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Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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Comments

  • #3702
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    THE head of bookmaker Paddy Power accounted for the vast bulk of the €8.1m outstanding in loans at the end of last year to the directors of the country's bailed-out banks.

    Finance Minister Michael Noonan confirmed in a response to a parliamentary question that €1.5m was outstanding at the end of December 2011 to board members of the state-owned banks, while the remainder of the massive debt lay with top officials from Bank of Ireland.

    Paddy Power chief executive Patrick Kennedy (43) owed about €5m of mortgage debt at the end of December last year and had €16,000 of credit card debt. Mr Kennedy was appointed as non-executive director at Bank of Ireland in July 2010.

    An examination of the figures contained in Bank of Ireland's annual report shows that Mr Kennedy's debt had reduced from about €5.08m to €5.05m, suggesting he paid off €32,000 or about €2,700 a month.

    Attempts by the Irish Independent to contact Mr Kennedy proved unsuccessful. Bank of Ireland would not comment and a spokesman for Paddy Power said the matter was one for the bank to respond to.

    Mr Kennedy was appointed as a non-executive director at the bank in July 2010.



    In the response to the parliamentary question from Fianna Fail TD Robert Troy, Mr Noonan said all the loans were performing.
    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/paddy-power-boss-kennedy-owes-bulk-of-8-1m-bank-director-debt-28952870.html


    Its ok, Fianna Fail called these performing loans hahahahahaha


  • #3703
    Gunmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    The monthly repayment bears no relationship to the capital amount outstanding.

    Under what terms? From what I can tell the Indo used a commercial mortgage calculator to get that monthly figure. I highly doubt his agreement is the same as an "off the shelf" mortgage. Hell, hes payed so much up front he shouldnt have to make another payment till 2022 as its a 30 year debt! Maybe he makes large payment sums at set intervals and the monthly repayments are a bridging mechanism and he pays the accumulated fees as a lump sum.

    Unless you can provide the complete terms for his mortgage to BoI anything you say is hearsay and whatabouterey!

    Contrast that, your Roscommon friend has paid about €10,000 over 14 years of a now €280,000 debt....thats less than 5% over half the course of its term.


    One of these men is good for his word; if he asks for a unique payment scheme the bank may well listen as he can be trusted to pay with a large up front repayment.
    One has chanced his arm for almost a decade and a half and dodged every single payment he owes (mortgage, creditors, taxes) and wouldnt even bother showing up to court to defend his case when the bank was seeking repossession.

    Last point: the incoming bank chiefs mortgage is almost as old as the repossession order KBC was issued by the Irish courts. The bank chief has payed a third of his debts in the same time-frame your friend lived in someone elses house for free! And the incoming bank chief is the scumbag in this comparison!

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #3704
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Earlier we had people making the case that McGann's offer of 1000 per month was rejected out of hand by KBC.

    But argumentative eejits are on here wasting people's time making pathetic rebuttals of an apparent double standard, and doing so out of nothing more than financial ignorance.

    I mean, if one can't recognise that the basic percentages at play make a mockery of the 'interest only' case, just keep quiet altogether.

    I think it is quite obvious to all of us why KBC rejected the offer. The man NEVER kept his word on the numerous other agreements reached. I mean how much leeway in your opinion should KBC have given him? Personally I believe they were way too lenient.


  • #3705
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Eh no, you are completely missing the point.

    Start of 2012, kennedy owed €4.2m, by end of 2017, he owes €2.8m. That sounds to me like someone who has been paying down his mortgage. End of story. The fact that this suggests he made significant advance payments that he credited against his monthly repayments has clearly passed over your head, in your rush to whataboutery.

    A fellow-traveller here of yours, in his ignorance, wondered whether the 1,400 pcm on a loan of 2.8 million, is explained by it being 'interest-only'.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108957250&postcount=3675

    It is not.

    That is all.


    .


  • #3706
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    gandalf wrote: »
    I think it is quite obvious to all of us why KBC rejected the offer. The man NEVER kept his word on the numerous other agreements reached. I mean how much leeway in your opinion should KBC have given him? Personally I believe they were way too lenient.

    Assuing that to be true, I would not disagree with you on that, at all.


