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Car bomb has exploded in Derry City Centre

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    #332
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    I disagree. I think we should still be shooting no border... I think its the first time in history Ireland has the UK by the balls.

    Which sums up the approach nicely. We’ve got them by the balls, ok we’re jumping off a cliff together, but we’ve still got them by the balls.


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    #333
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Aegir wrote: »
    Which sums up the approach nicely. We’ve got them by the balls, ok we’re jumping off a cliff together, but we’ve still got them by the balls.
    How is Ireland jumping of a cliff with them? We will remain nicely in the EU custom Union :)


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    #334
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    How is Ireland jumping of a cliff with them? We will remain nicely in the EU custom Union :)

    you're not Leo's economic advisor by any chance?

    Oh dear!


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    #335
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    How is Ireland jumping of a cliff with them? We will remain nicely in the EU custom Union :)

    not without a border


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    #336
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Aegir wrote: »
    not without a border

    The border is the UK's governments choice. It it is really up to the UK on how they leave. The EU can make it difficult for them my not agreeing a deal with them if they put a border on Ireland and thus forcing them into a nasty recession if they leave with no deal. The choice is the Uk's.


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    #337
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    The border is the UK's governments choice. It it is really up to the UK on how they leave. The EU can make it difficult for them my not agreeing a deal with them if they put a border on Ireland and thus forcing them into a nasty recession if they leave with no deal. The choice is the Uk's.

    here you go, read Dan O'Brien's take on this.

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/dan-obrien-if-we-dont-impose-border-checks-after-nodeal-brexit-it-will-undermine-our-place-in-the-eus-single-market-37505101.html


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    #338
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Aegir wrote: »
    not without a border

    Jesus mate your posts are indicative of the type of fundamental ignorance British people have of the EU. Ireland will still be in the single market with or without a border.


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    #339
    Wheres Me Jumper?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Jesus mate your posts are indicative of the type of fundamental ignorance British people have of the EU. Ireland will still be in the single market with or without a border.

    sure we'll be grand. we'll sort it out. and besides like meself most of us never travel up there anyhow.:D


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    #340
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,907 ✭✭✭circadian


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    sure we'll be grand. we'll sort it out. and besides like meself most of us never travel up there anyhow.:D

    I don't think you're in a position to speak for others, especially those who live and commute across the border daily.


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    #341
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Jesus mate your posts are indicative of the type of fundamental ignorance British people have of the EU. Ireland will still be in the single market with or without a border.

    Yeah, why have borders around a single market, what could possibly go wrong?


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    #342
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,030 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Jesus mate your posts are indicative of the type of fundamental ignorance British people have of the EU. Ireland will still be in the single market with or without a border.

    I think the future will study utterances on threads like this in wonderment of the deluded allegiances of extinct northern Irish 'unionsts'.

    Honestly, I think the DUP are leading their people right out of the union, and how they adjust on the other side is going to be so, so tough. Because honestly, they have boxed themselves into a corner through the Anglo Irish Agreement - the Good Friday Agreement and now on through a shambolic Brexit. They will be the most isolated political entity on these islands by the end.


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    #343
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    I think an important thing to note is that the current 'soft border' on the island has already cost the Irish economy a countless amount over the decades. Even up to present day all the border counties lag behind the rest of the country.

    A hard or soft border will cost the Irish economy regardless. Aiming for as soft a border as possible is the only option Ireland has.

    The politics of this are also at play here. If Fine Gael are seen as weak on this issue then Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein will cash in big time in electoral support. Enough so that they will be put out of government for a very long time.


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    #344
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I think the future will study utterances on threads like this in wonderment of the deluded allegiances of extinct northern Irish 'unionsts'.

    Honestly, I think the DUP are leading their people right out of the union, and how they adjust on the other side is going to be so, so tough. Because honestly, they have boxed themselves into a corner through the Anglo Irish Agreement - the Good Friday Agreement and now on through a shambolic Brexit. They will be the most isolated political entity on these islands by the end.

