Car bomb has exploded in Derry City Centre

FrancieBrady · 24-01-2019 11:37AM

Aegir wrote: »

so you're saying the PIRA didn't have an objective of destroying the economy of Northern Ireland?

Of course they did.

It was an artificial economy, structured to favour Unionists. Not anymore though as a result of the GFA. (unless you turn crim and rip off the hand that feeds you, if you get my drift)

citytillidie · 24-01-2019 11:46AM

maccored wrote: »

ah so it was all them nasty nationalists' fault. bit obvious you seem to think it was one sided.

Good forbid those people in the 60's wanted to better themselves and get out of living in slums like the Springtown camp in Derry where families where living in the old US Army huts with no running water, electric or heat because that is what the Unionist government thought that is all they are worth. When they did try and march for rights only to get beat up by Loyalist groups and the police then later the British Army what else do you think would happen

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 11:49AM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

first threats, and now insults.
Leo should put you in charge of the negotiations. :rolleyes:

You're underestimating the whole situation in NI and I can only advise you to look closer and also a bit deeper into matters cos what is on the surface can quickly reveal itself as being not the way it shines.

I don't know whether you've been on other Irish boards than this one. Some have an extra NI Forum and when you read what goes on there, it's more than obvious that the real hatred is still there to perceive.

Frustrating as it might be, it's not just the older ones who grew up during the Troubles who are running in CNR vs PUL circles, it's also younger ones who fall for the same trap. They are having their threads there about various topics but it all goes round and round about the very same 'point scoring game' CNR vs PUL.

It doesn't comes from nowhere that this NI Forum I was talking about got the nickname 'madhouse' by other posters on this other board. But they are both proud of that and persuing this game day in day out for years. They even started their own boards a couple of years ago, so that they can have their own 'playground' too, in addition to the old one.

Northern Ireland is a very sensitive and therefore also complex matter to talk about and I have experienced myself how quickly a post not meant to be offensive but objective is twisted to make it offensive by some of them, no matter whether Unionist/Loyalist or Republican/Nationalist.

Such games played on internet boards is something less dangerous in compare to what happened recently out there in the real world. But as you might know yourself from other matters it takes little for some to radicalise themselves.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 11:50AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually it's the people of Northern Ireland being pulled out of the EU against their will.

Quite, 'thanks' to the DUP and the Tories. The same applies for Scotland.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 11:54AM

Sureal wrote: »

Why do people forget that Northern Ireland wouldn't exist without the threat of violence from Britain? The terms of the treaty had to be agreed to or Britain would unleash “immediate and terrible war” within 3 days! Then, the Good Friday Agreement was also agreed to under the threat of violence. Loyalists would spread their murderous campaign to every corner of Ireland unless it was backed.

It's been the Unionists of NI who always threatened violence in the first place right from the start of the Home Rule legislation in 1912 and that continued up to the GFA. It was them who threatened Britain with violence and not vice versa, but due to these threats, the UK govt was always held in ransom to respond to the 'requests' of the NI Stormont Regime govt. This changed with Tony Blair as PM who was talking plain to them Unionists as well as the Shinners.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 11:57AM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

these idiots would exist if the Brits never set foot on this island.
criminals will always try find a reason to justify their criminality.

next you'll be telling us it's the Brits fault we have joy-riders and kiddie molesters :rolleyes:

Totally wrong, without the Plantation in the 17C they wouldn't be in Ireland at all.

steddyeddy · 24-01-2019 12:05PM

Aegir wrote: »

so you're saying the PIRA didn't have an objective of destroying the economy of Northern Ireland?

Without a doubt it was their objective. The reality was that the state and loyalist paramilitaries aided them on that.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:06PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

Excellent plan Frankie.
will you tell Arlene, or can i?

and there was me thinking the North was full of PTSD aflictees.
how i could have reached such a crazy conclusion ...?

The more you write the more you expose yourself as one who has no clue about NI at all and it is all very superficial what is to read in your posts.

