Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Evd-Burner · 13-01-2019 06:49PM

alexmalalex wrote: »

Why do you folks always point to the public sector pay increases during this period versus the excessive tax cuts?

You were not belly aching about tax cuts then...and I suspect you won't now.

Nobody disputes bench marking was a crazy idea, but folks on your side of the argument never mention all the tax cuts + the huge bonuses enjoyed by the private sector. Public sector workers on the average wage couldn;t afford a house in the Celtic tiger, and they sure as hell can't afford one now.

Which tax cuts?

My tax was reduced by less than 260 for the entire year, tax cuts the the nurses will also get!

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 06:51PM

alexmalalex wrote: »

Why do you folks always point to the public sector pay increases during this period versus the excessive tax cuts?

You were not belly aching about tax cuts then...and I suspect you won't now.

Nobody disputes bench marking was a crazy idea, but folks on your side of the argument never mention all the tax cuts + the huge bonuses enjoyed by the private sector. Public sector workers on the average wage couldn;t afford a house in the Celtic tiger, and they sure as hell can't afford one now.

Agreed . There is an agenda pursued by many high earning folk against increases in public service wages, despite any legitimate arguments put forward to prove that in some areas it is necessary to attract and reward essential staff . However the same people crib and give out if they have to wait for a doctor or nurse to come and look after them or their families, or if any mention of paying higher taxes to pay for services .
And our government has ignored the difficulties of many thousands of workers in Dublin, who are increasingly being oppressed by pay not keeping in tandem with high rents and prices in the Capital and some of the other cities .It is about time that this was addressed in the form of a Dublin / City weighting.

backspin. · 13-01-2019 06:54PM

Qualifying as a nurse is not the same as qualifying as a physio or an OT. There is no pay for student physios or OT's as far as I know and jobs are harder to come by. You are quite likely to get a job within driving distance from your home town anywhere in Ireland as a nurse The same can not be said if you qualify as an OT or a Physio.

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 06:57PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

You make a very good point.

Fix the overcrowding first, they get paid enough for what they do.

Do they?
There's a serious lack of nurses in this country.

If it was any other industry the wages would be through the roof to encourage talent to apply.

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 07:00PM

backspin. wrote: »

Qualifying as a nurse is not the same as qualifying as a physio or an OT. There is no pay for student physios or OT's as far as I know and jobs are harder to come by. You are quite likely to get a job within driving distance from your home town anywhere in Ireland as a nurse The same can not be said if you qualify as an OT or a Physio.

Yes, becoming a nurse is not as academically challenging as a Physio or an O.T.

They get paid for work experience too, while Pharmacy students will no longer be doing!
Why aren't the Pharmacists striking?

Because the squeeky wheel gets the oiling!

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 07:00PM

Dia1988 wrote: »

I've been receiving threatening and abusive PMs from certain users on here. They've even attacked my family.

Do you know what Dia, you deserve it! You have been trolling people on this thread , so what goes around...

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 07:03PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

Yes, becoming a nurse is not as academically challenging as a Physio or an O.T.

They get paid for work experience too, while Pharmacy students will no longer be doing!
Why aren't the Pharmacists striking?

Because the squeeky wheel gets the oiling!

What makes being a physio more academically challenging?
Nurses don't get paid work experience until their final placement I believe.
Pharmacists can earn far more than nurses, plus they can go private. You ever hear of a pharmacy shutting down?

Student nurses are being used as free labour by the HSE to make up for the shortage.
They usually get a travel allowance, although this tlcan take months to come through and they have to pay upwards of €100 for vaccinations before they begin.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 13-01-2019 07:07PM

mikemac2 wrote: »

Why should they care though?

Everyone was against the Luas drivers and they won

Public support is not needed to get what you want

i might be wrong. time will tell.
but i do feel the nurses are in for a very rude awakening.

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 07:07PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

What makes being a physio more academically challenging?
Nurses don't get paid work experience.
Pharmacists can earn far more than nurses, plus they can go private. You ever hear of a pharmacy shutting down?

Nurses get paid in Year 4.

