Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 05:24PM

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Stop will ye ? The reason Pogba wasn't involved yesterday is because his performances were worse than the players who played against Liverpool leading up to the game. Think the discussion is a lot larger than yesterday's game to be fair

Yet Pogba wasn't playing yesterday and it was another horror show with little change from the many of those we've already had this season. So Pogbas exclusion changed nothing. Yet its the only thing some want to talk about today. Heaven forbid Jose gets some scrutiny.

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 05:28PM

Imagine telling a United fan the day Fergie left in 7 years , Ashley young will be captain and playing as a full back

Sums it all up really ,

Mitch Connor · 17-12-2018 05:45PM

Liam O wrote: »

Where should the new manager play him? He can't or doesn't want to play in the 2 deep lying midfielders and has shown that he is fairly useless being the main CAM. Multiple players bought to unlock his potential and he has only regressed.

So he is a player that you say can't play anywhere but played consistently for title winning Juve and World Cup winning France.

But he is incapable of playing football.

17-12-2018 05:49PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So he is a player that you say can't play anywhere but played consistently for title winning Juve and World Cup winning France.

But he is incapable of playing football.

He played consistently in a very defined role in them which he has never shown much interest in doing for United. Can't play in a 2 as he doesn't defend or put in the effort like he did for France. Can't play in a 3 as he takes too much out of the ball and tries to do everything himself. There is a great player there, I've just given up hope that we will see it.

Drumpot · 17-12-2018 05:50PM

Julez wrote: »

I think we're largely going around in circles here, but does anyone disagree with the following:
Jose: Tactics, system, methods, whatever... its not working with the team and players we have.

Woodward/Board: Seems lost from a footballing perspective. Knock on throughout the whole club, academy, scouting etc. by all accounts we seem to have dropped off the pace of top clubs in favour only of commercial success

Player Quality: Far too many average players... Smalling, Young, Rojo, Darmain... Could list a good few more. In general, these players are fine squad players that every team needs, we just have too many hanging around.

Player Attitude: Some players don't really seem too arsed about how we're playing, some downed tools perhaps, a trend we saw with Moyes and LVG also.

Player Performance: Our players are playing bad. We know a lot of our players are playing worse than they technically should be. Players failing to make simple passes, things that aren't coached, just technically poor execution

TL:DR we're fooked.

This is a fairly decent summary . . I would add that player/manager signings are a massive issue. No player or manager who have joined us have enhanced their reputation. Maybe Zlatan. Why is that so ?

The club has cancer all over and the doctors are too busy squeezing every penny out of the medical insurance to actually worry about what the patient really needs . . . .

bangkok · 17-12-2018 06:07PM

Liam O wrote: »

He played consistently in a very defined role in them which he has never shown much interest in doing for United. Can't play in a 2 as he doesn't defend or put in the effort like he did for France. Can't play in a 3 as he takes too much out of the ball and tries to do everything himself. There is a great player there, I've just given up hope that we will see it.

Under mourinho we wont see it anyway

fatherted1969 · 17-12-2018 06:29PM

bangkok wrote: »

Liam O wrote: »

He played consistently in a very defined role in them which he has never shown much interest in doing for United. Can't play in a 2 as he doesn't defend or put in the effort like he did for France. Can't play in a 3 as he takes too much out of the ball and tries to do everything himself. There is a great player there, I've just given up hope that we will see it.

Under mourinho we wont see it anyway

Honestly whoever scouted him should be shown the door if they thought he was the answer to our needs. Unable to play in a two man midfield and barely makes an impact with two holding midfielders behind him. For the money spent he surely had to have the ability to adapt his game to suit different opponents. Has zero awareness of what's needed in his role. We lost to West Brom last year at Old Trafford with Herrera and Matic behind him. It's astonishing to think we played 2 holding midfielders against the worst team in the league and still lost. I've said it before that Utd shouldn't ever play 2 holding midfielders against at least 14 teams in the league, it's behind shocking to give the likes of West Brom that type of respect. I gave up on Pogba that night. Brainless footballer

bangkok · 17-12-2018 06:33PM

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Honestly whoever scouted him should be shown the door if they thought he was the answer to our needs. Unable to play in a two man midfield and barely makes an impact with two holding midfielders behind him. For the money spent he surely had to have the ability to adapt his game to suit different opponents. Has zero awareness of what's needed in his role. We lost to West Brom last year at Old Trafford with Herrera and Matic behind him. It's astonishing to think we played 2 holding midfielders against the worst team in the league and still lost. I've said it before that Utd shouldn't ever play 2 holding midfielders against at least 14 teams in the league, it's behind shocking to give the likes of West Brom that type of respect. I gave up on Pogba that night. Brainless footballer

Maybe we lost as we played 2 defensive midfielders AT HOME to west brom...