It appears that the bigger picture is really lost on you, maybe you never bothered to look at it in the first place. Because of that, you don't understand what he's talking about. But I do.

24-01-2019 12:08PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Good forbid those people in the 60's wanted to better themselves and get out of living in slums like the Springtown camp in Derry where families where living in the old US Army huts with no running water, electric or heat because that is what the Unionist government thought that is all they are worth. When they did try and march for rights only to get beat up by Loyalist groups and the police then later the British Army what else do you think would happen

fair enough, but when commenting on the economy of Northern Ireland, especially Derry, you can't ignore the troubles and the reason why no one wanted to invest there.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't take it too seriously. Where's My Jumper was here specifically to jeer and feign not caring. He/she cares a great deal. It's fun outing people like that.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I have the impression that he/she is just winding up posters but has a very marginal knowledge about NI which contributes much to his/her own embarrassing.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:12PM

circadian wrote: »

Edward Carson had it sussed out.

“What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power.”

Hence the 'threat of violence culture' of the Unionists.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:14PM

Aegir wrote: »

In fairness, a terrorist organisation spent thirty years trying its hardest to **** it’s economy and scare off any form of investment

When it comes to that term, I see the UVF, UDA, UFF and all the other Unionist/Loyalist murderers as the same like the Provos.

24-01-2019 12:15PM

Thomas_IV wrote: »

When it comes to that term, I see the UVF, UDA, UFF and all the other Unionist/Loyalist murderers as the same like the Provos.

so would I, but none of then had the stated objective of ****ing Northern Ireland's economy

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:18PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They didn't realise it was easier to do it by setting up 'milk the system' schemes and property scams or even fleecing charities for cheap hols. :rolleyes:

Have a look at living conditions and prospects for northern Irish residents before any conflict began. In other words take the blinkers off and see what the true story is. Northern Ireland will always be populated by second and third class citizens if it remains in the UK.

You might have a look into this article:

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/warning-brexit-will-make-irish-passport-holders-in-the-north-second-class-citizens-37742404.html

Warning Brexit will make Irish passport holders in the North 'second class citizens'

Your remark isn't quite off the mark.

steddyeddy · 24-01-2019 12:18PM

Aegir wrote: »

so would I, but none of then had the stated objective of ****ing Northern Ireland's economy

No not their stated objective but it was the reality. For example their stated objective was killing the IRA. In reality they mostly killed Catholic civilians.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:19PM

Aegir wrote: »

so would I, but none of then had the stated objective of ****ing Northern Ireland's economy

Well, that's right, but this stated objective was in my opinion nothing else than some 'excuse' for going on murder campaigns.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:21PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

No not their stated objective but it was the reality. For example their stated objective was killing the IRA. In reality they mostly killed Catholic civilians.

Plenty of Catholic civilians killed by the Provo bombing campaigns as well as they didn't care who was passing by when a car bomb got off.

Patrick2010 · 24-01-2019 12:27PM

According to this link the IRA were responsible for nearly half of the deaths in Norther Ireland and killed plenty of catholics

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html#community

Organisation Total Killings Protestant Catholic Not from NI IRA 1696 (49%) 790 338 568 UVF 396 (11%) 89 265 42 British Army 299 (9%) 32 258 9 (unknown loyalist) 212 (6%) 50 212 7 UFF 149 (4%) 17 132 0 INLA 110 (3%) 55 33 22 UDA 102 (3%) 41 58 3 (unknown) 77 27 42 8 RUC 56 9 44 3 Official IRA 51 7 24 20 PAF (loyalist) 37 0 37 0 'Real' IRA 29 11 13 5 (others) 117 27 87 3

circadian · 24-01-2019 12:27PM

Ultimately the mess falls squarely at Unionisms feet. Those in power had the opportunity to not embrace greed, hatred and bigotry but they chose the easy option. It was inevitable that the Civil Rights Movement would arrive at some point and when it did, the Unionists in power had another opportunity to open dialogue, afford equal voting rights, equal civil liberties but instead they chose greed, hatred and bigotry once again.

