Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 12:40PM

GSPfan wrote: »

Not to make too much of a deal about race but as a pale Irish white guy I don’t understand any of the dancing regardless of age or context. The black lads love their dancing and hand shakes etc. so I’ve just put it down as something I don’t understand and it bothers me less and less.

8-10 · 17-12-2018 12:53PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

At Liverpool I can only think of Firmino who does a dance when he scores and he's not black

GSPfan · 17-12-2018 12:56PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do they really ? What other " black lads" do you see dancing at the top end of football ?

At Liverpool I can only think of Firmino who does a dance when he scores and he's not black ,

Lingard and Pogba seem to be dancing and playing patter cake every day in the changing room ,
Neither does it when they score , or do they ?

Not going to answer that as it goes down a stupid route of naming players who dance and who don’t. Next we’ll be referencing Giggs and Sharpe doing their dance.
If you don’t agree then continue to let it annoy you.

How Soon Is Now · 17-12-2018 12:57PM

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 12:57PM

8-10 wrote: »

Good shout forgot about Studge,

Rayne Wooney · 17-12-2018 12:59PM

Liam O wrote: »

While I would agree with a lot of your opinions on the club at the moment I believe that there is a risk that you are letting José away with a lot in the above. He should be doing better with the team and has responded very badly to the issues at boardroom, playing players he clearly doesn't fancy out of spite and pretty much sabotaging the team which is also inexcusable.

I think the reason I'm so apathetic to the club at the moment is because there's just not one area that I'd be optimistic about. It's obviously gotten to the stage where he can't turn it around without literally an entire new squad. Pogba's friends are Rashford, Martial and Lingard seemingly and they are the only inkling of bright lights at the club so it's not a salvageable situation. But the club have created this situation by giving him the contract and not backing him and it's now in the situation where absolutely everyone's reputation is suffering for it.

I am very aware of your point and it’s not wrong. Jose has gone mental there is no arguing that, but you could see it coming from a mile off, he had done this right before we signed him under almost the exact same circumstances at another club. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity we’ve been told.

The fact of the matter is we have done fúck all to try and win the league this coming season, Liverpool have probably overtaken us and realistically 3rd is what we are playing for. This probably means Jose will walk during or be sacked at the end of the season.

There will be the usual people who scoff at writing off a season before a ball is kicked, the same people that couldn’t see our season was over in December last year.

I posted the above on the 8th of August, if your average football fan like myself could see it coming what were the people that are being paid millions to run a football club doing?

It was certain that Mourinho was going to go off the rails if he wasn’t given what he wanted, we knew this before we signed him, we knew this when he was managing us, we knew this when we gave him a contract extension. So who do you blame when something we knew would happen happens? It’s like blaming Fellaini for being a limited flag pole, we knew this when we signed him.

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 12:59PM

GSPfan wrote: »

Not going to answer that as it goes down a stupid route of naming players who dance and who don’t. Next we’ll be referencing Giggs and Sharpe doing their dance.
If you don’t agree then continue to let it annoy you.

No no I agree with you ,
I just think Lingard comes across very immature for a 26 year old, but again as pointed ut when iv seem him play he does well ,

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 01:04PM

The Jose effect, he can get fans turning on each other and the players rather than looking at him.

Lads, I can't believe I have to say this but Instagram posts and dances are not the problem. They are not even close to being the problem.

Julez · 17-12-2018 01:04PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No no I agree with you ,
I just think Lingard comes across very immature for a 26 year old, but again as pointed ut when iv seem him play he does well ,

You're talking rubbish really. What matters is what he does on the pitch, he's one of the few that actually seem to care about the club. He's not the best player ever, but he's a good squad option.

As for off field, he does a lot of good outside of the club with fans and charities and so on. The modern game is changing, as are people, get over it. I'm sure no one in Liverpool dances though.

gimli2112 · 17-12-2018 01:11PM

Caught a soundbyte from Keane in the studio the other day. They were talking about Pogba and his off field antics Instagram etc and someone made the point players need to have a life outside of football. Keane was flabbergasted. He was saying they shouldn't have a life outside of football they are very well paid and football should be the most important thing in their lives.
That's the difference.

