Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461

pablo128 · 24-12-2018 12:31pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Well, I actually just meant defiance/disobedience/grudging admiration for 'getting away with it'.

It's a thing.

But you had to go for the extreme, the obviously lunatic and criminal just to make your worthless pint.

'Sticking it to the man'. That's a catchy slogan alright.

Although 'backing the wrong horse' might be more apt in your case.

Edward M · 24-12-2018 12:31pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Well, I actually just meant defiance/disobedience/grudging admiration for 'getting away with it'.

It's a thing.

But you had to go for the extreme, the obviously lunatic and criminal just to make your worthless pint.

Make mine a stout.

whisky_galore · 24-12-2018 12:32pm

aido79 wrote: »

The McGann defenders only seem interested in the loyalist angle. Facts don't seem to matter.

That triggered the bar stoolers and the oscar winning acting mobilised well-meaning people of low intelligence, the 'ah shure God love him' brigade.

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 12:33pm

pablo128 wrote: »

'Sticking it to the man'. That's a catchy slogan alright.

Although 'backing the wrong horse' might be more apt in your case.

I see your English comprehension skills are as suspect as your grasp of figures.

I have not, and am not backing McGann in any way shape or form.

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 12:34pm

Edward M wrote: »

Make mine a stout.

Yeah, that was a great barstool moment out of you there, alright.

anewme · 24-12-2018 12:35pm

Edward M wrote: »

Make mine a stout.

I'll have Champagne and stick it on the credit card as I've no longer got to pay it back.

After all "I payed for the Banks"

Naos · 24-12-2018 12:44pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

You also fail to see that one guy is 'the banks'. And has since splashed 10 mil on property, two years ago...

Once again, though, the real point is - people's reaction here on boards.ie to the strict issue of repayment amount vs capital, is inconsistent.

If you say that 1k off 400k owed is derisory, then 1.4k off 2,800k is equally so.

Yet people having taken sides, are prevaricating about that. Which is dishonest.

Amirani wrote: »

He's paid off about 2 million in capital in the past 5 years. Your "rate he's paying" is wildly off the mark. Banks commonly offer capital repayment holidays and interest-only periods to many types of borrower, as long as they're credit-worthy. My own parents for example took out a 250k mortgage for the family home when they bought it and for the past few years they've just been making small interest-only payments.

If you pay off a large lump sum; Kennedy paid off half the capital in a couple of years, then the banks will generally be open to very favourable terms. McGann has not been co-operative or even tried, and his attitude is a slap in the face to all hard-pressed mortgage holders who do their best to pay their way.

As regards calling him a "small guy", small guys don't owe 400k to revenue and more to other creditors. Small guys are people who are struggling to make ends meet and still do their best to pay their way. McGann is a leech on society.

Lefty, can you respond to this excellent post?

24-12-2018 12:52pm

anewme wrote: »

I can't link the article as I'm crap at this sort of thing, the Times reported that basically they all started in fighting at the protest and shouting each other down. That's what's to be expected given the mentality involved. They'd fight with their toe nails.

It was said a small number of locals attended with most people being from outside the area.

A couple of locals asked said that the "silent majority" did not support this protest saying "we all have to pay our debts'

This is the article. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/speakers-jeered-as-over-1-200-protest-against-roscommon-eviction-1.3741074

Speakers jeered as over 1,200 protest against Roscommon eviction
Local councillor Paddy Kilduff says event in Strokestown taken over by rival factions