Pharacists cover a more in depth subject knowledge that require more mental processes and higher order thinking.
Pharmacy students will no longer get paid for work experience.
Nurses can work in the private sector too, private clinics and nursing homes

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 07:12PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

Nurses get paid in Year 4.

Pharacists cover a more in depth subject knowledge that require more mental processes and higher order thinking.
Pharmacy students will no longer get paid for work experience.
Nurses can work in the private sector too, private clinics and nursing homes

Sorry I edited my post. They don't get paid in years 1-3.
What is "higher order thinking"? How does it relate to what we're talking about?

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i might be wrong. time will tell.
but i do feel the nurses are in for a very rude awakening.

If the current hiring situation gets worse the health services as a whole will just get worse.
That's the long and short of it. We should be trying to make nursing as appealing as possible, through wages, incentives and improving conditions.

gctest50 · 13-01-2019 07:15PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

......................

and they have to pay upwards of €100 for vaccinations before they begin.

Awwww, and what about some young lad starting on the site of the new Childrens Hospital ?

Have to spend more than that on a few tools and clothes to begin with

Why shouldn't that lad get more ?

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 07:17PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Awwww, and what about some young lad starting on the site of the new Childrens Hospital ?

Have to spend more than that on a few tools and clothes to begin with

Why shouldn't that lad get more ?

I don't understand? What lad? What tools? Or is this an extreme form of whataboutery?

Goldengirl · 13-01-2019 07:17PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

What makes being a physio more academically challenging?
Nurses don't get paid work experience.
Pharmacists can earn far more than nurses, plus they can go private. You ever hear of a pharmacy shutting down?

Yes, I was just wondering the same thing. Physiotherapy is a much more limited discipline which can be studied in greater depth, yes. So too can aspects of nursing , but if the colleges went down that route nurses would be in college for many more years! As it is nurses get a broader training in some depth, and they tend to do postgraduate courses to extend their knowledge further in whatever speciality they work in.
Same with OT s.
It makes no sense to compare physios to nurses as there like apples and oranges. Fewer jobs in the sector so fewer places in universities, higher points. Higher points do not make for higher thinkers, just more stressed kids having to achieve more to get them !
It also makes no sense for one group in the HSE to bash another colleague group...

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 07:27PM

It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses

Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied.

Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!

alexmalalex · 13-01-2019 07:37PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses

Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied.

Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!

Hi Dia1988

Tell me how · 13-01-2019 07:41PM

hawkelady wrote: »

Read what you type again ! Are you serious with regards one bloody radio slot piece ? Maybe Phil wanted to read from a script , maybe she didn’t want to take up her 4 mins segueing with that ape Yates , cause she knew that’s exactly what he would have wanted. You’re basing nurses earn 57k due to the face someone didn’t say they weren’t ??? You can do better that that as its a pathetic way to reach a conclusion

Ciara Kelly arguing for nurses increase also agreed they're on 57k average.

If Phil cannot counter such a key figure in this debate then she was a poor choice as union secretary. Everything thing she said sounded like she knew what she was talking about so her not arguing the rate is not due to her approach or competency in my view.

Someone else pointed out here the 57k figure was referenced in the Dail and also not denied or countered.

I'm trying to listen to what should be the key people in this debate comment on the facts (that is what a public discussion is).

gctest50 · 13-01-2019 07:42PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I don't understand? What lad? What tools? Or is this an extreme form of whataboutery?

You are pointing out a nurse needs to spend 100 euro on vaccinations before they begin :

Twenty Grand wrote: »

......................

they have to pay upwards of €100 for vaccinations before they begin.

People starting off in other careers need to spend money on themselves too

For Example : if a lad starts working on a building site, he might need to buy a few tools n work clothes

.
.

hawkelady · 13-01-2019 07:44PM

alexmalalex wrote: »

Hi Dia1988

He outstayed his welcome and is no longer with us .. result

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 07:45PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses

Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied.

Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!

Why Gardai? What similarities are there between nurses and Gardai?
Education requirements? No
Training time? No
Pay scale? No
Roles and responsibilities? No
Shift patterns? No

Sure you may as well say "Gardai get paid the same as TDs".

There hasn't been a single valid argument yet.
All we get is the usual, "well (some unrelated industry) gets paid this, so nurses should get the same", or "ah sure all they do is stand around on Facebook" and the stellar "Sure how does the government pay for that?"

