Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

Frank Castle

gandalf wrote: »

And remember when they do get in Government they run away when the going gets tough like they have in Northern Ireland blaming the other side. Their bloody modus operandi "but but look at the other guys...". No political responsibility and no personal responsibility seems to be the Sinn Fein mantra!

now in fairness, SF did have an agreement met with DUP to reform, and the DUP pulled out under orders of their own grass roots. At the end of the day the DUP are in with the tories and do not need stormont up and running.

This causes great upset with the other parties. Don't get me wrong SF could do more but the DUP are the real problem.
I just wish everyone in the north would vote alliance.... not that I'm biased or anything :P

Plumbthedepths

gandalf wrote:

And remember when they do get in Government they run away when the going gets tough like they have in Northern Ireland blaming the other side. Their bloody modus operandi "but but look at the other guys...". No political responsibility and no personal responsibility seems to be the Sinn Fein mantra!

Very simplistic view on why the Northern Executive failed, but I suppose it plays to a narrative. Sorry but hasn't FG's defence for the last 7 odd years being to any challenge from FF" look what ye did" .To be honest they are all same it just depends on which team you are a supporter that allows you ignore your team's hypocrisy.

irishgrover

Frank Castle wrote: »

Now I am originally from the north, protestant and a moderate unionist (not afraid of a UI) and i'm an alliance voter in the north (not decided yet down south who I would vote for). So bear in mind I come from a different perspective/lack of knowledge.
But that said, I don't understand the hate the most people down south have for SF. where does this stem from? is it their links to the IRA? if so, what is the difference between them and FF/FG. they all have links to that type of past.
I believe FG even have facist & anti semitic links in their past?
Does SF get unfairly treated with their past compared to the others? and if so, why?
(not defending SF here, but I honestly can't see the difference between the 3 parties, and as far as I can tell FF/FG may as well be the one party)

IMHO, its because...
1. People of a certain age (>40) will have a strong memory of the IRA and there various acts of violence that were seen by the vast majority of the population as immoral.
2. There is an element of the population who believe that a disproportionate number of Sinn Fein members, and/or supporters are willing to break the law when it suits their agenda. EG rob a bank, create a rent a mob, kidnap and waterboard people they don't like etc.
3. To an extent some people see Sinn Fein as primarily a NI political party, and thing that anything from NI is somehow inferior and not to be encouraged.
4. Some people find Sinn Fein to be too focused on things that really do not matter that much to people outside of NI. For example, keeping the assembly closed until an Irish Language act is passed - is viewed by many as absolute parochial bollix
5. Many people don't really rate Marylou as a politician.
6. Many people who work for a living, especiaally those living above the poverty line, fear the SF economic policy would destroy their lives.

NOTE: I don't actually agree all of lot of the above. These are just examples that I've heard in the past

jmayo

cameramonkey wrote: »

What about the bankers and developers and at least one government minister who didn't repay their debts?

simongurnick wrote: »

But that's the point. They are not comparable. In one case the farmer is being held to the consequences of not supporting the debt. In the case of the banks etc. the vast vast majority weren't.

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

That's the problem it's a lack of responsibility /accountability from the top down. So the ordinary Joe sees the big boys getting away with it and says feck it sure I'll give it a go to . If there was a real sense of leadership in the country as opposed to the elected lining their own purse it'd prob trickle down along the line.

cameramonkey wrote: »

I have no problem paying back loans I have taken. I have a mortgage and a business loan, I have never not paid on any debt ever, even when it was difficult for me.
The country has created a situation where banks and developers have a culture of getting debt forgiven, why is it a surprise when ordinary people take the same stance?

Ok lets put this shyte out of the way.

A lot of people round here, are chomping on about "the banks this that and the other", the bailout, the bankrupt developers.

And this then is somehow an excuse for this chancer McCann not repaying his bank debts owed to KBC.

So lads/lassies answer me this ...
how come McCann was engaging in defaulting on his bank debts way back in 1997 to 2002 ?

Was he just getting in ahead of the bank bailout that happened in 2008 onwards?

Mr McCann was ahead of the curve as they say.
Or maybe he was modelling himself on the much beloved by chancers, the king of all cute hoors cj haughey?