While I would never condone the violence that ensued, you can at least understand that desperate situations will cause people to do desperate things. When peacefully protesting for basic democratic rights people get beaten down, that will only escalate the problem.

Unionism was dragged kicking and screaming to the table with the peace talks and the GFA yet their behaviour has barely changed. The greed, the bigotry is still there in full view. Cash for ash, using taxpayers money for holidays, first class flights and the likes of Gregory Campbell in office. Refusing to sit in government as a result of corruption. Now they have Brexit and the impending hard border and throwing the GFA out the window. If anything kicks off again, the Unionists, once again, have only themselves to blame.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 12:37PM

circadian wrote: »

Ultimately the mess falls squarely at Unionisms feet. Those in power had the opportunity to not embrace greed, hatred and bigotry but they chose the easy option. It was inevitable that the Civil Rights Movement would arrive at some point and when it did, the Unionists in power had another opportunity to open dialogue, afford equal voting rights, equal civil liberties but instead they chose greed, hatred and bigotry once again.

While I would never condone the violence that ensued, you can at least understand that desperate situations will cause people to do desperate things. When peacefully protesting for basic democratic rights people get beaten down, that will only escalate the problem.

Unionism was dragged kicking and screaming to the table with the peace talks and the GFA yet their behaviour has barely changed. The greed, the bigotry is still there in full view. Cash for ash, using taxpayers money for holidays, first class flights and the likes of Gregory Campbell in office. Refusing to sit in government as a result of corruption. Now they have Brexit and the impending hard border and throwing the GFA out the window. If anything kicks off again, the Unionists, once again, have only themselves to blame.

One shouldn't forget about the former NI PM Terence O'Neill who would rather liked to yield on such demands but he was ousted by the radical hardliners within his own party the UUP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_O%27Neill

If it wasn't for them, the Troubles might had not taken place. But that time wasn't for the moderate, it was for the hardliners and so it went. Therefore it is more important than ever to keep the hardliners from power, but as one can see by the UK govt, since 2017 the hardliners have once again gained influence in the UK govt.

I once had the autobiography of Terence O'Neill written by himself and it was an interesting reading. IMV, he's the only one Unionist who was a good man, an upright one and human. That can't be said about the many of his fellow Unionists of his day and of today.

steddyeddy · 24-01-2019 01:24PM

Aegir wrote: »

In fairness, a terrorist organisation spent thirty years trying its hardest to **** it’s economy and scare off any form of investment

Do you know what Aegir? You spend countless threads telling everyone that they blame everything on the British yet you blame the economy of Northern Ireland on a single group. Ireland had 800 years of Anglo-Saxon occupation and supposedly we should ignore any effect that had but 30 years of violence in Northern Ireland from one group (ignoring the rest) is to blame for everything wrong in the North. See the hypocrisy?

According to you the following played no part in NI's poor performance relative to Ireland's

Loyalist terrorism
State sponsored discrimination of anyone not white anglo-saxon
Little investment in the Northern Irish state.

The actual listed reasons why Northern Ireland went from being an industrial powershouse to an economic basket case is multi-faceted. It’s a lot poorer than the neighbouring republic for several reasons:

Northern Ireland was a sectarian state prior to the troubles. Catholics were discriminated against in terms of housing, education and jobs (particularly civil service jobs). This led to the Sean McBride principles which dictated that some American companies would only invest in equal oppertunity companies.

The troubles where loyalist and republican paramilitaries launched thirty years of war doubtless made investors, including state investors, wary of investing.
A very large percentage of Northern Ireland’s workforce work in the civil service.

Flags, bonfires and tribalism have kept a significant proportion of Northern Ireland as an unattractive place to invest.

