

That's senior squad. There's A games every season.

Burkie1203 · 30-01-2019 10:29PM

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

That's senior squad. There's A games every season.

B&I cup had higher number of games. Reid i dont think played 10 at all, he is predominantly a centre. Ross Byrne took most of the gametime when Sexton wasnt available.

Marsh made 8 appearances totalling about an hour and all his other gametime was with the As.

All 5 players are Leinster produced too.

The Lost Sheep · 30-01-2019 10:34PM

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Burkie1203 wrote: »

B&I cup had higher number of games. Reid i dont think played 10 at all, he is predominantly a centre. Ross Byrne took most of the gametime when Sexton wasnt available.

Marsh made 8 appearances totalling about an hour and all his other gametime was with the As.

All 5 players are Leinster produced too.

B+I Cup had 2 extra games based on this seasons celtic cup as in it had extra knock out rounds
Shock horror.... the biggest province with most clubs, most schools can produce more players than anywhere else...

Kirk Van Houten · 30-01-2019 10:34PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

That's senior squad. There's A games every season.

B&I cup had higher number of games. Reid i dont think played 10 at all, he is predominantly a centre. Ross Byrne took most of the gametime when Sexton wasnt available.

Marsh made 8 appearances totalling about an hour and all his other gametime was with the As.

All 5 players are Leinster produced too.

Funny how these are allowable mitigating factors for Leinster players but the facts are they are listed as fly halfs on the Leinster website for the 17/18 season.

Maybe when the poster said "Leinster don't need four" he was just admitting they actually needed five.

troyzer · 31-01-2019 07:22AM

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

As per the official Leinster website from the 17/18 senior squad.
Joey Carbery
Ross Byrne
Johnny Sexton
Noel Reid
Cathal Marsh

5 fly halfs listed. Never let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned rant and pop at Munster.

Cathal Marsh was cut for not being good enough and Carbery was moved by the IRFU precisely because there was too much of a backlog in Leinster for him to get gametime.

I'm not suggesting Munster cut everyone NOW to get down to three flyhalves. Obviously you finish out contracts. But much like Leinster didn't keep five on the books, neither should Munster.

Which means TB has to go. Just like Marsh did.

Squidgy Black · 31-01-2019 07:29AM

Deysel powered va JJ

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

As per the official Leinster website from the 17/18 senior squad.
Joey Carbery
Ross Byrne
Johnny Sexton
Noel Reid
Cathal Marsh

5 fly halfs listed. Never let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned rant and pop at Munster.

If you're counting Noel Reid as a flyhalf then Rory Scannell should be too. He's a centre who can cover 10 in a pinch.

Kirk Van Houten · 31-01-2019 07:33AM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

As per the official Leinster website from the 17/18 senior squad.
Joey Carbery
Ross Byrne
Johnny Sexton
Noel Reid
Cathal Marsh

5 fly halfs listed. Never let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned rant and pop at Munster.

If you're counting Noel Reid as a flyhalf then Rory Scannell should be too. He's a centre who can cover 10 in a pinch.

I'm not counting him as a fly half, Leinster rugby are. It's there on their website.

troyzer · 31-01-2019 07:35AM

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

I'm not counting him as a fly half, Leinster rugby are. It's there on their website.

Noel Reid plays most of his minutes at centre. It doesn't matter what the website says. There's no official position for utility back.

Like I said, none of this matters. Leinster trimmed their roster to three from five. Something Munster needs to do as well.

It also needs to clear some of the ****e out at centre and scrum half.

Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

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