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 01:15PM

Julez wrote: »

You're talking rubbish really. What matters is what he does on the pitch, he's one of the few that actually seem to care about the club. He's not the best player ever, but he's a good squad option.

As for off field, he does a lot of good outside of the club with fans and charities and so on. The modern game is changing, as are people, get over it. I'm sure no one in Liverpool dances though.

Your mistaking if you think all that matters is what you see on the pitch , What happens around the football club during the week can be more important,

It certainly doesn't help to be putting up videos of dancing and patter cake daily when your club have had the worst start to a Prem season never ,
Its not like hes doing it in his off time as its always at the training ground

He also got some abuse this week for launching his clothing line 2 days before a big game,
As the ex united pros said you can't be 100% focused n the game if your doing that,

Its something ud have never seen with Fergie in charge, if that is because times are changing , im not so sure ,

17-12-2018 01:17PM

gimli2112 wrote: »

Caught a soundbyte from Keane in the studio the other day. They were talking about Pogba and his off field antics Instagram etc and someone made the point players need to have a life outside of football. Keane was flabbergasted. He was saying they shouldn't have a life outside of football they are very well paid and football should be the most important thing in their lives.
That's the difference.

Different strokes for different folks but the difference is that the players who would be getting distracted more should by rights be getting paid less because they don't achieve their potential but it seems at United you can skate along and put out an IG video or 2 and it counts for more than on field play come contract time.

How Soon Is Now · 17-12-2018 01:21PM

Times are changing that's true. Doesn't mean its a good thing! Far from it.

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 01:24PM

gimli2112 wrote: »

Caught a soundbyte from Keane in the studio the other day. They were talking about Pogba and his off field antics Instagram etc and someone made the point players need to have a life outside of football. Keane was flabbergasted. He was saying they shouldn't have a life outside of football they are very well paid and football should be the most important thing in their lives.
That's the difference.

People may dislike him but there is no coincidence that United where so successful with him as captain and in the team .

I see Neville and Scholes saying he was by far the best captain they ever played with as he just refused to let standards slip ,
They said you knew what was expected and off the pitch and Roy would enforce it before it even made it to the mangers attention

I do wonder are there any current captains in Europe like that or is it an old school way

I recall Carragher having a go at Henderson once for wearing a hat backwards in a Instagram picture, Saying your captain of Liverpool not a teenager,

It may seem like nothing but its proper player's with proper standards ,

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 01:24PM

gimli2112 wrote: »

Caught a soundbyte from Keane in the studio the other day. They were talking about Pogba and his off field antics Instagram etc and someone made the point players need to have a life outside of football. Keane was flabbergasted. He was saying they shouldn't have a life outside of football they are very well paid and football should be the most important thing in their lives.
That's the difference.

Thats just Keane's personal opinion. Its what was best for him and his own game but its not a blueprint on how to be a footballer.

Beckham was very active in celebrity circles in his UTD days. Fashion shows, premiers, events etc. He married a spice girl ffs. Giggs and Sharpe were know as the spice boys iirc or something. These guys were some of our best players. Instagram posts can be done directly from your phone, at least the lads aren't falling out of nightclubs.

Drumpot · 17-12-2018 01:25PM

gimli2112 wrote: »

Caught a soundbyte from Keane in the studio the other day. They were talking about Pogba and his off field antics Instagram etc and someone made the point players need to have a life outside of football. Keane was flabbergasted. He was saying they shouldn't have a life outside of football they are very well paid and football should be the most important thing in their lives.
That's the difference.

You can’t have it every way as a footballer. You are paid massive sums of money to do a job that you love. It’s not comparable with most peoples lives and affords you a life people can only dream of.

