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Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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    #2672
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »

    UDR = Ulster Defence Regiment.


    An unnamed source? Hmmm, tenuous but C+ for effort.

    Well, OK. If true, fine. One guy was ex Britsh Army...
    Still not a loyalist as some people claim.


    All over news talk and elsewhere this morning.

    All over the news... posts link from Mid West Radio....
    Eh sorry mate, have to do better than that.


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    #2673
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    Leo actually agreed with Doherty that the security firms should be licensed and what happened was not appropriate. But Doherty refused to comment on the backlash. In fact he praised the support of the local community.


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    #2674
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    irishgrover wrote: »
    IMHO, its because...
    1. People of a certain age (>40) will have a strong memory of the IRA and there various acts of violence that were seen by the vast majority of the population as immoral.
    2. There is an element of the population who believe that a disproportionate number of Sinn Fein members, and/or supporters are willing to break the law when it suits their agenda. EG rob a bank, create a rent a mob, kidnap and waterboard people they don't like etc.
    3. To an extent some people see Sinn Fein as primarily a NI political party, and thing that anything from NI is somehow inferior and not to be encouraged.
    4. Some people find Sinn Fein to be too focused on things that really do not matter that much to people outside of NI. For example, keeping the assembly closed until an Irish Language act is passed - is viewed by many as absolute parochial bollix
    5. Many people don't really rate Marylou as a politician.
    6. Many people who work for a living, especiaally those living above the poverty line, fear the SF economic policy would destroy their lives.

    NOTE: I don't actually agree all of lot of the above. These are just examples that I've heard in the past

    I am 40+ and agree with a lot of above. SF cannot answer straight questions about their dodgy past which makes them untrustworthy. Gerry not in the IRA, the brutal treatment of Maria Cahill etc

    Doherty was caught out yet again and SF know it.

    #4 exposes their inability to lead in government.
    It's a non issue.

    I do admire Mary Lou though.


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    #2675
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    facehugger99 wrote:
    It's one of the reason we are such an attractive option for FDI's. Very little chance of the economic morons getting their greasy hands on the levers of power.


    This country has been brought to the brink of economic ruin on several occasions can you point to just one time in our history when FG or FF were not at the helm when these occasions occurred. You seem to feel the two large parties are economic geniuses when all evidence suggests otherwise. Have a look at the recent commentary from the Fiscal Advisory Council about FGs latest budget. Here's a clue they weren't impressed.


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    #2676
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    markodaly wrote: »
    An unnamed source? Hmmm, tenuous but C+ for effort.

    Well, OK. If true, fine. One guy was ex Britsh Army...
    Still not a loyalist as some people claim.
    I get the sneaking suspicion mark that you might have been getting all the various U's in loyalists gangs mixed up, (UVF/UDA/UFC etc) mixed up with the UDR.

    Oops.


    All over the news... posts link from Mid West Radio....
    Eh sorry mate, have to do better than that.

    Stop embarrassing yourself.
    The Justice Minister says the suspected involvement of dissident republicans in an attack following the eviction of a Roscommon family from their home last week is a "very sinister development".

    Irish Examiner


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    #2677
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    This country has been brought to the brink of economic ruin on several occasions can you point to just one time in our history when FG or FF were not at the helm when these occasions occurred. You seem to feel the two large parties are economic geniuses when all evidence suggests otherwise. Have a look at the recent commentary from the Fiscal Advisory Council about FGs latest budget. Here's a clue they weren't impressed.

    A common logical fallacy, just because something is bad doesn't mean there's not something else worse.

    FF and FG are the best parties we have currently, if better options arises I may well vote for them.

    SF/PBP/AAA and whoever votes for them are morons on the other hand.


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    #2678
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,191 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Charlie Flanagan never said those involved were dissident republicans. The media conjured that phrase and have run with it to sensationalise the story. His direct quotes are:

    "And then more recently there appears to be involvement on the part of criminal subversives - a carefully organised plan and attack on security men.

    "That is totally unacceptable in any democratic society.

    "That matter is being investigated by the Gardaí - and I have no doubt that Commissioner Drew Harris will deal with this in order to ensure that those people, whether they're criminal subversives or otherwise, are not allowed in our democracy to take the law into their own hands,

    "There have been reports of criminal subversives - if that is the case, it's a very sinister development in our society and it must be dealt with by the Gardaí at the very earliest opportunity".


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    #2679
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    FF and FG are the best parties we have currently, if better options arises I may well vote for them.

    SF/PBP/AAA and whoever votes for them are morons on the other hand.

    Pretty much, as much as I feel FG /FF are making a mess of certain issues, I'd rather hand Bertie the keys for life then see SF, PBP or AAA in any position of power.

    The problem in Ireland isn't that people actually love FF or FG, it's that there are no credible alternatives that aren't based on rabble rousing and cheap sound bites.


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    #2680
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    facehugger99 wrote:
    SF/PBP/AAA and whoever votes for them are morons on the other hand.


    I love how certain posters on these pages try to protray their opinions and ignorance as being superior. I suggest unless you understand the meaning of certain phrases and words it would do your credibility no harm to avoid using them. Just a suggestion though.