I dispair that people are actually defending this shytehead who it seems has spent half his life screwing people over.
And yes he has.

He has defaulted on numerous bank loans, car loans and his statutory duty to pass on VAT to the revenue, i.e. the citizens and taxpayers of the state.

heroics

Frank Castle wrote: »

Is anyone actually arguing against the eviction? rather than the methods used during the eviction?

I know from my time working in England, that a sheriff is to only use physical force to defend themselves or the public. With the idea being to talk someone around to leaving, failing that they wait them out, as soon as the leave the property they move in and take control of it. At the end of the day, no one can remain in their house forever.

There are plenty of people on this thread arguing against the eviction regardless of how it’s done.

How long are they supposed to just wait them out? No one person can stay forever but 3 people and their friends could certainly drag it out for a long time.

In this case there were debts that have been reported of over 750€ thousand between revenue, bank and local businesses. They have been serially ignoring paying anyone back, ignoring court orders etc. Offering to pay €1000 a month after they have been kicked out when court proceeding started 9 years ago is a joke and was only done to try and make them look better. It will only take another 60 odd years to repay the debts that we know of without any interest accruing.

These people had plenty of opportunities to either engage with the debtors , start paying or leave the property peacefully.

Unfortunately. They decided that they are better than everyone else and don’t need to pay taxes or their debts.

They have no one to blame for their forced eviction except themselves.

Faugheen

nice_guy80 wrote: »

wow.
take off the FG hat.

what Varadkar said in the Dail yesterday was a disgrace

Varadkar was absolutely right in what he said in the Dail yesterday.

Why did Pearse Doherty not even acknowledge the actions by the mob who set cars on fire and killed an innocent dog?

Explain to me how that is disgraceful?

gandalf

Frank Castle wrote: »

now in fairness, SF did have an agreement met with DUP to reform, and the DUP pulled out under orders of their own grass roots. At the end of the day the DUP are in with the tories and do not need stormont up and running.

This causes great upset with the other parties. Don't get me wrong SF could do more but the DUP are the real problem.
I just wish everyone in the north would vote alliance.... not that I'm biased or anything :P

I'm not mitigating the DUP from this but if Sinn Fein had real gumption they would force the issue and try and sideline the DUP. They don't want that, they do not want to be in power in Stormont until Brexit is sorted. They are hanging back like cowards. I deal with organisations in the North, I'm up there on a regular basis and everyone I talk (from all sides of the community) agree that the politicians are hiding from their responsibilities because of Brexit.

For example Public Sector budgets are all over the place because there is no functioning executive. People are fed up with the impasse.

gandalf

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Very simplistic view on why the Northern Executive failed, but I suppose it plays to a narrative. Sorry but hasn't FG's defence for the last 7 odd years being to any challenge from FF" look what ye did" .To be honest they are all same it just depends on which team you are a supporter that allows you ignore your team's hypocrisy.

I'm up the North every week, it's the feeling on the ground from the PS and Business. And for balance the DUP and SF are held in equal disdain for the farce that's going on.

maccored

hynesie08 wrote: »

Luckily the majority of these people either don't vote or will somehow spoil it by writing no beside every non SF Candidate in permanent marker because Facebook told them that the "gubbermint" changes your vote......

what absolute tosh - quite like the rubbish you'd find on facebook.

gctest50

Press Release from the McGann parasites :


“The forced eviction from our home has left our family shocked by unforeseen events that were thrust upon us.

"There were at least seven communications between the local sheriff and/or the sheriff's messenger and Mr McGann.

On September 18, the property was visited by the messenger and it is understood Mr McGann was informed of the date that possession would take place.

It appears he was given further time in September to make arrangements or engage with the bank. On December 9, a further visit confirmed the date and time for possession, December 11 at 1pm."

- https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/farmer-was-informed-of-repossession-of-property-seven-times-37639971.html

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

Yes



Possibly.



Nope.

You do not know his religion, you do not know what 'community' he belongs to, you do not know his politics.
You are making a judgment purely based on identity and accent. That is bigoted.

The fact is you do not know this person, so you cannot make a call on what he is or isnt.