  • #3707
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Gunmonkey wrote: »
    Under what terms? From what I can tell the Indo used a commercial mortgage calculator to get that monthly figure. I highly doubt his agreement is the same as an "off the shelf" mortgage. Hell, hes payed so much up front he shouldnt have to make another payment till 2022 as its a 30 year debt! Maybe he makes large payment sums at set intervals and the monthly repayments are a bridging mechanism and he pays the accumulated fees as a lump sum.

    Unless you can provide the complete terms for his mortgage to BoI anything you say is hearsay and whatabouterey!

    Contrast that, your Roscommon friend has paid about €10,000 over 14 years of a now €280,000 debt....thats less than 5% over half the course of its term.


    One of these men is good for his word; if he asks for a unique payment scheme the bank may well listen as he can be trusted to pay with a large up front repayment.
    One has chanced his arm for almost a decade and a half and dodged every single payment he owes (mortgage, creditors, taxes) and wouldnt even bother showing up to court to defend his case when the bank was seeking repossession.

    Last point: the incoming bank chiefs mortgage is almost as old as the repossession order KBC was issued by the Irish courts. The bank chief has payed a third of his debts in the same time-frame your friend lived in someone elses house for free! And the incoming bank chief is the scumbag in this comparison!

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    He's not my friend. Is that clear ?


  • #3708
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,414 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Deleted User wrote: »
    he isnt paying his mortgage, he is paying just over a tenth of it and has that deal because he is high up in the bank

    but lets all foam at the mouth over a farm in Roscommon, well done all round

    Evictions are just for the little guy anyway

    But he is paying what he's agreed to pay to the bank.

    Yer man in Roscommon didn't. He went into arrears for a decade and when the bank tried to come to an arrangement with him, he couldn't be bothered even doing that.

    I don't like that someone got a loan for millions and is paying back so little but he's actually negotiated and come to an arrangement.

    I wouldn't like it if yer man in Roscommon came to an arrangement for loans of nearly a quarter of a million and paid a pittance too. But he's not even doing that. He's consistently ignored the banks. And it's not just the banks. He's owed loads of people money. He's a bad debtor. His property should be repossessed.

    Is it horrible that a farm that's been in a family for three generations is being lost? Yes it is. But the person who's to blame is the guy who took out the loan and made no effort to pay it back, and broke multiple promises to pay it back.


  • #3709
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Banks write off over €300m in three deals with Denis O’Brien

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/companies/banks-write-off-over-300m-in-three-deals-with-denis-o-brien-1.1830533?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Fcompanies%2Fbanks-write-off-over-300m-in-three-deals-with-denis-o-brien-1.1830533


    dodgy mortgage deals and debt write offs are for the big guys, evictions are for the little guys


  • #3710
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,414 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    A fellow-traveller here of yours, in his ignorance, wondered whether the 1,400 pcm on a loan of 2.8 million, is explained by it being 'interest-only'.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108957250&postcount=3675

    It is not.

    That is all.


    .

    I only discovered tonight that "fellow traveller" is a word that some right wingers in the US use to describe liberals/communists (They're both the same to those guys).


  • #3711
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Grayson wrote: »
    But he is paying what he's agreed to pay to the bank.

    Yer man in Roscommon didn't. He went into arrears for a decade and when the bank tried to come to an arrangement with him, he couldn't be bothered even doing that.

    I don't like that someone got a loan for millions and is paying back so little but he's actually negotiated and come to an arrangement.

    I wouldn't like it if yer man in Roscommon came to an arrangement for loans of nearly a quarter of a million and paid a pittance too. But he's not even doing that. He's consistently ignored the banks. And it's not just the banks. He's owed loads of people money. He's a bad debtor. His property should be repossessed.

    Is it horrible that a farm that's been in a family for three generations is being lost? Yes it is. But the person who's to blame is the guy who took out the loan and made no effort to pay it back, and broke multiple promises to pay it back.

    I cannot disagree, your points are fair and correct (the only small point would be that the lender should take some of the blame too and incur a loss - which i`m sure they would be with all the trouble this takes and the length of time this has taken). The main issue for me is the double standard. Its being ignored by many as pure whataboutery too. I enjoy reading others opinions and debating (if we can call it that haha) but i`m not yet convinced that A) its not whataboutery or B) there isnt a double standard

    I mean you wont change a double standard by just keeping on the same.


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  • #3712
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Grayson wrote: »
    I don't like that someone got a loan for millions and is paying back so little but he's actually negotiated and come to an arrangement.

    You see, 'negotiated and come to an arangement' implies a certain state of affairs.