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    #2681
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    TBH I don't see the big issue with the politics or the nationality of the contractors involved. From watching the video they conducted themselves in the manner I'd expect of people charged with turfing trespassers off property that was no longer theirs. People are making a Mount Everest out of a molehill when the real issues are a serial defaulter and tax fraud gaming the system and a rentamob turning up to beat up people they didn't like on the Sunday morning.


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    #2682
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I'd disagree with that in principle. Anyone born in Northern Ireland is entitled to be British or Irish. By the rationale you're giving, they have to choose whether they're loyalists or republicans. That's pretty awful for someone who just wants to live a 9-5 and be a normal person.

    British or Irish is just a description of someone's nationality, loyalists or republican is political.


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    #2683
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    I see a couple of people have been arrested.

    Be interesting to see who they are linked with.

    Hopefully they'll be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


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    #2684
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I see a couple of people have been arrested.

    Be interesting to see who they are linked with.

    Hopefully they'll be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    I expect to hear the phrase "known to the Gardai" at least.


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    #2685
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Buer wrote: »
    Charlie Flanagan never said those involved were dissident republicans. The media conjured that phrase and have run with it to sensationalise the story. His direct quotes are:

    "And then more recently there appears to be involvement on the part of criminal subversives - a carefully organised plan and attack on security men.

    "That is totally unacceptable in any democratic society.

    "That matter is being investigated by the Gardaí - and I have no doubt that Commissioner Drew Harris will deal with this in order to ensure that those people, whether they're criminal subversives or otherwise, are not allowed in our democracy to take the law into their own hands,

    "There have been reports of criminal subversives - if that is the case, it's a very sinister development in our society and it must be dealt with by the Gardaí at the very earliest opportunity".

    Get away with your full quotes and actual facts... this is AH, where bull$hit is taken as gospel.


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    #2686
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    I get the sneaking suspicion mark that you might have been getting all the various U's in loyalists gangs mixed up, (UVF/UDA/UFC etc) mixed up with the UDR.

    Not really. Many here claim this was a Loyalist gang with no proof of it.



    Stop embarrassing yourself.

    See the correct quote, above. Charlie Flanagan never said dissidents were involved. It's all mute really.


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    #2687
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    Buer wrote: »
    Charlie Flanagan never said those involved were dissident republicans. The media conjured that phrase and have run with it to sensationalise the story. His direct quotes are:

    "And then more recently there appears to be involvement on the part of criminal subversives - a carefully organised plan and attack on security men.

    "That is totally unacceptable in any democratic society.

    "That matter is being investigated by the Gardaí - and I have no doubt that Commissioner Drew Harris will deal with this in order to ensure that those people, whether they're criminal subversives or otherwise, are not allowed in our democracy to take the law into their own hands,

    "There have been reports of criminal subversives - if that is the case, it's a very sinister development in our society and it must be dealt with by the Gardaí at the very earliest opportunity".

    For sure Charlie, Drew Harris has a great track record with criminal subversives during his time with SB


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    #2688
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Frank Castle wrote: »
    Now I am originally from the north, protestant and a moderate unionist (not afraid of a UI) and i'm an alliance voter in the north (not decided yet down south who I would vote for). So bear in mind I come from a different perspective/lack of knowledge.

    But that said, I don't understand the hate the most people down south have for SF. where does this stem from? is it their links to the IRA? if so, what is the difference between them and FF/FG. they all have links to that type of past.
    I believe FG even have facist & anti semitic links in their past?

    Does SF get unfairly treated with their past compared to the others? and if so, why?

    (not defending SF here, but I honestly can't see the difference between the 3 parties, and as far as I can tell FF/FG may as well be the one party)

    SF are economic retards and always trying to screw middle Ireland over.


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    #2689
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    markodaly wrote:
    ... this is AH, where bull$hit is taken as gospel.

    ...or accusing posters of being Racists and Bigots is the go to when you have no point to counter them with. ;-)


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    #2690
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    nullzero wrote: »
    The thing is Mark, the term loyalist isn't a term of abuse. The man was marking himself as not being Irish, he was from the North therefor it is reasonable to describe him as a loyalist or a unionist etc...

    Not it's not. He described himself as British. If my English language is the same as yours, Britsh is not Loyalist.
    It is an assumption based on bigotry. The term in this context is used as a negative and pejorative in the sectarian sense.
    My statement was that he was a loyalist and that nobody could determine if he was a member of the UDA.

    Where you have zero proof of.......


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    #2691
    FredFunk
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭FredFunk


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I see a couple of people have been arrested.

    Be interesting to see who they are linked with.

    Hopefully they'll be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Zucherberg better order another data centre, social media is going to explode.
    Portwest rubbing theirs hands with the hi-viz sales.


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    #2692
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Frank Castle wrote: »
    Is anyone actually arguing against the eviction? rather than the methods used during the eviction?

    I know from my time working in England, that a sheriff is to only use physical force to defend themselves or the public. With the idea being to talk someone around to leaving, failing that they wait them out, as soon as the leave the property they move in and take control of it. At the end of the day, no one can remain in their house forever.