People starting off in other careers need to spend money on themselves too

For Example : if a lad starts working on a building site, he might need to buy a few tools n work clothes

Oh you mean that lad that's getting paid to be there?
Not like that nurse that's not getting paid to be there :rolleyes:

You know that 3rd year apprentices get upwards of €500 a week before tax? While 3rd year nurses get nothing.
Come on lads, you can do better.

Edgware · 13-01-2019 07:49PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i might be wrong. time will tell.
but i do feel the nurses are in for a very rude awakening.

Ooooh Matron!

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 07:53PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why Gardai? What similarities are there between nurses and Gardai?
Education requirements? No
Training time? No
Pay scale? No
Roles and responsibilities? No
Shift patterns? No

Sure you may as well say "Gardai get paid the same as TDs".

There hasn't been a single valid argument yet.
All we get is the usual, "well (some unrelated industry) gets paid this, so nurses should get the same", or "ah sure all they do is stand around on Facebook" and the stellar "Sure how does the government pay for that?"

Using your own logic then how are nurses like teachers and engineers then?

Nurses and Gardai are front line staff.

or are you saying because nurses did a 4 year degree they should be paid the same as other 4 year degree professions? In that case Pilots should be paid the same as Gardai as they both do 18 month courses! What a silly logic you uses!

Nurses get paid one of the highest in the OECD countries and yet are complaining.
They should be striking about conditions solely not pay.

Doctors start at 3ok after 5 years of college!!

What do you think nurses should be paid?

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 07:55PM

[QUOTE=
You know that 3rd year apprentices get upwards of €500 a week before tax? While 3rd year nurses get nothing.
Come on lads, you can do better.[/QUOTE]

Teachers and Pharmacists get nothing every year!!!

At least in Year 4 nurses get paid!

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 08:00PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

Using your own logic then how are nurses like teachers and engineers then?

Nurses and Gardai are front line staff.

or are you saying because nurses did a 4 year degree they should be paid the same as other 4 year degree professions? In that case Pilots should be paid the same as Gardai as they both do 18 month courses! What a silly logic you uses!

Nurses get paid one of the highest in the OECD countries and yet are complaining.
They should be striking about conditions solely not pay.

Doctors start at 3ok after 5 years of college!!

What do you think nurses should be paid?

What does front line staff mean? They deal with the public? Like librarians?
Where did I say they were like teachers and engineer? Or pilots for that matter? You must be confusing me for someone else.

Nurses are striking about conditions. They're striking about the huge number of vacancies that aren't being filled because no body wants to be a nurse and work in Ireland. The best way to hire people is to offer attractive wages.

Doctors start on 30k and can earn 100k plus after they get experience. Nurses cant. And they're totally different jobs.

RoseHayes wrote: »

Teachers and Pharmacists get nothing every year!!!

At least in Year 4 nurses get paid!

So what? I made 5 points in that post and you're focussed on the least significant.
The main point was they're being used to plug holes in the health service when they should be receiving supervised training. Teachers and pharmacists are not.

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 08:07PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

What does front line staff mean? They deal with the public? Like librarians?
Where did I say they were like teachers and engineer? Or pilots for that matter? You must be confusing me for someone else.

Nurses are striking about conditions. They're striking about the huge number of vacancies that aren't being filled because no body wants to be a nurse and work in Ireland. The best way to hire people is to offer attractive wages.

Doctors start on 30k and can earn 100k plus after they get experience. Nurses cant. And they're totally different jobs.
So what? I made 5 points in that post and you're focussed on the least significant.
The main point was they're being used to plug holes in the health service when they should be receiving supervised training. Teachers and pharmacists are not.

If you were charged with setting the nurses wages what would you pay a nurse in Year 1, 5, 10, 30?

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 08:16PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

If you were charged with setting the nurses wages what would you pay a nurse in Year 1, 5, 10, 30?

I'd pay them whatever it takes to increase the number of students studying nursing and whatever to retain and entice nurses to Ireland.

