6n 2019 Ireland v England Build Up Thread

Former Former · 27-01-2019 09:45PM

I think if Joe was worried about SOB being undercooked he'd have sent him out against the Scarlets along with McGrath and Kearney.

ionadnapóca · 27-01-2019 10:20PM

Predicted sides.
3 headline grabbers. But in reality I don’t think these 3 players can play v Eng.
Rob - Not match sharp. Or even close.
SO’B - Old SO’B rules don’t apply any longer. Bench v Scot.
Henshaw - Aki has been exceptional

Addison; Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Furlong, Toner, Ryan, POM, VdF, CJ.
Rep: Cronin, McGrath, Porter, Dillane, Murphy, Carbery, Cooney, Larmour.

Daly; Cokanasiga, Slade, Tuilagi, May; Farrell, Youngs; Mako V, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Shields/Wilson, Curry/Wilson, Billy V.
Rep: Luke CD, Moon, Williams, Launchbury, Hughes, Robson, Ford, Ashton.

Btw: long term weather forecast is for cold dry day and gentle breeze.

Zzippy · 27-01-2019 11:04PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I think either Henshaw starts or he doesn’t feature at all. He doesn’t offer the coverage across the back line that Addison and Larmour do. He hasn’t played anywhere other than centre in any meaningful way in years. Same with Aki.

Henshaw is an excellent fullback. When he broke into the Connacht team there I was amazed how well he reads the game and how good his positioning was - especially for a guy just out of school. He doesn't have electric pace, but neither does Kearney - both read the game well enough to be in the right place when needed. It's been a while alright, but he has more experience there than Larmour or Addison, I'd have no qualms with him on the bench. If Kearney is dropped for either of those, Henshaw on the bench is a no-brainer, as he covers 12/13/15 and the starting 15 can move out and cover wing if a wing has to come off.

baas baa · 27-01-2019 11:13PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He won't get through 6 months of rugby.

He wasn't close to "dreadful" in his last 6 Nations. That's a ridiculous overstatement.

The away match against Wales was easily his worst performance I can recall. He earned his place at being one of the undroppables but his performances had slipped massively, we were trying to play a more expansive game but his handling was a real issue.

The Rape of Lucretia · 27-01-2019 11:20PM

Zzippy wrote: »

Henshaw is an excellent fullback. When he broke into the Connacht team there I was amazed how well he reads the game and how good his positioning was - especially for a guy just out of school. He doesn't have electric pace, but neither does Kearney - both read the game well enough to be in the right place when needed. It's been a while alright, but he has more experience there than Larmour or Addison, I'd have no qualms with him on the bench. If Kearney is dropped for either of those, Henshaw on the bench is a no-brainer, as he covers 12/13/15 and the starting 15 can move out and cover wing if a wing has to come off.

Yes.
More than his running, passing, kicking, or tackling, skills or speed, for me, Henshaw's strongest attribute that makes him the player he is, is his reading of the game.

His peripheral vision, reading of his team mates intentions, positioning in attack and defence, and running lines, are terrific and stand to him in whatever position he is playing. Joe has never really been in the position with him of having ample centre options, and no fb options, to make it worth while playing him there. So it remains. Without some time at 15 he is unlikely to be a bench option.

Full back is the most exposed position in this respect of getting reads wrong and be left looking silly. Its what makes Bobster a world class fb too even though the criticisms of his limitations in his counterattacking running are valid. Henshaw, did indeed seem to be a born 15 as you say, and at that time, I saw his future clearly as a fb, so natural did he seem to take to it.

I think Ireland just needs him more in the centre these days, where even Kearney-less we have a variety of viable options for the one shirt.

Jump_In_Jack · 27-01-2019 11:26PM

My fantasy selection:

Healy-Cronin-Furlong
Ryan-Toner
O’Mahony-Stander-Van der Flier
Murray-Sexton
Stockdale-Aki-Ringrose-Earls
Larmour

Scannell-Kilcoyne-Ryan-Dillane-Murphy-Cooney-Carbery-Addison

Best, O’Brien, Henshaw, Kearney, McGrath, Porter, Roux, are all likely to play a part instead of my fantasy selection.

Zzippy · 28-01-2019 12:03AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Y

I think Ireland just needs him more in the centre these days, where even Kearney-less we have a variety of viable options for the one shirt.

If Aki gets the nod at 12 and Larmour/Addison/Conway/Earls get the 15 shirt Henshaw is still a great bench option to cover both. He covers both better than any of the above.

The Rape of Lucretia · 28-01-2019 12:51AM

Zzippy wrote: »

If Aki gets the nod at 12 and Larmour/Addison/Conway/Earls get the 15 shirt Henshaw is still a great bench option to cover both. He covers both better than any of the above.

I'm not really disagreeing. It just doesnt seem to be a Joe thing though.
There is no way Earls is in the 15 thinking anymore btw.

And a missing Rob would cement Henshaw starting. He will only not start if Rob is starting, or they are both injured.

28-01-2019 03:33AM

I've heard Henshaw has been training at 15

troyzer · 28-01-2019 11:18AM

SOB off the bench just makes too much sense. He's clearly not entirely match fit. If you start him, then VdF probably drops out of the 23. Then you'll have Nordi on the bench.

If Stander or POM go down in the first five minutes, do we really think SOB would be able to go the full 80 in what's bound to be a physical onslaught?

No way. Bring him on as the most depressing impact sub any team could ever face.

Aki starts over Henshaw. He's the incumbent and he's done nothing to lose the 12 jersey. Henshaw has to earn it back and I think it's a good signal to the rest of the team that you won't be dropped if you're playing well.

There's an argument for an Aki/Henshaw midfield and Ringrose at 23.