about 17 hours ago
Marese McDonagh in Strokestown
Some speakers were heckled at a protest rally in Strokestown, Co Roscommon, on Sunday attended by more than 1,200 people to highlight their opposition to forced evictions.
Among those jeered was local Fianna Fáil TD Eugene Murphy, who said later he had been told by several local people that they would be staying away from town for the event.
Sinn Féin MEP Matt Carthy, a friend of the McGann family who were recently evicted from their home near Strokestown, was also heckled by a small number of Republican Sinn Féin supporters.
Mr Murphy, whose words were drowned out by booing and chants of “get down”, was followed through the crowd by one heckler who continued to shout abuse after he left the platform.
Local independent councillor Paddy Kilduff, who came to his aid, said the event had been taken over by rival factions.
Threats to target bankers’ homes ‘appalling’, bank staff union says
KBC urged to conduct security audit at branches across Ireland
KBC bank branches attacked amid protest outside Dublin headquarters
Many of those attending the rally had come from other parts of the country, although some local people said they were there because they were disgusted by the way the McGann family had been evicted.
On December 11th, farmer Anthony McGann and his siblings were forcibly evicted from their house on foot of a High Court possession order granted to KBC.
Legislation urged
In the days that followed, security personnel working for KBC remained in the house. However, they were attacked by vigilantes, a dog was killed and six vehicles owned by the security workers set alight. Members of the family have since returned to the house.
“You don’t pull people by the hair. You don’t pull people by the ears,” said one woman. Another local woman said the McGanns had been traumatised. “Why do that to them before Christmas? Why not during the summer? And why not just leave them in their home and let them pay rent if necessary?” she said.

Several speakers called for legislation to ensure the family home can no longer be used as collateral for farm debts.
Independent TD Michael Fitzmaurice said a large number of farms were in difficulty and urged politicians to work together on legislation to regulate security firms and protect family homes. “It is intolerable what is going on at the moment. You cannot put up a family home up as collateral on a farm,” he said.
However, some locals expressed unease at the protest. Two men on their way to Mass said there was a “silent majority” who “did not ask for this protest”.
“We all have to pay our debts,” said one .
Garda presence
A woman who was hurrying to get home with her two grandchildren before the rally said locals did not like the way the eviction was carried out “but you have to pay your debts.”
Gardaí maintained a low-key presence throughout the protest, and no incidents were reported, although there was tension when rival groups shouted down speakers. Rally organiser and MC Henry Owens , a neighbour of the McGanns, repeatedly asked people to be peaceful. “The McGann family want a peaceful meeting. I want a peaceful meeting. The town wants a peaceful meeting.”

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 1:06pm

Naos wrote: »

Lefty, can you respond to this excellent post?

Happy to.

He's paid off about 2 million in capital in the past 5 years.

Misleading, and gives a false impression. From the newspaper article -

for the years 2013 to 2017 shows that Mr Kennedy, best known for his former role as CEO of Paddy Power, owed a total of €2,823,000 throughout the period, with no reduction in the principal recorded.

Made no payment for four years. That's his own business and I'm not privy to his arrangements, but the perception irritates a lot of struggling people that there is one rule for 'them', and one rule for 'us'.

It's easy for agitators to capitalise on that, but wrong to think that the flags tell the whole story.

So it looks to many like Garret and the sweet deal with AIB/Sutherland/GPA/the second property. I am not justifying that, just saying it exists.

And part of the resentment is, of course, the perception that a guy can make such an arrangement, just because he's high up. So, again, no payments for multiple years, millions still owed, and can still splash 10mil on property in Dublin in 2016.

Doesn't cost me a minute's sleep, but for people more under pressure than I, it causes resentment. And of course, jealousy. Again, not me, but not my problem either.

If you pay off a large lump sum; Kennedy paid off half the capital in a couple of years, then the banks will generally be open to very favourable terms.

Don't know what 'very favourable terms' means, but the option of a better LTV ratio is available to all, sure.

McGann has not been co-operative or even tried, and his attitude is a slap in the face to all hard-pressed mortgage holders who do their best to pay their way.

Correct.

As regards calling him a "small guy", small guys don't owe 400k to revenue and more to other creditors. Small guys are people who are struggling to make ends meet and still do their best to pay their way. McGann is a leech on society.

Again, correct, he is. I didn't call him a small guy though.

The problem is, he probably looks, dresses, acts like a small guy. And people, I don't know how they do it, but they surely know his business and dealings, can overlook the brazen-ness and see him as one of their own.