    The hard left ( that includes SF) oppose evictions full stop


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    #2693
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    SF are economic retards and always trying to screw middle Ireland over.

    More drivel from upper Ireland. Actually SF were the ones who exposed the lies from FG of the 2bn fiscal space, bad memory you have!


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    #2694
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    klaaaz wrote: »
    More drivel from upper Ireland. Actually SF were the ones who exposed the lies from FG of the 2bn fiscal space, bad memory you have!

    If I'm "upper Ireland"

    Then sinn feins friends in strokesTown are landed gentry.

    Defending rogue borrowers hurts middle Ireland.


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    #2695
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    markodaly wrote: »
    Not really. Many here claim this was a Loyalist gang with no proof of it.

    But I didn't, so, in your rush to look smart with your "oh goody" comment, now look the pleb.

    Besides this......


    British told of UDR collusion with loyalists in 1970s

    So, if your man was indeed a former UDR soldier, loyalist (or ex) would be a fairly apt description in any ones mind, least of all posters who still use IRA/Sinn Fein tags.

    Sauce for the goose and all that





    See the correct quote, above. Charlie Flanagan never said dissidents were involved. It's all mute really.

    Well I suppose we will see Charlie up in arms pretty soon at a myriad of media outlooks who appear to be deliberately misquoting him so.


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    #2696
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    FredFunk wrote: »
    Zucherberg better order another data centre, social media is going to explode.
    Portwest rubbing theirs hands with the hi-viz sales.

    Social media is going to explode alright. We'll see anti eviction heads crying for justice for their comrades and i think a few surprises will come up in terms of who gets arrested


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    #2697
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,486 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    markodaly wrote: »
    Not it's not. He described himself as British. If my English language is the same as yours, Britsh is not Loyalist.
    It is an assumption based on bigotry. The term in this context is used as a negative and pejorative in the sectarian sense.



    Where you have zero proof of.......

    There is a requirement for proof here.
    To describe a northern Irish person who identifies as British as a loyalist isn't bigoted.

    It has already been established that the term loyalist doesn't only mean somebody involved in sectarianism even though people involved in sectarianism on that side of the argument might well call themselves loyalist. They are loyal to Britain, that's the root of the term, it doesn't make them terrorists or inheritly bad people it's a simple description and not bigoted.

    The context it was used in was as a simple description based upon the persons description of themself. I then said that they could not be assumed to be a member of the UDA which was agreeing with the point you made but for some reason you completely ignored that, moved on to say that I had accused the man of being a UDA member and then called me a racist and a bigot.

    I just don't know what the hell is wrong with you Mark, you seem to have some deep seated issues that I hope you can get help with.


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    #2698
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    least of all posters who still use IRA/Sinn Fein tags.

    Sauce for the goose and all that

    Well since most higher ups in Sinn Fien/IRA turned out to be British Moles, perhaps we can extend the term Loyalists to SF/IRA as well? :pac:






    Well I suppose we will see Charlie up in arms pretty soon at a myriad of media outlooks who appear to be deliberately misquoting him so.

    Why would he? Papers didn't start misquoting people today and they won't be stopping tomorrow. Don't act innocent.


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    #2699
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    nullzero wrote: »
    There is a requirement for proof here.

    Yes, from you. To describe this person as being 'clearly a Loyalist.
    You made the statement, back it up with some proof.

    Spend less time feigning hurt and dig out the proof, otherwise just admit that perhaps you made an assumption and examine your own conscience that perhaps you made that statement from a bigoted, sectarian lens.


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    #2700
    simongurnick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭simongurnick


    jmayo wrote: »
    Eh no we lean to the side of honest decent people.

    So where do you stand on people not paying the VAT due to the state?

    You do know how VAT works, right ?
    You pay VAT on top of your purchase, be it goods or services.
    Then that VAT is meant to be paid onto the state.
    Except what this chancer did was he decided to keep some of it for himself.
    So forgive me for leaning to the side of me, a fellow taxpayer of this state and a user of services from this state.

    I wish to fook Irish people would grow up and realise that there isn't some mythical system, ala the British occupiers of long ago, that we can screw over.
    We are all the system and when you screw the system you are ultimately screwing your fellow citizens.

    In this precise instance the guy not repaying his bank loan is screwing fellow bank customers, ordinary decent people paying mortgages and loans.
    Oh and the fact that KBC divested themselves of that loan to some fund, be it vulture or not, means they took a major loss on it.
    That cost is borne ultimately by the other customers of the bank.

    So do you agree that private security firms from outside the state should be allowed to assault our citizens under the watch of the guards?


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    #2701
    Fiftyfilthy
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Fiftyfilthy


    markodaly wrote: »
    Not it's not. He described himself as British. If my English language is the same as yours, Britsh is not Loyalist.
    It is an assumption based on bigotry. The term in this context is used as a negative and pejorative in the sectarian sense.



    Where you have zero proof of.......

    100% agree. If someone called myself irish, I would politely correct them that I am not. This does not equate to being a loyalist or a unionist but someone who is correcting another person over their nationality.

    All this loyalism rubbish that is being bandied around on social media certainly seems to attract the brain dead similar to flies to ****.


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