A loyalist in the north is someone who is loyal to the crown and the british government. If someone from the north identifies themselves as british in the way the fella in the video did (as in, he wasnt irish, he was british), then theres a high chance such people have a loyalist outlook. Thats just logic.

Frank Castle

gandalf wrote: »

I'm not mitigating the DUP from this but if Sinn Fein had real gumption they would force the issue and try and sideline the DUP. They don't want that, they do not want to be in power in Stormont until Brexit is sorted. They are hanging back like cowards. I deal with organisations in the North, I'm up there on a regular basis and everyone I talk (from all sides of the community) agree that the politicians are hiding from their responsibilities because of Brexit.

For example Public Sector budgets are all over the place because there is no functioning executive. People are fed up with the impasse.

Don't get me wrong SF are just as useless as the DUP. But with how the assembly has to work by law, there is no way for SF to sideline the DUP. They have to go into power together as the 2 biggest parties from each side. That is simply the rules.
And as I said, the DUP have no interest in power sharing because while they are in bed with the tories they are defacto in charge by themselves.

You will see how quickly power sharing is resumed after the tories drop the DUP.

Unfortunately for everyone in the north, that will be post brexit, which will cripple the north unless they push the deal through.

The biggest problem is we in the north never learn... no matter what there will be SF and DUP votes just to stick it to the other side. The north would be better served being run from england or dublin

Plumbthedepths

Frank Castle wrote:

The biggest problem is we in the north never learn... no matter what there will be SF and DUP votes just to stick it to the other side. The north would be better served being run from england or dublin

Swap SF and DUP for FG and FF in the Republic. The only time this country behaved properly was when the Troika was watching the lads closely.

gandalf

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Swap SF and DUP for FG and FF in the Republic. The only time this country behaved properly was when the Troika was watching the lads closely.

TBH FF and FG should get on with merging. Different sides of the same coin.

markodaly

nullzero wrote: »

Talk about clutching at straws.

He identified HIMSELF as British, for the last bloody time. He made a statement about HIS OWN identity.

Therefore you can claim that he is British, but what you actually said was that he was 'clearly a loyalist'. Not the same thing.

That is a bigoted response to the earlier question I asked, is there ANY proof that these security men have loyalist connections.

Seeing as I have asked this a number of times and no evidence of such has been presented, I can safely say the statement is debunked.

Plumbthedepths

gandalf wrote:

TBH FF and FG should get on with merging. Different sides of the same coin.

There's no difference between them, hilarious that people think we have an effective legislative when FG and FF are in a confidence and supply programme. Controlling government and also the largest opposition party.

Plumbthedepths

markodaly wrote:

That is a bigoted response to the earlier question I asked, is there ANY proof that these security men have loyalist connections.

You have used the words "bigot " and "racist" to label other posters when they are more than likely simply wrong in their assertions or you disagree with them. This free for all of throwing around these descriptive words debases their meaning and allows real Bigots and Racists to brush off the term.

markodaly

Ordinary man wrote: »

Sinn fein have played a blinder on this one. Instead of this being a simple case of repossession from a chancer who doesn't pay his debts, it's been turned into a sectarian issue. They are pushing the angle of loyalists coming down like the black and tans from 100 years ago and the idiots who use facebook to get their daily news updates have lapped it up.

That is all well and good if Sinn Fein wants to stir up the pot, get some Facebook Likes and basically be a mouthpiece of perpetual opposition. Yet, at the next GE people will be wondering if these guys can be trusted in government. Middle Ireland will say, no ****ing way. They will forever be in the 'teens support wise.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Therefore you can claim that he is British, but what you actually said was that he was 'clearly a loyalist'. Not the same thing.

That is a bigoted response to the earlier question I asked, is there ANY proof that these security men have loyalist connections.

Seeing as I have asked this a number of times and no evidence of such has been presented, I can safely say the statement is debunked.

No doubt you'll be dismissing the same claims from Charlie Flannigan that the lads who arrived to send the lads back up home with their tails between the legs were dissident republicans.

:cool:

backspin.

In circumstances like this where the bank think they will not be able to sell the property after taking legal possession. They should just bulldoz it.