And enjoy that he's giving two fingers to the 'system'. Not my fault. We're not a rational people. We can laugh at the Charvet shirt thing.

Town and Country, eh ?

.

anewme · 24-12-2018 1:10pm

Anna Kavanagh, who gave publicity to the whole shambles, has disappeared off Facebook and all her videos gone. Anyone know why?

Sweet.Science · 24-12-2018 1:12pm

It pains me to read up on this story of these leeches

Did they get evicted or are they still in the property ?

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 1:13pm

anewme wrote: »

Anna Kavanagh, who gave publicity to the whole shambles, has disappeared off Facebook and all her videos gone. Anyone know why?

Because CNN didn't come calling ?

NIMAN · 24-12-2018 1:13pm

Another local woman said the McGanns had been traumatised. “Why do that to them before Christmas? Why not during the summer? And why not just leave them in their home and let them pay rent if necessary?” she said.

This woman is talking nonsense.

So if they had been evicted in the summer, it would have been acceptable?

Leave them in their home and let them pay rent? Yeah, I think with Mr McGann's history of making repayments you'd be banging on his door every month looking for the rent.

JCJCJC · 24-12-2018 1:15pm

anewme wrote: »

Anna Kavanagh, who gave publicity to the whole shambles, has disappeared off Facebook and all her videos gone. Anyone know why?

She's in hair & makeup getting ready for the next instalment.

Dillosk412 · 24-12-2018 1:17pm

Edward M wrote: »

The whole thing is ridiculous.
Banks don't get paid back they fail, banks fail,

Not really. Their first call is that they make every other decent customer pay through higher interest rates and higher charges.

WE are paying for McGann's free lifestyle. Not the banks.

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 1:18pm

NIMAN wrote: »

This woman is talking nonsense.

So if they had been evicted in the summer, it would have been acceptable?

Leave them in their home and let them pay rent? Yeah, I think with Mr McGann's history of making repayments you'd be banging on his door every month looking for the rent.

But was that even necessary ?

Let's say the total amounts owing to all creditors could have been paid off by forced sale of land, assets, stock... whatever.

Can there not be a mechanism put in place whereby that could be done, in spite of agreements that the house formed part of the collateral.

I know it was imbecilic to make the house so, if it wasn't needed.

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 1:20pm

Dillosk412 wrote: »

Not really. Their first call is that they make every other decent customer pay through higher interest rates and higher charges.

WE are paying for McGann's free lifestyle. Not the banks.

Don't the banks have insurance for these eventualities ? I don't know.

JCJCJC · 24-12-2018 1:20pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

But was that even necessary ?

Let's say the total amounts owing to all creditors could have been paid off by forced sale of land, assets, stock... whatever.

Can there not be a mechanism put in place whereby that could be done, in spite of agreements that the house formed part of the collateral.

I know it was imbecilic to make the house so, if it wasn't needed.

Theoretically it can be done, if as you've said, there's sufficient equity in the non-residential property and all concerned are willing to cooperate to make it happen - that's the part that isn't in play in this case.

NIMAN · 24-12-2018 1:20pm

I missed the photos of the horrific injuries the occupants suffered at the hands of those Northern blaggards when the eviction took place.

Be warned folks, don't view them on a full stomach, they are hard to look at.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/images-bloody-injuries-suffered-mcgann-13754075

weldoninhio · 24-12-2018 1:20pm

anewme wrote: »

Anna Kavanagh, who gave publicity to the whole shambles, has disappeared off Facebook and all her videos gone. Anyone know why?

According to a dingbat on Facebook it was because of the following. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

"Yes, first they blocked her page, then they blocked her video in which Anna tells of her recent meeting with a Government Minister who told her she would be murdered if she went Public with her evidence of a Paedophile Ring Operating at the Highest levels of Government and Judiciary."

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 1:23pm

JCJCJC wrote: »

Theoretically it can be done, if as you've said, there's sufficient equity in the non-residential property and all concerned are willing to cooperate to make it happen - that's the part that isn't in play in this case.