    Yet the same man could afford in 2016 to buy a property in D6 for 10 million.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/former-paddy-power-boss-buys-10m-house-in-dartry-1.2712296


    .


  • #3713
    aido79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    Can the McGanns defenders on here please have read of the below pertaining to the case of the mortgage (and that's before the VAT fraud and the string of other bad debts) and please enlighten me as to why they should be allowed keep their home.

    20i80b9.jpg

    105u1lk.jpg

    307nviu.jpg

    The McGann defenders only seem interested in the loyalist angle. Facts don't seem to matter.


  • #3714
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Grayson wrote: »
    I only discovered tonight that "fellow traveller" is a word that some right wingers in the US use to describe liberals/communists (They're both the same to those guys).

    Well, not originally used to describe communists; rather to describe people who were not members of the Communist Party, but who were sympathisers.

    More palatably, GB Shaw -
    I'm not a teacher: only a fellow traveler of whom you asked the way. I pointed ahead - ahead of myself as well as you.

    Alternatively, RD Laing said -
    the psychiatrist must become a fellow traveller with his patient


  • #3715
    the butcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭the butcher


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    You see, 'negotiated and come to an arangement' implies a certain state of affairs.

    Yet the same man could afford in 2016 to buy a property in D6 for 10 million.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/former-paddy-power-boss-buys-10m-house-in-dartry-1.2712296


    .

    "Cosy deals for some, evictions for others your Honour."

    "I'm afraid the farmer is in complete contempt of the courts with his blatant....
    WHATABOUTERY"


  • #3716
    aido79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    You see the problem with this, is that earlier in the thread we read that McGann made some token gesture of repayment... something like a grand per month.

    And people here mocked the derisory nature of that, calculating the number of years it would take etc etc

    All fine and well.

    But this Kennedy guy, according to the headline in the link, is paying 1,400 per month on 2.8 million of debt.

    Do you see any double standard there, in terms of how the two boyos are perceived ?

    What double standard? McGann made one payment of €1000 and didn't pay anything after that. The Kennedy guy is paying €1400 every month.


  • #3717
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    I know this will come up over Christmas, with my Dad banging on about what a disgrace it is, evicting people from their homes, etc. Just so I can inform my dad of the actual level of debt and taking the piss, we have:

    Taking a mortgage out on the family home of about €200k, and paying back around €10k of it. Hasn’t made a payment since 2011, and failed to cooperate with the bank with regards a restructuring of the loan

    Owes a local quarry around €18,000

    Owed Revenue €400k for indeclaration of VAT. Not sure how much of this was paid off

    Owes money for a new Land Rover he bought

    My father is a good man who pays his debts. It’s laughable that people like my dad are siding with Mr McGann out of some kind of misplaced solidarity. I’m not sure if it’s ignorance on their part, as they’d only hear what’s on the news so perhaps not aware of the full picture, but I find the level of support quite bizarre.


  • #3718
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    aido79 wrote: »
    What double standard? McGann made one payment of €1000 and didn't pay anything after that. The Kennedy guy is paying €1400 every month.

    When it was reported that McGann had offered a grand a month and that the bank had rejected it out of hand, people were scathing of the thousand as a proportion of the total.

    Yet when the table is turned, mealy-mouthed apologists try to explain away 1400 a month on 2.8 million capital amount by some crap about the interest-only portion.

    In both cases, people knew about as much of one agreement as the other, ie zilch.


  • #3719
    aido79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    When it was reported that McGann had offered a grand a month and that the bank had rejected it out of hand, people were scathing of the thousand as a proportion of the total.

    Yet when the table is turned, mealy-mouthed apologists try to explain away 1400 a month on 2.8 million capital amount by some crap about the interest-only portion.

    In both cases, people knew about as much of one agreement as the other, ie zilch.

    Maybe because last time the bank entered into that same agreement he made one repayment and reneged on it.

    You realise that in the case of the 2.8 million debt that by paying interest only nothing will be paid off the capital so the bank will own it until the capital is paid off?
    I really fail to see a link between the 2 cases. One guy is cooperating with the banks. The other isn't.