Finally Brexit is going to cripple the North’s economy. It will lose access to the single market and tariffs will likely be put on any trades it does with the Republic Of Ireland. For instance farmers in the North will lose out on grants that farmers in the Rep of Ireland will get. There’s no upside to this.

24-01-2019 01:39PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do you know what Aegir? You spend countless threads telling everyone that they blame everything on the British yet you blame the economy of Northern Ireland on a single group. Ireland had 800 years of Anglo-Saxon occupation and supposedly we should ignore any effect that had but 30 years of violence in Northern Ireland from one group (ignoring the rest) is to blame for everything wrong in the North. See the hypocrisy?

According to you the following played no part in NI's poor performance relative to Ireland's
Loyalist terrorism

State sponsored discrimination of anyone not white anglo-saxon

Little investment in the Northern Irish state.

The actual listed reasons why Northern Ireland went from being an industrial powershouse to an economic basket case is multi-faceted. It’s a lot poorer than the neighbouring republic for several reasons:
Northern Ireland was a sectarian state prior to the troubles. Catholics were discriminated against in terms of housing, education and jobs (particularly civil service jobs). This led to the Sean McBride principles which dictated that some American companies would only invest in equal oppertunity companies.

The troubles where loyalist and republican paramilitaries launched thirty years of war doubtless made investors, including state investors, wary of investing.

A very large percentage of Northern Ireland’s workforce work in the civil service.

Flags, bonfires and tribalism have kept a significant proportion of Northern Ireland as an unattractive place to invest.

Finally Brexit is going to cripple the North’s economy. It will lose access to the single market and tariffs will likely be put on any trades it does with the Republic Of Ireland. For instance farmers in the North will lose out on grants that farmers in the Rep of Ireland will get. There’s no upside to this.

but but but what about........

circadian · 24-01-2019 01:40PM

Aegir wrote: »

but but but what about........

Not really though, is it? The post actually explains quite well the reasons for the state of Northern Ireland.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 01:48PM

Aegir wrote: »

but but but what about........

He's right in every point he was raising.

24-01-2019 01:50PM

circadian wrote: »

Not really though, is it? The post actually explains quite well the reasons for the state of Northern Ireland.

Only one organisation had a deliberate strategy of ****ing up the economy in Northern Ireland, did they not?

PIRA Green Book wrote:

The strategy is:

1. A War of attrition against enemy personnel which is aimed at causing as many casualties and deaths as possible so as to create a demand from their people at home for their withdrawal.

2. A bombing campaign aimed at making the enemy's financial interest in our country unprofitable while at the same time curbing long term financial investment in our country.

3. To make the Six Counties as at present and for the past several years ungovernable except by colonial military rule.

4. To sustain the war and gain support for its end by National and International propaganda and publicity campaigns.

5. By defending the war of liberation by punishing criminals, collaborators and informers

24-01-2019 01:51PM

Thomas_IV wrote: »

He's right in every point he was raising.

and my point about a terrorist organisation with the objective of ****ing up the economy wasn't?

Wheres Me Jumper? · 24-01-2019 01:58PM

Thomas_IV wrote: »

Plenty of Catholic civilians killed by the Provo bombing campaigns as well as they didn't care who was passing by when a car bomb got off.

if you haven't already, you should check out a book called Killing Rage by Eamon Collins.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 02:01PM

Aegir wrote: »

and my point about a terrorist organisation with the objective of ****ing up the economy wasn't?

That is right as well. In fact both is right.

Thomas_IV · 24-01-2019 02:02PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

if you haven't already, you should check out a book called Killing Rage by Eamon Collins.

Thanks but I really had had enough of literature on that subject and every book about the Troubles is sickening as the whole Troubles were itself.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 24-01-2019 02:08PM

Thomas_IV wrote: »

Thanks but I really had had enough of literature on that subject and every book about the Troubles is sickening as the whole Troubles were itself.

strange then that you're contributing to a thread with CAR BOMB & Derry in the title.

Car bomb has exploded in Derry City Centre

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