Jose sets us up defensively no1, attacking no2. Its laughable considering the players we have

thegreengoblin · 17-12-2018 06:41PM

People focusing too much on Pogba and the problems in midfield if a new coach comes in. The main priority in this team right now is the defence. Whoever comes in needs to get the defence organised and solid. Once that's done the rest will follow, and it will follow relatively quickly too. I'm not trying to oversimplify this but history has shown again and again that if a team can't defend then you may as well forget about it.

I have to say despite all the despair, that Fellaini shot which hit the steward is keeping me going today. It's actually impossible not to roll around laughing at it...:pac:

17-12-2018 07:03PM

bangkok wrote: »

Under mourinho we wont see it anyway

Mourinho has tried him in all of his supposed best positions and has bought players to facilitate Pogba. As I said previously I've only recently given up on him and defended him for a good while but he can get stuffed as far as I'm concerned.

DM_7 · 17-12-2018 07:06PM

thegreengoblin wrote: »

People focusing too much on Pogba and the problems in midfield if a new coach comes in. The main priority in this team right now is the defence. Whoever comes in needs to get the defence organised and solid. Once that's done the rest will follow, and it will follow relatively quickly too. I'm not trying to oversimplify this but history has shown again and again that if a team can't defend then you may as well forget about it.

I have to say despite all the despair, that Fellaini shot which hit the steward is keeping me going today. It's actually impossible not to roll around laughing at it...:pac:

Issues in defence are caused by what happens on front of it. The lack of a team press and team approach to defence is a major problem.

United retreat and concede ground, make it easy to get at them and into the areas teams want to play them. Better sides practice breaking teams down who play that way. Agsinst lesser sides United retreat when they lose the ball and make it easy for a counter attack to get yo a danger area.

Much of Uniteds recent moderate success has come from premium paid for individuals not good team play.

Its just not good enough in any way.

fatherted1969 · 17-12-2018 07:12PM

bangkok wrote: »

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Honestly whoever scouted him should be shown the door if they thought he was the answer to our needs. Unable to play in a two man midfield and barely makes an impact with two holding midfielders behind him. For the money spent he surely had to have the ability to adapt his game to suit different opponents. Has zero awareness of what's needed in his role. We lost to West Brom last year at Old Trafford with Herrera and Matic behind him. It's astonishing to think we played 2 holding midfielders against the worst team in the league and still lost. I've said it before that Utd shouldn't ever play 2 holding midfielders against at least 14 teams in the league, it's behind shocking to give the likes of West Brom that type of respect. I gave up on Pogba that night. Brainless footballer

Maybe we lost as we played 2 defensive midfielders AT HOME to west brom...

Jose sets us up defensively no1, attacking no2. Its laughable considering the players we have

Supposedly it's the only way to get the best out of him in the forward position in a 3 man midfield. You look at the first choice midfield of City and Silva and De Bruyne there and youd think that is a bit lightweight and open but no, those 2 have the willingness to go back in the opposite direction as well. For whatever reason Paul Pogba doesn't seem to want to know the basics of the central midfield position he's supposed to be so good at. Blame the manager if you want but that's the absolute basics of his position, awareness of when to push on or when to cover goes over his head way too much

eagle eye · 17-12-2018 07:14PM

Liam O wrote:

Mourinho has tried him in all of his supposed best positions and has bought players to facilitate Pogba. As I said previously I've only recently given up on him and defended him for a good while but he can get stuffed as far as I'm concerned.

Do you find it amazing then that he has played so well for the only two other teams he has been with, namely Juventus and France?

LiamoSail · 17-12-2018 07:25PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you find it amazing then that he has played so well for the only two other teams he has been with, namely Juventus and France?

Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Depay, Mkhitaryan and Martial have all looked excellent elsewhere.

There's a pattern here and one likely to be repeated should the root cause not be addressed.