    What in the name of Jesus are you on about now?


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    #345
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,030 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Aegir wrote: »
    What in the name of Jesus are you on about now?

    Your delusions about the state of the UK and their position. Quite fabulous really. And as others have pointed out, adequate explanation of why we are where we are.


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    #346
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »
    sure we'll be grand. we'll sort it out. and besides like meself most of us never travel up there anyhow.:D

    I don't understand your post to be honest?


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    #347
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Your delusions about the state of the UK and their position. Quite fabulous really. And as others have pointed out, adequate explanation of why we are where we are.

    so no actual points then Francie, just go for the poster with some tired old rhetoric because you are out of your depth?

    Tell me, how will the EU maintain the integrity of the single market with no border?


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    #348
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Aegir wrote: »
    Yeah, why have borders around a single market, what could possibly go wrong?

    I don't know what could go wrong? The only the that's went wrong is a couple of idiots voted to leave the biggest single market in the world.


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    #349
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    A few facts

    1.) A no deal Brexit will lead to a hard border.

    2.) The EU won't do a deal with the UK that involves a hard border.

    3.) It is ultimately the UK choice whether a hard border exists in Ireland... Nothing the EU or Ireland can do on the border issue if the UK wants to leave without a deal.

    4.) The Uk economy will hit a nasty recession if they leave the EU with a no deal.

    So basically the Uk have backed themselves into a corner. Either except a backstop border or prepare for a nasty recession.


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    #350
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,030 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Aegir wrote: »
    so no actual points then Francie, just go for the poster with some tired old rhetoric because you are out of your depth?

    My point was the GFA was stopping the UK from getting the Brexit it wants. You responded by saying that was wrong...when before our eyes the UK is in turmoil about what to do about the backstop.
    Tell me, how will the EU maintain the integrity of the single market with no border?

    It was always clear to me that in the event of a crash out there would be a border, because nobody would trust a UK desperate to survive.
    We now have an official expression of the UK's fear of leaving without a deal, i.e. Dominic Grieve's amendment to take No Deal out of the equation.

    If that passes (and it looks to have huge support then we are left with:
    1. Observe the GFA and take Theresa's deal and try to mend the UK's reputation after firefighting disgruntled Brexiteers.
    2. Cancel the whole sorry mess and Remain and try to mend the UK's reputation after firefighting disgruntled Brexiteers.


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    #351
    PistolsAtDawn
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Because it was a terrorist attack that put the lives of innocent people at risk!

    Innocents die every day all over the world, both you and I will both be dead sometime within the next X years.

    Why are you more concerned about potential harm to innocents from a terrorist attack in Derry than you are about the famine currently killing millions in Yemen for instance?

    People change, things go wrong, sh!t happens .. life goes on.


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    #352
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Aegir wrote: »

    no deal is a disaster for everyone.

    tell the british government that, not us.


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    #353
    PistolsAtDawn
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    mikhail wrote: »
    Are you for real?

    Yes ... next question please


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    #354
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Meanwhile in Derry,some of the mail wasn't delivered today due to the post van hijacking.:(


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    #355
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Berserker wrote: »
    London has NI at the forefront of it's thoughts these days.

    Yeah, like having a big thorn in your toe.
    Aegir wrote: »
    How would you class this post, by the way?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109140652&postcount=25

    Really left an impression on, you didn't it? Does it bother you?


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    #356
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Aegir wrote: »

    Tell me, how will the EU maintain the integrity of the single market with no border?

    It doesn't maintain the single market without borders. The only people saying it can maintain it without a border are Brits who have zero clue about trading law.


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    #357
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Aegir wrote: »
    so despite spending the past year pontificating about Brexit, you haven't once heard about Article 50 of the Treaty for the European Union? The section of the treaty (sometimes referred to as the Lisbon Treaty) which allows for a country to legally withdraw from the european union if they so wish?

    The UK isn't reneging on the Lisbon Treaty, it is fully complying with it.