  • #3720
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    I know this will come up over Christmas, with my Dad banging on about what a disgrace it is, evicting people from their homes, etc. Just so I can inform my dad of the actual level of debt and taking the piss, we have:

    Taking a mortgage out on the family home of about €200k, and paying back around €10k of it. Hasn’t made a payment since 2011, and failed to cooperate with the bank with regards a restructuring of the loan

    Owes a local quarry around €18,000

    Owed Revenue €400k for indeclaration of VAT. Not sure how much of this was paid off

    Owes money for a new Land Rover he bought

    My father is a good man who pays his debts. It’s laughable that people like my dad are siding with Mr McGann out of some kind of misplaced solidarity. I’m not sure if it’s ignorance on their part, as they’d only hear what’s on the news so perhaps not aware of the full picture, but I find the level of support quite bizarre.

    Sentimental-minded people are not always necessarily in solidarity with the McGann's of the world, but against the 'system', whether that be Guards, banks, bailiffs.

    A lot of people would like to have either the balls or the opportunity, or both, to stick it to the man.


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  • #3721
    the butcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭the butcher


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-stars-judges-and-rugby-elite-who-owe-anglo-millions-29887499.html

    Irish "celebs", media, judges, lawyers, bankers, politicians, accountants, stockbrokers, developers, the list goes on. They are the "sensitive" borrowers, they are the ones with the cosy deals. They might as well not be paying back anything in comparison. That BOI chairman won't pay off that 2.8 million for another 165 years at the rate he's paying!!

    If you still don't understand the huge support for this eviction (and this farmer is probably the best example of a blaggard that Revenue/banks could display in public) then continue paying your overpriced shoebox for decades and never kick up a fuss. Tell others to join you in a sea of debt. Let's hope there is never any interest rate hikes or recessions or automation in the next 20-30 years...


  • #3722
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    aido79 wrote: »
    Maybe because last time the bank entered into that same agreement he made one repayment and reneged on it.

    You realise that in the case of the 2.8 million debt that by paying interest only nothing will be paid off the capital so the bank will own it until the capital is paid off?
    I really fail to see a link between the 2 cases. One guy is cooperating with the banks. The other isn't.


    You also fail to see that one guy is 'the banks'. And has since splashed 10 mil on property, two years ago...


    Once again, though, the real point is - people's reaction here on boards.ie to the strict issue of repayment amount vs capital, is inconsistent.

    If you say that 1k off 400k owed is derisory, then 1.4k off 2,800k is equally so.

    Yet people having taken sides, are prevaricating about that. Which is dishonest.


    .


  • #3723
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,387 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    WesternZulu wrote: »
    Seems like the most black and white eviction case you could think of.

    KBC acted with the patience of a saint and the thanks they get for it is knuckle draggers attacking their branches.

    We've our mortgage with KBC. The thanks they'll get from me is to get my personal banking business as well in the new year.


  • #3724
    aido79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    the butcher wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-stars-judges-and-rugby-elite-who-owe-anglo-millions-29887499.html

    Irish "celebs", media, judges, lawyers, bankers, politicians, accountants, stockbrokers, developers, the list goes on. They are the "sensitive" borrowers, they are the ones with the cosy deals. They might as well not be paying back anything in comparison. That BOI chairman won't pay off that 2.8 million for another 165 years at the rate he's paying!!

    If you still don't understand the huge support for this eviction (and this farmer is probably the best example of a blaggard that Revenue/banks could display in public) then continue paying your overpriced shoebox for decades and never kick up a fuss. Tell others to join you in a sea of debt. Let's hope there is never any interest rate hikes or recessions or automation in the next 20-30 years...

    You really don't get it. You say he won't pay it off for 165 years. I disagree. He is paying interest only...he wouldn't pay it off in 165 centuries and when he dies the bank will be left with the deeds of the property to recover the money.
    Your mate in Roscommon is completely different because he refuses to come to a compromise with either the banks or revenue.


  • #3725
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    aido79 wrote: »
    You really don't get it. You say he won't pay it off for 165 years. I disagree. He is paying interest only...he wouldn't pay it off in 165 centuries and when he dies the bank will be left with the deeds of the property to recover the money.

    Could you or I get away with that, while buying 10mil of property in 2016 ?

    Like, what about honouring the contract you signed, and all that ?

    And would you or I ever get an interest rate implied by 1,400 pcm on 2.8mil ?


  • #3726
    aido79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    You also fail to see that one guy is 'the banks'. And has since splashed 10 mil on property, two years ago...


    Once again, though, the real point is - people's reaction here on boards.ie to the strict issue of repayment amount vs capital, is inconsistent.