The counter sacrifice should be that between your peak footballing years you should only focus on your football. When Pogba is 30 he can choose to never work again for the rest of his life. His peak years are 22-30 , so 8 years of focusing purely on his football is not that bad.

This whole “players need downtime” argument is getting confused with players external business ventures. Players making money out of things outside of football is not a hobby no more then getting paid to play football is a hobby. It’s double jibbing it. I would prefer players to have hobbies that helps them rest or improve their foogball. I don’t think it’s much to ask for the money they get and the short careers they have.

These non football related nixers are fine if it doesn’t affect the players football job or performance. But Pogba admitted it does affect him and he explained why he gave it up for France during the World Cup. There’s no other logical conclusion that it’s effecting him and/or team mates. He even said he gave that stuff off so it wouldn’t bring that negative attention to him. This in itself is an admittance by Pogba that his Instagram stuff does have an effect on him in a negative way.

Zlatan and Ronaldo are the perfect examples of players who could mix the two. Both desperate to be the best player they can be and show it to the world. Pogbas only good at whinging about not being happy and have some people her come up with all sorts of excuses as to why Fellaini has proven to be better value per performance then Pogba.

Pogba is the clubs record signing and while it’s not his fault he cost so much, he’s been a wasted 100 million while he’s been “unhappy”. That would of prob got us Alderweireld and perisic in the summer.

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 01:26PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Thats just Keane's personal opinion. Its what was best for him and his own game but its not a blueprint on how to be a footballer.

Beckham was very active in celebrity circles in his UTD days. Fashion shows, premiers, events etc. He married a spice girl ffs. Giggs and Sharpe were know as the spice boys iirc or something. These guys were some of our best players. Instagram posts can be done directly from your phone, at least the lads aren't falling out of nightclubs.

Fergie got shot of Beckham at 28 for that very reason

Econ__ · 17-12-2018 01:33PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The Jose effect, he can get fans turning on each other and the players rather than looking at him.

Lads, I can't believe I have to say this but Instagram posts and dances are not the problem. They are not even close to being the problem.

Divide and rule, or to be more precise in this case - divide and distract form his personal responsibility. Classic Mourinho.

He's a master manipulator. I think many of the fans who are still focusing the bulk of their criticism towards factors other than Mourinho are like domestic abuse victims who often make excuses for their abuser - 'It can't be all his fault, he's under pressure at work etc.'

Drumpot · 17-12-2018 01:33PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Thats just Keane's personal opinion. Its what was best for him and his own game but its not a blueprint on how to be a footballer.

Beckham was very active in celebrity circles in his UTD days. Fashion shows, premiers, events etc. He married a spice girl ffs. Giggs and Sharpe were know as the spice boys iirc or something. These guys were some of our best players. Instagram posts can be done directly from your phone, at least the lads aren't falling out of nightclubs.

Becks was sold because of it. It wound SAF up no end , all the media attention he courted and his wife dragging him to book signings in London during downtime. Difference with becks was you still got a performance on the pitch but it cost him his career at United.

From a footballing perspective it generally doesn’t help a footballer from a talent perspective. It can be a negative for footballers and when they are in a job that’s scrutinized and so unique it can be a negative for the footballer. Pogba is the perfect example. You can say it shouldn’t be a problem but the fact is that it is a problem. Seeing players having fun or selling sh*t when the team they play for is underperforming is not good. Football is a passionate sport so in the same way we can forgive a team giving it their all and losing, it feels like players genuinely don’t care much about the team when they are flaunting their own crap to make more money.

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 01:34PM

Weepsie wrote: »

Beckham was also a consummate professional who trained incredibly hard and always gave 100%.

Giggs too.

Sharpe was given several chances to shape up but didnt and was booted out. He has since talked about how stupid he was.