Why do you need all concerned to be willing to co-operate ?

Not required for an eviction, after all.

Forced land and other asset sale to keep the house. I think people could live with that.

The Irish attitude to land is a curse.

blueythebear · 24-12-2018 1:27pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Happy to.

Misleading, and gives a false impression. From the newspaper article -

Made no payment for four years. That's his own business and I'm not privy to his arrangements, but the perception irritates a lot of struggling people that there is one rule for 'them', and one rule for 'us'.

It's easy for agitators to capitalise on that, but wrong to think that the flags tell the whole story.

So it looks to many like Garret and the sweet deal with AIB/Sutherland/GPA/the second property. I am not justifying that, just saying it exists.

And part of the resentment is, of course, the perception that a guy can make such an arrangement, just because he's high up. So, again, no payments for multiple years, millions still owed, and can still splash 10mil on property in Dublin in 2016.

Doesn't cost me a minute's sleep, but for people more under pressure than I, it causes resentment. And of course, jealousy. Again, not me, but not my problem either.

Don't know what 'very favourable terms' means, but the option of a better LTV ratio is available to all, sure.

Correct.

Again, correct, he is. I didn't call him a small guy though.

The problem is, he probably looks, dresses, acts like a small guy. And people, I don't know how they do it, but they surely know his business and dealings, can overlook the brazen-ness and see him as one of their own.

And enjoy that he's giving two fingers to the 'system'. Not my fault. We're not a rational people. We can laugh at the Charvet shirt thing.

Town and Country, eh ?

.

I think the main thing in relation to Mr Kennedys' loans is that we do not know the arrangements behind them. They could be standard mortgage lending backed by property or they could even be pension backed. Where they are pension backed, there may not even be a requirement to pay anything as the loan is secured by a pension which is essentially cash to the Bank to be realised at the end of the term of the loan.

The point is however, that Mr Kennedy came to an agreement with the Bank as he obviously engaged. I don't think anyone can argue (not sayng that you are arguing this) that it is ok for one person to decide to not pay a thing on the basis that there is another person getting what they perceive to be a sweetheart deal.

All banks are offering very pro-borrower arrangements such as split mortgages, life interests and in many many cases, if you cannot pay back the leftover debt, if you surrender the property, you will not be chased for the rest of it. Mr McGann appears to have fought the Banks at every turn, first of all legally with the aid of solicitors and still lost, then without solicitors and lost and finally with the aid of a group of scumbags. He has not won however, the house still remains the Banks property and now his borther and sister get to live in the house wondering if they go down to do the shopping if the locks will be changed on them in the meantime. The Brother and Sister are just as bad if they are happy to remain in the house so I've no symptahy for any of them.

JCJCJC · 24-12-2018 1:30pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Why do you need all concerned to be willing to co-operate ?

Not required for an eviction, after all.

Forced land and other asset sale to keep the house. I think people could live with that.

The Irish attitude to land is a curse.

You need the borrowers to consent to valuations as-is and to consent to sale of the released part. You need them to give a solicitor power of attorney in advance to sign the contracts on their behalf. You need all the registered charge owners to agree to partial release of their charges on the plot of ground containing the house - the solicitor drafts deeds of discharge, engineers have to prepare maps, all the detail of wayleaves, septic tanks, local property taxes, NPPR charges etc all has to be gone through - all the creditors have to seal the discharges, side-shows like rights of residence etc have to be cleared off, all concerned have to be independently legally advised etc - and that's only the start of it.

The Irish attitude to land is in our constitution, that's why comparisons to other countries' approaches to realising security aaren't always valid.

24-12-2018 1:34pm

anewme wrote: »

Anna Kavanagh, who gave publicity to the whole shambles, has disappeared off Facebook and all her videos gone. Anyone know why?