These people didn't pay their debts they have no business remaining in that house.

It may be a loss to the bank but it's a lesson to people that there are consequences for not payment of debts.

markodaly

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

And to top it off, aren't the family back in the property, meaning the eviction by a gang of people who identified themselves as British with northern accents, some with UDR connections, wasn't just futile, but in fact possibly counter productive?
.

Oh goody, another one.
Proof of this, please?

markodaly

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

No doubt you'll be dismissing the same claims from Charlie Flannigan that the lads who arrived to send the lads back up home with their tails between the legs were dissident republicans.

:cool:

Charlie Flannigan said that? Quote him please!

Plumbthedepths

Beginning to wonder is this the Politics Forum or After hours. Proof and quotes being sought. How about read the papers yourself or listen to the news media?

markodaly

hynesie08 wrote: »

Yeah, must have been a huge surprise that after 15 years non-payment and a court order to leave, they were expected to y'know....... Leave.....

I know right. That was a statement written by a politician. Spent more time giving out about Leo than actually addressing his own issue.
Never stated any facts or cleared up any misconceptions that are out there.
It was just, 'Poor us, why can't we be just left in peace and forget about the money we owe'

Utter garbage and chancers they are.

nullzero

markodaly wrote: »

Therefore you can claim that he is British, but what you actually said was that he was 'clearly a loyalist'. Not the same thing.

That is a bigoted response to the earlier question I asked, is there ANY proof that these security men have loyalist connections.

Seeing as I have asked this a number of times and no evidence of such has been presented, I can safely say the statement is debunked.

The thing is Mark, the term loyalist isn't a term of abuse. The man was marking himself as not being Irish, he was from the North therefor it is reasonable to describe him as a loyalist or a unionist etc...

You have some nerve to say my "statement is debunked".
My statement was that he was a loyalist and that nobody could determine if he was a member of the UDA. I was in essence agreeing with what you said and you picked at the term loyalist and started calling me a bigot and a racist. Nobody on the thread who read what you said about me felt it was reasonable. I reported your posts as they were libelous and nothing was done.
You're a deeply unpleasant individual Mark, the bare faced cheek of you to call me a racist and a bigot you should be ashamed of yourself, but you're clearly far too narcissistic for that.

Buer

venusdoom wrote: »

Frank Castle, exactly the questions on my mind too. From reading opinions of SF on boards from the past few years, there is an association with SF still being an IRA party and supporters of SF to be supporters of IRA & violent behaviour. Just like Varadkar tarred Doherty with that brush yesterday..

It doesn't help that they still have sitting TDs who are convicted IRA members.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Oh goody, another one.
Proof of this, please?

Ian Gordon is an ex-British soldier who served with the Royal Irish Regiment and the Ulster Defence Regiment.

UDR = Ulster Defence Regiment.

markodaly wrote: »

Charlie Flannigan said that? Quote him please!

Jesus Christ do you even listen to the news?

All over news talk and elsewhere this morning. :pac:




The Justice Minister says the suspected involvement of dissident republicans following the eviction of a Co Roscommon family from their home last week is a "very sinister development".

Ordinary man

markodaly wrote: »

That is all well and good if Sinn Fein wants to stir up the pot, get some Facebook Likes and basically be a mouthpiece of perpetual opposition. Yet, at the next GE people will be wondering if these guys can be trusted in government. Middle Ireland will say, no ****ing way. They will forever be in the 'teens support wise.

It's kinda like celtic and rangers. Without the sectarian angle they wouldn't have near the levels of support they have. So they push that angle anyway they can. It's not about ideals and beliefs, it's about power and money

facehugger99

Faugheen wrote: »

Why did Pearse Doherty not even acknowledge the actions by the mob who set cars on fire and killed an innocent dog?

Fellow good republican involvement methinks

facehugger99

gandalf wrote: »

TBH FF and FG should get on with merging. Different sides of the same coin.

Certainly not. Would be a Shinner wet dream.

Current status is fine. Allows Ireland to chuck one of them out of office and still keep a moderate Government in place.

It's one of the reason we are such an attractive option for FDI's. Very little chance of the economic morons getting their greasy hands on the levers of power.