I can't imagine any manager coming in would be happier with the current United squad less Pogba than with, particularly given United's appeal to the top level of players has diminished significantly relative to the appeal they previously held.

By all means sell the above players, but it's unlikely they'll be able to replace them with players capable of reaching the level the above have previously shown themselves capable of

17-12-2018 07:25PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you find it amazing then that he has played so well for the only two other teams he has been with, namely Juventus and France?

I do find it amazing that he looks so disinterested and lazy when playing for United, yes.

GSPfan · 17-12-2018 07:28PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Imagine telling a United fan the day Fergie left in 7 years , Ashley young will be captain and playing as a full back

Sums it all up really ,

Imagine telling Liverpool fans Jordan Henderson would be captain. It’s meaningless when out of context.

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 07:39PM

Liam O wrote: »

I do find it amazing that he looks so disinterested and lazy when playing for United, yes.

Don't underestimate the effect a toxic relationship with your boss and that kind of atmosphere in general can have. If you dread working for a guy and are worried what he could say to the press next your not going to be at your best.

Pogba has been undoubtedly poor and deserved a benching but I'm not sure what we are seeing is his best. If a new manager comes in and can motivate and inspire him then we could see vast improvement, if not then we can move him on. Jose's throw them under the bus tactic motivation tactic may have worked with a different generation of players but he can't seem to get many players at UTD playing their best for him and he looks unwilling to change. It's gonna be death by stubbornness and some nasty interviews when he leaves, thats how it usually plays out in his 3rd season.

17-12-2018 07:48PM

TheDoc wrote: »

It's a bit of a side note, but really, where are McKenna and Carrick in all of this.

I'm going to assume that Jose treats them like "you should be grateful you get to work with me" but I'd such hopes with McKenna coming in with what he had done previous with his work. Hopefully two bright young coaches arn't being absolutely tarnished or downtrodden in this mess.

Yeah that's been a major disappointment for me. With the coaching shake-up before the Summer, especially the hiring of McKenna and Stefano Rapetti never mind the unproven Coach Carrick, I was expecting a change for the better. However, it's almost like the new coaches came in and said 'Right, how do we get these lads playing even worse?' Seriously, it's been the football equivalent of wiping a messy arse with more shíte.

And that's not a personal dig at the new coaches themselves, just an observation on the effect their hiring has had on our already poor brand of football.

Like, what do they say to Lukaku on the training ground? Do they just skirt around the fact that he has absolutely no first touch? Do they say to Juan Mata "Lovely stuff, but for the match Jose is probably just going to have it lumped up to Fellani/Lukaku instead while you sit on the bench, but keep up the good work"?

It's hard to imagine just what the training ground is like these days. It's been months since we saw Jose and Pogba have words over a fúcking Instagram post. Since then, it seems the mood around the club has only festered further. The pay is good for the players and senior staff of course, but I can't imagine that going to work at Manchester United is too much fun at the moment for anyone.

Never mind what the money is like for the players, never mind what trophies are being won or not won, if you start to hate a job in a profession you love, you're going to move on somewhere else where you can find that love again.

I think 'Toxic' is one of those words which is overused these days (in general, not in here specifically) but I can only imagine that the atmosphere is toxic around OT and Carrington lately. I wonder just where the new fitness coaches fit into all of this and if they are regretting any career choices.

xtal191 wrote: »

Its like we signed Sanchez and Fred just to stop City getting them

Ah now, that's a bit of a wild theory. As if Jose would do that.

Willian go way with those crazy notions.

eagle eye · 17-12-2018 07:51PM

Liam O wrote:

I do find it amazing that he looks so disinterested and lazy when playing for United, yes.

Do you find it strange that Sanchez also doesn't look anything near the level he showed elsewhere?
Would the common denominator be Jose Mourinho?
Imo the man hasn't been the same since the second season of his second spell at Chelsea.

thegreengoblin · 17-12-2018 08:08PM

DM_7 wrote: »

Issues in defence are caused by what happens on front of it. The lack of a team press and team approach to defence is a major problem.

United retreat and concede ground, make it easy to get at them and into the areas teams want to play them. Better sides practice breaking teams down who play that way. Agsinst lesser sides United retreat when they lose the ball and make it easy for a counter attack to get yo a danger area.

Much of Uniteds recent moderate success has come from premium paid for individuals not good team play.

Its just not good enough in any way.