People don't seem to grasp that unlike teachers, Gardai and Luas drivers, there's a very limited supply of nurses and doctors and they're absolutely essential to running the health service.
Ireland is in competition with every other country for the best and brightest and we're sh*te at it.

Without paying them wages that are appropriate to the demand were ALWAYS going to have a crappy health service.

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 08:23PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I'd pay them whatever it takes to increase the number of students studying nursing and whatever to retain and entice nurses to Ireland.

People don't seem to grasp that unlike teachers, Gardai and Luas drivers, there's a very limited supply of nurses and doctors and they're absolutely essential to running the health service.
Ireland is in competition with every other country for the best and brightest and we're sh*te at it.

Without paying them wages that are appropriate to the demand were ALWAYS going to have a crappy health service.

WOW, what a flawed comment!

Teachers are in serious short supply with Principals desperate and reliant on substitute retired teachers. Have you heard the adverts in the media to attract teachers?

Your're clearly a nurse with a very short sight!

You think by paying the nurses extra that'll improve the health service in a conversely related relationship! What an idiotic comment!

Plus, nurses don't become nurses for the pay!

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 08:29PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

WOW, what a flawed comment!

Teachers are in serious short supply with Principals desperate and reliant on substitute retired teachers. Have you heard the adverts in the media to attract teachers?

Your're clearly a nurse with a very short sight!

You think by paying the nurses extra that'll improve the health service! What an idiotic comment!

Plus, nurses don't become nurses for the pay!

There's a far greater nurse shortage than teachers. There's no shortage in primary schools. At least principals have the option to take back staff, but theres no schools reaching out to African and Asian countries to hire teachers. Feel free to prove me wrong there.

And by the way, the teacher shortage is usually in STEM and languages. Why would you bother becoming a teacher when you can earn so much more working for a MNC? Maybe teachers in high demand subjects should be paid more?

Seeing as you've rubbished my post, how do you suggest fixing the shortage of nurses in Ireland, considering the UK can't even hire the 40 thousand nurses it needs right now?

RoseHayes · 13-01-2019 08:45PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

There's a far greater nurse shortage than teachers. There's no shortage in primary schools. At least principals have the option to take back staff, but theres no schools reaching out to African and Asian countries to hire teachers. Feel free to prove me wrong there.

And by the way, the teacher shortage is usually in STEM and languages. Why would you bother becoming a teacher when you can earn so much more working for a MNC? Maybe teachers in high demand subjects should be paid more?

Seeing as you've rubbished my post, how do you suggest fixing the shortage of nurses in Ireland, considering the UK can't even hire the 40 thousand nurses it needs right now?

Actually there is a shortage of Primary Teachers in Ireland. And the Government would look and abroad if they could, but Fluent Irish speaking Asian Primary Teachers proficient im Music, literacy, maths, science etc aren't in great supply!

At least with nurses they can attract from Asia/Africa.

Have you a link to UK needing 40k nurses?

Please suggest an exact figure you think nurses should be paid?

hmmm · 13-01-2019 08:52PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

There's a far greater nurse shortage than teachers.

That's not what the statistics say.

How will increasing nurses pay create more nursing positions? If the problem is not enough nurses, despite us paying more per head for health than the NHS, then the money should be put into increasing the number of positions, not paying the current nurses more.

Twenty Grand · 13-01-2019 08:59PM

RoseHayes wrote: »

Actually there is a shortage of Primary Teachers in Ireland. And the Government would look and abroad if they could, but Fluent Irish speaking Asian Primary Teachers proficient im Music, literacy, maths, science etc aren't in great supply!

At least with nurses they can attract from Asia/Africa.

Have you a link to UK needing 40k nurses?

Please suggest an exact figure you think nurses should be paid?

Wrong again my friend.
The dept of education has planned on retraining primary teachers to fill the secondary gap.
It's predicted the number of primary students will fall over the next few years.

You don't need Irish to work in second level either....so...

Here's the link to the figure but I can give you more if you need: https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/warning-of-possible-51000-nurse-shortfall-in-england-after-brexit/7026639.article

I dont care what it is, 50, 60, 70 at the top of the pay scale with all the qualifications. We have a massive hiring problem and people are ignoring it.

Any chance you're going to answer my question or is this a one way street?

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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