    If you say that 1k off 400k owed is derisory, then 1.4k off 2,800k is equally so.

    Yet people having taken sides, are prevaricating about that. Which is dishonest.


    .

    In your opinion should everybody with a mortgage stick it to the man as you've put it in another post?


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  • #3727
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    aido79 wrote: »
    In your opinion should everybody with a mortgage stick it to the man as you've put it in another post?

    No. And I have said nothing to even imply that I think so.


  • #3728
    aido79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Could you or I get away with that, while buying 10mil of property in 2016 ?

    Like, what about honouring the contract you signed, and all that ?

    And would you or I ever get an interest rate implied by 1,400 pcm on 2.8mil ?

    I don't know. I have never approached a bank looking for a 10 million euro loan.

    I didn't say I agreed with the deal Kennedy got but at least he's cooperating with the banks.
    The interest rate which works out at around 0.6% is definitely something I would agree with you on though. It's not fair and is definitely showing favouritism because of his position.


  • #3729
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    aido79 wrote: »
    I don't know. I have never approached a bank looking for a 10 million euro loan.

    I didn't say I agreed with the deal Kennedy got but at least he's cooperating with the banks.
    The interest rate which works out at around 0.6% is definitely something I would agree with you on though. It's not fair and is definitely showing favouritism because of his position.

    aido, how can you say he's co-operating with the banks ?

    He is the chairman of the bank !


  • #3730
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Could you or I get away with that, while buying 10mil of property in 2016 ?

    Like, what about honouring the contract you signed, and all that ?

    And would you or I ever get an interest rate implied by 1,400 pcm on 2.8mil ?

    Looking at interest only calculators online (there are none i can find for Irish banks) they vary from 11 - 13k per month in repayments for a 30 years interest only loan on 2.8million.
    https://www.anz.com.au/personal/home-loans/calculators-tools/calculate-repayments/

    https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/calculators/interest-only-calculator.php

    so yeah he is only paying a fraction of what he should be paying and if everyone did that the banks would need bailing out again too. Is anyone angry about that increasing their rates ? Wouldnt the banks recover more money from that property via eviction than the farm in Roscommon


  • #3731
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    aido, how can you say he's co-operating with the banks ?

    He is the chairman of the bank !

    This is a major part of the problem, the conflict of interest. Laws need to be made to prevent this from happening. More of the in crowd creaming off the top while they watch us fight among ourselves.


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  • #3732
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    the butcher wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-stars-judges-and-rugby-elite-who-owe-anglo-millions-29887499.html

    Irish "celebs", media, judges, lawyers, bankers, politicians, accountants, stockbrokers, developers, the list goes on. They are the "sensitive" borrowers, they are the ones with the cosy deals. They might as well not be paying back anything in comparison. That BOI chairman won't pay off that 2.8 million for another 165 years at the rate he's paying!!

    If you still don't understand the huge support for this eviction (and this farmer is probably the best example of a blaggard that Revenue/banks could display in public) then continue paying your overpriced shoebox for decades and never kick up a fuss. Tell others to join you in a sea of debt. Let's hope there is never any interest rate hikes or recessions or automation in the next 20-30 years...

    I don't know much about the BOI chairman you're talking about but even in your post you say he is actually paying!

    As for the Indo article even in it it says that many of the loans were performing, granted not all.

    What's very noticeable about the Strokestown case is that the guy was in arrears in 2007!


  • #3733
    aido79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    aido, how can you say he's co-operating with the banks ?

    He is the chairman of the bank !

    I have no intention of going down that rabbit hole with you.


  • #3734
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I don't know much about the BOI chairman you're talking about but even in your post you say he is actually paying!

    As for the Indo article even in it it says that many of the loans were performing, granted not all.

    What's very noticeable about the Strokestown case is that the guy was in arrears in 2007!

    You missed the point about it being 'sensitive', i.e its all about as transparent as a black hole. Again there is an us and a them. They can make up the rules and write off their buddies debt, give themselves favourable mortgage terms etc etc.