Spice boys was used for Redknapp, Fowler, McMannaman etc I thought? Sharpe was out of the club before that nickname was a thing

This is my point, you can do both. Having a very active life outside of UTD doesn't stop you from becoming a top player for your club. Ronaldo is another example. Documentaries, clothing ranges etc

Drumpot · 17-12-2018 01:37PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

This is my point, you can do both. Having a very active life outside of UTD doesn't stop you from becoming a top player for your club. Ronaldo is another example. Documentaries, clothing ranges etc

You can do both of course but what happens when you admit it’s affecting you?

Ronaldo performs for any club and any manager (he worked with Jose). Pogba doesn’t. Ronaldo didn’t need to stop doing his marketing stuff for world cups because it wasn’t affecting him. Pogba stopped during the World Cup because he said it was a negative distraction. Ask Pogba why he stopped it if it’s not affecting him or his team mates.

DM_7 · 17-12-2018 01:39PM

Zeek12 wrote: »

I think I'd rather face someone like PSG.

Better to go out against a big gun......than to get outplayed and eliminated by a so-so team like Sevilla

Two games v PSG could get very bad.

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 01:40PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Becks was sold because of it. It wound SAF up no end , all the media attention he courted and his wife dragging him to book signings in London during downtime. Difference with becks was you still got a performance on the pitch but it cost him his career at United.

From a footballing perspective it generally doesn’t help a footballer from a talent perspective. It can be a negative for footballers and when they are in a job that’s scrutinized and so unique it can be a negative for the footballer. Pogba is the perfect example. You can say it shouldn’t be a problem but the fact is that it is a problem. Seeing players having fun or selling sh*t when the team they play for is underperforming is not good. Football is a passionate sport so in the same way we can forgive a team giving it their all and losing, it feels like players genuinely don’t care much about the team when they are flaunting their own crap to make more money.

I think you unknowingly hit on something important here that highlights a real problem. SAF would axe the likes of Beckham and Keane even when they were some of our best players and the team was preforming well.

Jose continues to start Matic, Young and Val and seems unable to motivate any of our players into form. I cant think of any outfield player who is consistently preforming for us. It looks there is huge tension and players playing a system that is not to their strengths.

It takes a hell of a bullish ego to have all your players slide in from but we've seen exactly this happen under Jose before.

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 01:44PM

Drumpot wrote: »

You can do both of course but what happens when you admit it’s affecting you?

Ronaldo performs for any club and any manager (he worked with Jose). Pogba doesn’t. Ronaldo didn’t need to stop doing his marketing stuff for world cups because it wasn’t affecting him. Pogba stopped during the World Cup because he said it was a negative distraction. Ask Pogba why he stopped it if it’s not affecting him or his team mates.

You can't possible compare Ronaldo and Pogba,
Look at there Instagram's Pogba videos are dancing and patter cake at the training ground ,Ronaldo are in the gym at home after training ,

Ronaldo since he was a kid at United was know for staying back training and being Ultra serious about all parts of his preparation ,

Wasn't it Evra who said Ronaldo invited around his house after training , Evra thought it was to relax have fun but Ronaldo wanted to practise free kicks int he garden, do laps of the swimming pool and see could he beat his pb's in his home gym . You should youtube the interview its very funny ,

TheDoc · 17-12-2018 01:46PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The Jose effect, he can get fans turning on each other and the players rather than looking at him.

Lads, I can't believe I have to say this but Instagram posts and dances are not the problem. They are not even close to being the problem.

It is indeed the Jose effect, but plenty of fans see through it constantly.

Apparently the manager isn't aware the majority of the fans arn't just taking his word as gospel.

Drumpot · 17-12-2018 01:49PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I think you unknowingly hit on something important here that highlights a real problem. SAF would axe the likes of Beckham and Keane even when they were some of our best players and the team was preforming well.

Jose continues to start Matic, Young and Val and seems unable to motivate any of our players into form. I cant think of any outfield player who is consistently preforming for us. It looks there is huge tension and players playing a system that is not to their strengths.

It takes a hell of a bullish ego to have all your players slide in from but we've seen exactly this happen under Jose before.