I’d imagine that either her eyes were opened or she’d been warned off.

expectationlost · 24-12-2018 1:54pm

anewme wrote: »

Anna Kavanagh, who gave publicity to the whole shambles, has disappeared off Facebook and all her videos gone. Anyone know why?

because in the future everyone disappear from facebook for 15 minutes

or

maybe she's not proud of this racist rambling

https://twitter.com/newsworthy_ie/status/1076864300373946369

aido79 · 24-12-2018 2:04pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I missed the photos of the horrific injuries the occupants suffered at the hands of those Northern blaggards when the eviction took place.

Be warned folks, don't view them on a full stomach, they are hard to look at.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/images-bloody-injuries-suffered-mcgann-13754075

My toddler has a similar injury from falling on concrete last week. She seemed more concerned about the concrete than her knee at the time.

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-12-2018 2:18pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Happy to.

Misleading, and gives a false impression. From the newspaper article -

Made no payment for four years. That's his own business and I'm not privy to his arrangements, but the perception irritates a lot of struggling people that there is one rule for 'them', and one rule for 'us'.

It's easy for agitators to capitalise on that, but wrong to think that the flags tell the whole story.

So it looks to many like Garret and the sweet deal with AIB/Sutherland/GPA/the second property. I am not justifying that, just saying it exists.

And part of the resentment is, of course, the perception that a guy can make such an arrangement, just because he's high up. So, again, no payments for multiple years, millions still owed, and can still splash 10mil on property in Dublin in 2016.

Doesn't cost me a minute's sleep, but for people more under pressure than I, it causes resentment. And of course, jealousy. Again, not me, but not my problem either.

Don't know what 'very favourable terms' means, but the option of a better LTV ratio is available to all, sure.

Correct.

Again, correct, he is. I didn't call him a small guy though.

The problem is, he probably looks, dresses, acts like a small guy. And people, I don't know how they do it, but they surely know his business and dealings, can overlook the brazen-ness and see him as one of their own.

And enjoy that he's giving two fingers to the 'system'. Not my fault. We're not a rational people. We can laugh at the Charvet shirt thing.

Town and Country, eh ?

.

When they say this

for the years 2013 to 2017 shows that Mr Kennedy, best known for his former role as CEO of Paddy Power, owed a total of €2,823,000 throughout the period, with no reduction in the principal recorded.

Does that not mean he has paid the interest on the loan but has not paid money off the actual loan?

If that's the case then surely it shows he has been in contact with them over the loan, came to an agreement for that time to pay interest only (as thousands have done over the years) and has followed through on said arrangement?

Naos · 24-12-2018 2:25pm

Amirani wrote:

He's paid off about 2 million in capital in the past 5 years.

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Misleading, and gives a false impression. From the newspaper article -

Made no payment for four years. That's his own business and I'm not privy to his arrangements, but the perception irritates a lot of struggling people that there is one rule for 'them', and one rule for 'us'.

How exactly is it misleading?

article wrote:

The bank's annual report for 2013 shows that Mr Kennedy made payments of €253,000 in 2012.

In 2013.. An examination of the accounts for that year show Mr Kennedy made payments totalling €1,135,000

In 2014, they came to a total of €22,000, or the equivalent of €1,833 a month.

In 2015, his payments were slightly higher at €18,000 - the equivalent of €1,500 a month

Mr Kennedy made payments totalling €17,000 - the equivalent of €1,416 a month in both 2016 and 2017.

Can you please explain how he has made no payments in four years, despite the above payments?

Lefty Bicek · 24-12-2018 2:30pm

Naos wrote: »

How exactly is it misleading?
Can you please explain how he has made no payments in four years, despite the above payments?

No repayments to the capital amount, is obviously what the article refers to.

handlemaster · 24-12-2018 2:41pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I missed the photos of the horrific injuries the occupants suffered at the hands of those Northern blaggards when the eviction took place.

Be warned folks, don't view them on a full stomach, they are hard to look at.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/images-bloody-injuries-suffered-mcgann-13754075

yet Gardi were present at the eviction. id say none of this happened regarding injuries upon the residents. SF had a protest in strokestown anything for more votes. The gang who assaulted the security guards wanted the work themselves

Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461