  • #3735
    anewme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,051 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    DebDynamite wrote: »
    I know this will come up over Christmas, with my Dad banging on about what a disgrace it is, evicting people from their homes, etc. Just so I can inform my dad of the actual level of debt and taking the piss, we have:

    Taking a mortgage out on the family home of about €200k, and paying back around €10k of it. Hasn’t made a payment since 2011, and failed to cooperate with the bank with regards a restructuring of the loan

    Owes a local quarry around €18,000

    Owed Revenue €400k for indeclaration of VAT. Not sure how much of this was paid off

    Owes money for a new Land Rover he bought

    My father is a good man who pays his debts. It’s laughable that people like my dad are siding with Mr McGann out of some kind of misplaced solidarity. I’m not sure if it’s ignorance on their part, as they’d only hear what’s on the news so perhaps not aware of the full picture, but I find the level of support quite bizarre.

    In fairness, I think that's down to the original story being twisted for pity when it was just simply not true.

    "Foreign Bank employ Anti-Irish Loyalists to viciously evict poor Irish pensioners coming up to Christmas"

    My Mum was the same. "Terrible thing to do in this day and age to these poor people "

    people then get more annoyed then for being taken for fools and deliberately lied to.

    When I explained your Man paid for nothing and paid no one ever, she swiftly changed her tune.

    She's now asking why no one told the truth about this and how 50 must be the new 80! And Land Rovers? Sure they are a fortune.

    The new focus is now because of this non payer chancer arsehole a dog was battered to death.


  • #3736
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    I don’t get these anti eviction rallies that are happening for people in private and public houses

    Can anyone summarize it for me

    Do I have to continue paying my mortgage or can I stop ?


  • #3737
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,177 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Sentimental-minded people are not always necessarily in solidarity with the McGann's of the world, but against the 'system', whether that be Guards, banks, bailiffs.

    A lot of people would like to have either the balls or the opportunity, or both, to stick it to the man.

    Stick it to the man ?

    What like throwing fire bombs into people's places of employment.

    Yeah stick it to the man. Absolute crazyness


  • #3738
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,543 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    the butcher wrote: »
    Irish "celebs", media, judges, lawyers, bankers, politicians, accountants, stockbrokers, developers, the list goes on. They are the "sensitive" borrowers, they are the ones with the cosy deals. They might as well not be paying back anything in comparison. That BOI chairman won't pay off that 2.8 million for another 165 years at the rate he's paying!!

    He's paid off about 2 million in capital in the past 5 years. Your "rate he's paying" is wildly off the mark. Banks commonly offer capital repayment holidays and interest-only periods to many types of borrower, as long as they're credit-worthy. My own parents for example took out a 250k mortgage for the family home when they bought it and for the past few years they've just been making small interest-only payments.

    If you pay off a large lump sum; Kennedy paid off half the capital in a couple of years, then the banks will generally be open to very favourable terms. McGann has not been co-operative or even tried, and his attitude is a slap in the face to all hard-pressed mortgage holders who do their best to pay their way.

    As regards calling him a "small guy", small guys don't owe 400k to revenue and more to other creditors. Small guys are people who are struggling to make ends meet and still do their best to pay their way. McGann is a leech on society.


  • #3739
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,879 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Christ, yet more strawmen and whataboutery. Thankfully most regular people can tell the difference between an apple and an orange otherwise the country would be in a worse shape than it is already.


  • #3740
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    When it was reported that McGann had offered a grand a month and that the bank had rejected it out of hand, people were scathing of the thousand as a proportion of the total.

    Yet when the table is turned, mealy-mouthed apologists try to explain away 1400 a month on 2.8 million capital amount by some crap about the interest-only portion.

    In both cases, people knew about as much of one agreement as the other, ie zilch.

    We dealt with this. McGann has a history of making agreements and then not following through. That's why people dismissed his offer (if there ever was one). The economics had nothing to do with it. If this was the first negotiation then you would have a point but it isn't. At this stage if they decided to evict them on Christmas day I'd be in agreement. McGann has brought this all on himself.


  • #3741
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,410 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    I don’t get these anti eviction rallies that are happening for people in private and public houses

    Can anyone summarize it for me

    Do I have to continue paying my mortgage or can I stop ?

    Well if you did decide to stop paying your mortgage, there is a small chance that you will actually be evicted, as they are rare in Ireland.

    Plus, it could take you many years to even get to that, so technically you could live in your house for nothing for many years.

    And there is a large section of Irish society who think you'd be doing no wrong, but I suspect you know yourself that it wouldn't be the responsible thing to do.;)


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  • #3742
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    You see the problem with this, is that earlier in the thread we read that McGann made some token gesture of repayment... something like a grand per month.

    And people here mocked the derisory nature of that, calculating the number of years it would take etc etc

    All fine and well.