    So, you're wrong there Seamus

    1/10 must try harder



    The UK government has repeated time and time again that they don't want a hard border in Ireland and will do all it can to prevent it.

    There is nothing in the GFA that says that there can't be a hard (ish) border though.

    I agree, it puts pressure on the GFA, but in no way oes this constitute the UK reneging on it.

    2/10 good effort, but wrong.



    Hey A. This gets a bit complex but the premise is that the GFA and the EU are intertwined.

    The Good Friday Agreement is made up of two parts – the Multi-party agreement between most of the political parties (but not the DUP) and the British-Irish Agreement between the two governments.

    This second Agreement is the international treaty between sovereign states, registered with the UN. The British-Irish Agreement’s function is to uphold the multi-party agreement. So changing the treaty would logically require a new multi-party agreement.

    In terms of Brexit impact Strand 2 is most significant. It sets out that the North-South Ministerial Council, which promotes all-island cooperation, will “consider the European Union dimension of relevant matters, including the implementation of EU policies and programmes…”

    Article 27 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, states: “A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty.” So Britain cannot, under international law, set aside the GFA because it voted for Brexit.

    Also the British and Irish government have to act with rigorous impartiality with regard to Northern Ireland. A coalition with lets say the DUP or Sinn Fein puts that impartiality in direct contravention of the GFA.


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    #358
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    It doesn't maintain the single market without borders. The only people saying it can maintain it without a border are Brits who have zero clue about trading law.

    yes Eddy, only idiots think that a single market needs some form of external border......
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Jesus mate your posts are indicative of the type of fundamental ignorance British people have of the EU. Ireland will still be in the single market with or without a border.
    ittakestwo wrote: »
    How is Ireland jumping of a cliff with them? We will remain nicely in the EU custom Union :)


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    #359
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Aegir wrote: »
    yes Eddy, only idiots think that a single market needs some form of external border......

    Aegir I don't get your posts at all. Who is saying the single market doesn't need a border? Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson as far as I can see? Have you been on the cooking sherry?


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    #360
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,030 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Aegir wrote: »
    yes Eddy, only idiots think that a single market needs some form of external border......

    If Grieves amendment gets through it will be moot. There will be a border in the Irish sea or no border at all. Simple as.


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    #361
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Hey A. This gets a bit complex but the premise is that the GFA and the EU are intertwined.
    it does, but my take on that is that it is part of the pre amble that outlines why the parties have reached this agreement, not actually part of the agreement itself.
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The Good Friday Agreement is made up of two parts – the Multi-party agreement between most of the political parties (but not the DUP) and the British-Irish Agreement between the two governments.

    This second Agreement is the international treaty between sovereign states, registered with the UN. The British-Irish Agreement’s function is to uphold the multi-party agreement. So changing the treaty would logically require a new multi-party agreement.
    no one is changing the treaty, only that the position of one of the parties has changed.
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    In terms of Brexit impact Strand 2 is most significant. It sets out that the North-South Ministerial Council, which promotes all-island cooperation, will “consider the European Union dimension of relevant matters, including the implementation of EU policies and programmes…”

    Article 27 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, states: “A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty.” So Britain cannot, under international law, set aside the GFA because it voted for Brexit.

    and there is no suggestion that the GFA is being put aside. The EU dimension of relevant matters will need to be carefully managed I guess, but I'm not sure exactly what European Union dimension actually means. Provided the UK gives any rights EU citizens would have to the people of the North and still allows for cases to go to the ECHR (which it will, because this isn;t affected in any way) then the UK Government can still continue with its obligations. The jey element to this is the common travel area, which it was agreed a long time ago would continue whatever happens with Brexit.
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Also the British and Irish government have to act with rigorous impartiality with regard to Northern Ireland. A coalition with lets say the DUP or Sinn Fein puts that impartiality in direct contravention of the GFA.

    I disagree there. We could have a Sinn Fein government, or President (and pigs could grow wings and fly) and as long as the government carries out its duties with rigorous impartiality, then the GFA has not been broken.


This discussion has been closed.
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