Clegg · 28-01-2019 11:48AM

There's no argument for a centre pairing without Ringrose imo. He's the best 13 we have by miles.

troyzer · 28-01-2019 11:51AM

Clegg wrote: »

There's no argument for a centre pairing without Ringrose imo. He's the best 13 we have by miles.

He's the best 13, I agree.

But horses for courses could come into play. Tuilagi has about 20kg on Ringrose.

28-01-2019 11:55AM

troyzer wrote: »

He's the best 13, I agree.

But horses for courses could come into play. Tuilagi has about 20kg on Ringrose.

And Ringrose is a better player by a country mile. Size is not an issue.

PhlegmyMoses · 28-01-2019 12:00PM

Ringrose has incredible tackle technique and decision making for what to do when faced with a bigger man. I would have farmore worries about Aki and Henshaw defensively on the outside than with Ringrose. His defence is outstanding.

He is also more capable than any other centre we have of making something out of nothing with either a run or a kick. He has quietly become a world class operator and should be close to first name on the teamsheet.

troyzer · 28-01-2019 12:00PM

AdamD wrote: »

And Ringrose is a better player by a country mile. Size is not an issue.

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

He's a magnificent player but for some context, Tuilagi is exactly the same listed height and weight of Cian Healy.

You can't realistically expect Ringrose to play 80 minutes without giving up a few line breaks in such an uneven physical match.

troyzer · 28-01-2019 12:03PM

troyzer wrote: »

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

He's a magnificent player but for some context, Tuilagi is exactly the same listed height and weight of Cian Healy.

You can't realistically expect Ringrose to play 80 minutes without giving up a few line breaks in such an uneven physical match.

Just to head off any accusations of trolling or favouritism, I only said the below thing a few weeks ago in the Leinster thread:

troyzer wrote: »

At what point can we realistically start talking about Ringrose as a superior player to BOD?

He's already a better defender. He doesn't produce the highlight reel trickplays but he's still an elite running threat.

I adore Ringrose. I just don't think he matches up well against an outside centre who is so much larger than him.

28-01-2019 12:07PM

troyzer wrote: »

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

He's a magnificent player but for some context, Tuilagi is exactly the same listed height and weight of Cian Healy.

You can't realistically expect Ringrose to play 80 minutes without giving up a few line breaks in such an uneven physical match.

If England's tactics consist of repeatedly running in a straight line we'll have no worries come the end of the game.

Podge_irl · 28-01-2019 12:08PM

troyzer wrote: »

It is if Tuilagi runs at Ringrose in a straight line repeatedly off first phase.

Sounds ludicrously easy to defend to be honest.

I think Ringrose is the first choice of all the centres, the only question is who partners him.

bilston · 28-01-2019 12:09PM

troyzer wrote: »

There's an argument for an Aki/Henshaw midfield and Ringrose at 23.

No there isn't!

Ringrose is one of the first names on the teamsheet

troyzer · 28-01-2019 12:09PM

AdamD wrote: »

If England's tactics consist of repeatedly running in a straight line we'll have no worries come the end of the game.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Sounds ludicrously easy to defend to be honest.

I think Ringrose is the first choice of all the centres, the only question is who partners him.

I hope you're both right.

If it were up to me, I'd start him but have Henshaw wearing the 23 jersey just in case.

bilston · 28-01-2019 12:11PM

Tuilagi didn't exactly run over the top of Addison the other week and he isn't as good a defender as Ringrose

28-01-2019 12:18PM

Wegians89 · 28-01-2019 12:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've heard Henshaw has been training at 15

Joe has said he wanted to see him there against the likes of Fiji, but injure stopped that

PhlegmyMoses · 28-01-2019 01:24PM

Wegians89 wrote: »

Joe has said he wanted to see him there against the likes of Fiji, but injure stopped that

I think he would be class there with a season under his belt. Like a bigger Rob Kearney and probably more resolute in the tackle. But he has to start at 12 for Leinster so it ends those plans. Bobby K passing the fullback mantle to Bobby H would be class

Clegg · 28-01-2019 01:38PM

Henshaw hasn't had a run of games at fullback in years. I think he got maybe 20 minutes there for Leisnter after an injury caused a backline reshuffle midgame. He looked decent, but that's not enough to throw him straight in for Ireland. It's not going to happen any time soon. He's a brilliant inside centre. That's his position now.

Zzippy · 28-01-2019 02:18PM

Clegg wrote: »

Henshaw hasn't had a run of games at fullback in years. I think he got maybe 20 minutes there for Leisnter after an injury caused a backline reshuffle midgame. He looked decent, but that's not enough to throw him straight in for Ireland. It's not going to happen any time soon. He's a brilliant inside centre. That's his position now.

He's a big, hard running, direct inside centre. His distribution is ok. His defence is brilliant. His kicking is decent but under-utilised. He doesn't make a lot of line breaks as he's not an elusive type of runner. 12 is his position now, but it's not his best position, nor would I consider him a brilliant centre. He's perfect for Leinster and Joe's gameplan, but if he was playing in NZ he would be playing 15 IMO.

Burkie1203 · 28-01-2019 02:41PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've heard Henshaw has been training at 15

Was that just for when Eddie Jones had his drone flying overhead

troyzer · 28-01-2019 02:43PM

TOH for fullback?

Wegians89 · 28-01-2019 03:00PM

troyzer wrote: »

TOH for fullback?

Wouldn’t start him there for Connacht atm never mind Ireland

28-01-2019 03:01PM

Wegians89 wrote: »

Wouldn’t start him there for Connacht atm never mind Ireland

Sooooo Leader for fullback!!

6n 2019 Ireland v England Build Up Thread

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