I think the problem with Jose is that it’s a divided dressingroom (that he’s right in the middle of causing) and he’s picking players “on his side”. In all fairness , ego and Jose go hand in hand but I do think that Pogba has a fair old ego himself and they’ve clashed with neither willing to back down. Looked like Jose was trying to somehow makeup (at least publicly) by making him vice captain but that didn’t work. It’s ironic because ego can be beautiful (Cantona - Zlatan) and even initially the English loved Jose’s over blown arrogance knocking SAF off his perch but it’s now become a thing people use against him (like the way Pogbas marketing stuff can work against him).

I think most of us have moved on from Jose because it’s only just a matter of when in terms of when he will be sacked.

Drumpot · 17-12-2018 01:50PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

You can't possible compare Ronaldo and Pogba,
Look at there Instagram's Pogba videos are dancing and patter cake at the training ground ,Ronaldo are in the gym at home after training ,

Ronaldo since he was a kid at United was know for staying back training and being Ultra serious about all parts of his preparation ,

Wasn't it Evra who said Ronaldo invited around his house after training , Evra thought it was to relax have fun but Ronaldo wanted to practise free kicks int he garden, do laps of the swimming pool and see could he beat his pb's in his home gym . You should youtube the interview its very funny ,

I don’t watch Pogbas or Ronaldo’s marketing stuff so I wasn’t being specific. I was commenting on how you can market yourself once it doesn’t effect your football. When you are playing poorly people will use that against you which won’t help.

TheDoc · 17-12-2018 01:55PM

It's a bit of a side note, but really, where are McKenna and Carrick in all of this.

I'm going to assume that Jose treats them like "you should be grateful you get to work with me" but I'd such hopes with McKenna coming in with what he had done previous with his work. Hopefully two bright young coaches arn't being absolutely tarnished or downtrodden in this mess.

Hococop · 17-12-2018 01:58PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I think you unknowingly hit on something important here that highlights a real problem. SAF would axe the likes of Beckham and Keane even when they were some of our best players and the team was preforming well.

Jose continues to start Matic, Young and Val and seems unable to motivate any of our players into form. I cant think of any outfield player who is consistently preforming for us. It looks there is huge tension and players playing a system that is not to their strengths.

It takes a hell of a bullish ego to have all your players slide in from but we've seen exactly this happen under Jose before.

First bit reminds me alot of what NFL journalists say about the Patriots, the head coach would get rid of a player a year earlier while still good rather than a year or two late, while it's not 100% similar ( Patriots usually did it to avoid giving a big contract) it feels like it was something Fergie always did

Your Airbag · 17-12-2018 02:00PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think the problem with Jose is that it’s a divided dressingroom (that he’s right in the middle of causing) and he’s picking players “on his side”. In all fairness , ego and Jose go hand in hand but I do think that Pogba has a fair old ego himself and they’ve clashed with neither willing to back down. Looked like Jose was trying to somehow makeup (at least publicly) by making him vice captain but that didn’t work. It’s ironic because ego can be beautiful (Cantona - Zlatan) and even initially the English loved Jose’s over blown arrogance knocking SAF off his perch but it’s now become a thing people use against him (like the way Pogbas marketing stuff can work against him).

I think most of us have moved on from Jose because it’s only just a matter of when in terms of when he will be sacked.

Fair enough Pogba has an ego but I don't know why you keep beating that drum. Pogba has been cut and nothing has improved. Its still the same regressive football Jose is setting the team up to play.

This Pogba stuff is honestly some fans falling for Jose's deflection. There are many other players in the squad who look shocking too. Has Jose fallen out with everyone? People like SAF perch comments because it was directed at a rival. Jose talked about success after the Sevilla defeat and how no other managers have one as many EPL titles as him at others times. It smacks of arrogance. Its a totally different type of ego.

Pogba's been dropped and we still look clueless. Pogba is not the problem and it doesn't explain how bad everyone looks on the pitch any given week. As a variable he's been removed from the equation imo.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

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