That is true to an extent but it all comes down to the question of whether the defence is reliable enough to prevent teams from scoring goals.

Over the last two seasons United's defensive record was actually very good but the brilliance of De Gea masked so many problems. No one was fooled. The man can only do so much though and this season United have shipped a truly shocking amount of goals. Mistakes are commonplace, players are losing track of where they're supposed to be, there is just no organisation. A new coach will work on this straight away.

Beechwoodspark · 17-12-2018 08:10PM

Ken earlys article on Mourinho today in the Irish Times sums it up for me. Jose-fcuk off and don’t let the door hit you on the way out ye gowl ye

Headshot · 17-12-2018 08:10PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ken earlys article on Mourinho today in the Irish Times sums it up for me. Jose-fcuk off and don’t let the door hit you on the way out ye gowl ye

Link?

Beechwoodspark · 17-12-2018 08:11PM

Headshot wrote: »

Link?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/ken-early-mourinho-is-the-manager-manchester-united-deserve-1.3733427

Rayne Wooney · 17-12-2018 08:17PM

We badly need marquee signings in both attacking midfield and centre back.

City spent 60 million on Laporte. 50 million on Stones, Liverpool spent eleventy billion on Van Dijk, we took cheapish punts on Bailly and Lindelov that have failed. Our defence cannot build an attack, Jose has mentioned this a number of times and he is correct.

We need a working defence, two good full backs and a centre back that can pass the ball, at the moment we are working with crumbling foundations with Ashley Young, Jones, Smalling and Valencia getting games.

Mantis Toboggan · 17-12-2018 08:38PM

Almost every player Jose has signed has been a flop so as clueless as Woodward is I can't see him being stupid enough to give Jose more money. Isn't that the definition of stupidity.

DM_7 · 17-12-2018 08:39PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We badly need marquee signings in both attacking midfield and centre back.

City spent 60 million on Laporte. 50 million on Stones, Liverpool spent eleventy billion on Van Dijk, we took cheapish punts on Bailly and Lindelov that have failed. Our defence cannot build an attack, Jose has mentioned this a number of times and he is correct.

We need a working defence, two good full backs and a centre back that can pass the ball, at the moment we are working with crumbling foundations with Ashley Young, Jones, Smalling and Valencia getting games.

It is possible to make astute deals that improve the side. Throwing buckets of money at anything is pointless unless it is done sensibly.

Liverpool for example also bought Robertson, developed Gomez, signed Wijnaldum and Shaqiri from relegated sides. Identified Salah when he chose to sign for Chelsea then went back for him later under a different manager.

When City bought Stones they paid a premium to get and English player but also had to develop him to make him worthy of his transfer fee. Same with Sterling.

Jose loves making excuses or saying how great he used to be. It is a shame he has not brought on one player while at United. He has failed with Rashford, Martial and Shaw as younger players. His major signings all look like they should not have been signed.

Jose has worked with 15 of the 20 (7 of the top 10) most expensive signings in club history yet wanted more new shiny things. Didn't get them and acted like a spoilt child.

Rayne Wooney · 17-12-2018 08:48PM

Whether Jose has failed or not with this squad remains to be seen.

If the next manager also fails, which I believe he will barring a miracle, I wonder what people will say then.

bangkok · 17-12-2018 08:50PM

Liam O wrote: »

Mourinho has tried him in all of his supposed best positions and has bought players to facilitate Pogba. As I said previously I've only recently given up on him and defended him for a good while but he can get stuffed as far as I'm concerned.

Bought who exactly 50m fred... wont play him?

secman · 17-12-2018 08:51PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Whether Jose has failed or not with this squad remains to be seen.

If the next manager also fails, which I believe he will barring a miracle, I wonder what people will say then.

Whether...fcking whether... are you serious or just trying to wind people up... whether my hole

bangkok · 17-12-2018 08:52PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Depay, Mkhitaryan and Martial have all looked excellent elsewhere.

There's a pattern here and one likely to be repeated should the root cause not be addressed.

I can't imagine any manager coming in would be happier with the current United squad less Pogba than with, particularly given United's appeal to the top level of players has diminished significantly relative to the appeal they previously held.

By all means sell the above players, but it's unlikely they'll be able to replace them with players capable of reaching the level the above have previously shown themselves capable of

You can add lingard and rashford when they are away with england to that list.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

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