    But this Kennedy guy, according to the headline in the link, is paying 1,400 per month on 2.8 million of debt.

    Do you see any double standard there, in terms of how the two boyos are perceived ?

    The difference is that McCann didn’t bother actually paying the €1,000


  • #3743
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Well if you did decide to stop paying your mortgage, there is a small chance that you will actually be evicted, as they are rare in Ireland.

    Plus, it could take you many years to even get to that, so technically you could live in your house for nothing for many years.

    And there is a large section of Irish society who think you'd be doing no wrong, but I suspect you know yourself that it wouldn't be the responsible thing to do.;)

    No wonder we have so many in mortgage arrears.

    We hear it’s peoole who are suffering through austerity cuts rabble rabble.

    Let’s be honest they can pay their mortgage they just choose not too cause they know they won’t be evicted.


  • #3744
    randd1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭randd1


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    I don’t get these anti eviction rallies that are happening for people in private and public houses

    Can anyone summarize it for me

    Do I have to continue paying my mortgage or can I stop ?

    You can actually stop now.

    Let everyone on facebook know you're doing it, and tag some politicians in the post.

    Say a few catchy lines like below;
    - "I payed for the banks, I owe nothing"
    - "I'm joining the revolution to take our country back"
    - "FF/FG and the banks are utter fascists and I will not pay for fascism"
    - "I'm standing against fascist capitalism"
    - "Homes should be free for everybody"
    - "No evictions, remember the famine"
    - "Down with the freely elected democratic government of the people's choosing, up with bloody revolution against free democracy and its people where all votes are equal because after all we know how to run a country because we're angry and have a microphone"

    You'll whip up so much support from fringe groups and wannabe Stalinists and little Hitler's wanting to jump on the elect me bandwagon who want power for their and their mates own ends, they'll have become the poster child for the cause and you'll never have to pay another cent.


  • #3745
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,066 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    is this 30 acres being productive?


  • #3746
    Dillosk412
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 42 ✭Dillosk412


    My mortgage rate is 3.7%

    If I was in Denmark it would be about 2%.



    If I was like McGann and similar people, then in Denmark if I did not come to an agreement with my bank, my house would be repossessed within 3 or 4 months and would be sold to a new owner within 6 months.

    In Ireland I can employ delay tactics, cost the bank a fortune in legal fees and live scott free for up to 10 years. Then when the day of reckoning comes I can get my mates in Sinn Fein to organise protests.


    For those who support people like the McGanns, remember it not the banks that are losing the money. They very simply pass ALL the costs onto other borrowers. So your credit card rate, your car loan rate, your mortgage rate and your bank charges are all higher than most other EU countries in order to pay for scroungers like the McGanns.

    YOU are paying for his free living.

    On top of that, your taxes paid for his scamming of VAT.

    McGann has screwed to ordinary decent Irish person left right and centre. Yet some STILL support him (mostly unemployed, social welfare types)


  • #3747
    anewme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,051 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    I can't link the article as I'm crap at this sort of thing, the Times reported that basically they all started in fighting at the protest and shouting each other down. That's what's to be expected given the mentality involved. They'd fight with their toe nails.

    It was said a small number of locals attended with most people being from outside the area.

    A couple of locals asked said that the "silent majority" did not support this protest saying "we all have to pay our debts'


  • #3748
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Well there is a photo of Harrington (mad woman) heckling Carthy (SF).


  • #3749
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    The whole thing is ridiculous.
    Banks don't get paid back they fail, banks fail, where's your money, where are you going to get money to borrow to not pay back as the banks shouldn't be allowed to take your security for your borrowings?
    Basically stupid ridiculous people mouthing pure dung.
    I feel for anyone in the type of situation those people in strokes Town found themselves in, but realistically unless you want to Bury the country's economy, debts need to be paid back.


  • #3750
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,808 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    There is a world of diff between some one falling on hard times and some one making no effort. Actually for banking to function properly it needs a mechanism for rescuing the former. An equivalent of debtors jail never solved anything.


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  • #3751
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    listermint wrote: »
    Stick it to the man ?

    What like throwing fire bombs into people's places of employment.

    Yeah stick it to the man. Absolute crazyness

    Well, I actually just meant defiance/disobedience/grudging admiration for 'getting away with it'.

    It's a thing.

    But you had to go for the extreme, the obviously lunatic and criminal just to make your worthless pint.


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