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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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Comments

  • #9272
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,845 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    ERG emboldened. Her miscalculation was the Election. She should swivel to Lb and SNP votes, do a soft Brexit and feck the ERG.


  • #9273
    gimli2112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,427 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112


    JRM came up with some math that if you discount the MPs on her payroll she lost and it's a terrible result for her.


  • #9274
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,280 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    devnull wrote: »
    63% backing her is a clear mandate if you consider that the ERG consider 52% is a clear mandate for Brexit.

    Mogg was full of rationalisation just there on the BBC. Some majorities are more legitimate than others it seems.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #9275
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,050 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    The Moggster in full spin cycle mode just now on bbc.


  • #9276
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    The numbers against are way up on what was expected.

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1072959644925132809

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1072961055419236361


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  • #9277
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,630 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    gimli2112 wrote: »
    JRM came up with some math that if you discount the MPs on her payroll she lost and it's a terrible result for her.

    His crew love spinning math. :rolleyes: He's had his shot and lost, that's the bottom line. Though he'll be well suited with this result as he can stand on the sidelines and roar and shout irrelevancies about how she should go to the Queen, his favourite.


  • #9278
    Folkstonian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Folkstonian


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Well, now what we've got past that Tory naval gazing she still has to get this deal through parliament which looks extremely unlikely.

    Just the small matter of a deficit of 117 of her own party, plus 10 DUP votes, to claw back from elsewhere in the house.

    Piece of cake for Theresa, right?


  • #9279
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    gimli2112 wrote: »
    JRM came up with some math that if you discount the MPs on her payroll she lost and it's a terrible result for her.

    Yet spent the whole of the last year saying that you cannot exclude votes from the Brexit vote because everybodies vote counts and that would be against democracy.

    It's laughable, typical little rich boy, changes the rules when he loses because he is so used to getting his own way yet doesn't like it when people do the same.

    He's the very worst of selfish, arrogant politicians.


  • #9280
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Well, now what we've got past that Tory naval gazing she still has to get this deal through parliament which looks extremely unlikely.
    She claimed she has a legal solution for the backstop.

    This should be fun, because she doesn't. And now she's going to prove it, turn the Tories into an even bigger laughing stock and there's nothing they can do about it.


  • #9281
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,845 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    What does she do coming up to 21st Jan? Corbyn is right to wait, he wouldn't win it.
    HoC will force a Ext of Art50 and 2nd Ref.


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  • #9282
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    gimli2112 wrote: »
    JRM came up with some math that if you discount the MPs on her payroll she lost and it's a terrible result for her.

    Nasty little insinuation about fellow Tories. Par for the course for Jacob.


  • #9283
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    That effectively kills off the Withdrawal Agreement, presumably.


  • #9284
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Seems that opinion is split on whether there is good news for her or not. Labour supporters are calling it as a blow while her supporters are ecstatic with the result.

    It really doesn't matter as her deal is still not getting through parliament so she may have a majority of support in her party but if she cannot get it through the HoC then it really doesn't matter.


  • #9285
    thecretinhop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭thecretinhop


    corbyn will have the uk as a third world state if he gets in.


  • #9286
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    thecretinhop wrote: »
    corbyn will have the uk as a third world state if he gets in.

    Yes, that's his cunning plan.


  • #9287
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    devnull wrote: »
    63% backing her is a clear mandate if you consider that the ERG consider 52% is a clear mandate for Brexit.

    Now the Tories have to wait 12 months for another heave.
    Though according to Brexiteers you cannot ever have another vote on the same subject ever again, because that would be undemocratic.
    Unless of course it is something completely, entirely different if it is about something they want.


  • #9288
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,462 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    Just the small matter of a deficit of 117 of her own party, plus 10 DUP votes, to claw back from elsewhere in the house.

    Piece of cake for Theresa, right?

    Tony Connelly saying 117 is bad news for the deal : he says those same MPs will turn all their attention to voting it down now.


  • #9289
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,100 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It's really hard to see how we avoid a vote of some description from this point, either an election or a people's vote.


  • #9290
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,412 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    thecretinhop wrote: »
    corbyn will have the uk as a third world state if he gets in.

    As would 117 Tories it seems.


    Follow the money. There's chaos investments made there...


  • #9291
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    thecretinhop wrote: »
    corbyn will have the uk as a third world state if he gets in.

    He'd wanna crack on so, cos the Tories are beating him to it


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  • #9292
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    All of Scotland hates the tories - except of course those who voted in 13 Conservative MPs at the last general election.
    Which is 12 more than the previous election.

    And probably 12 more than the next unless they can deliver on fishing rights and other Brexit related stuff. And we aren't even talking Hard Brexit.

    I’d expect any other PM to resign. Theresa has a different outlook though, so all bets are off.
    The lady's not for turning.


  • #9293
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    Just the small matter of a deficit of 117 of her own party, plus 10 DUP votes, to claw back from elsewhere in the house.
    That's not how party politics work. You toe the party line or you leave. She only needs to find someone to replace the DUP.
    As much as the SNP hate them, Sturgeon might be the one to turn to, in exchange for assurances about Scottish interests.


  • #9294
    UsedToWait
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭UsedToWait


    awec wrote: »
    It's really hard to see how we avoid a vote of some description from this point, either an election or a people's vote.

    I think it's really hard to see anything but a complete breakdown / eventual reorganisation of the UK polity at this stage.


  • #9295
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,080 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Interesting point made on Sky that in the leadership campaign which she won two years ago, she only got 199 votes in the second ballot. She got one more.

    Of course, she was going against 2 people.


  • #9296
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    Just the small matter of a deficit of 117 of her own party, plus 10 DUP votes, to claw back from elsewhere in the house.

    Piece of cake for Theresa, right?


    Not just the 117, you would have people who voted for her and who will still vote against the deal as they don't want a Brexiter coming in but cannot support the deal.

    Let's just remember,

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1072962227127418909

    James O'Brien, "Even tonight, nothing substantive has changed since the ‘red lines’ met the Good Friday Agreement, and the weaponisation of free movement met the indivisibilty of the four freedoms. Literally nothing.
    As you were."

    Also if there was a no confidence motion in the house, how will those 117 that voted against her be able to argue that she is not good enough for the Conservative Party but she is good enough to be PM?


  • #9297
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭ [Deleted User]


    devnull wrote: »
    63% backing her is a clear mandate if you consider that the ERG consider 52% is a clear mandate for Brexit.

    Its a clear mandate within the Tory party only. As to the overall situation, nothing has really moved on. Unintentionally we now know more than we did a few minutes ago as to how many Tories would have voted against TM’s deal had it gone before the HoC, ie, it would have been crushed when combined with the opposition of Labour, the SNP, DUP etc. With the EU declaring that the WA can’t be changed, I’m not sure what the British government can do now to satisfy their own domestic audience.


  • #9298
    Royale with Cheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    The presenter on BBC to Rees Mogg just before he signed off - You must have a busy night of plotting ahead of you :D


  • #9299
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,534 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    i don't particularly like may or what she stands for but i'm glad she has survived the vote. the deal she got was the best that was going to be got, and while it pleases no-body, perhapse it might ultimately cause the downfall of brexit (maybe that is her plan but perhapse i'm giving her a bit to much credit)
    my view is that she is the only one who can lead the conservatives that is being realistic about what kind of brexit can actually be delivered. i dread to think what would have happened had she not survived, mog or johnson as her replacement would have been horrific as they have delusians of grandure in my view and i fear any new "deal" they would have got would be a lot worse.
    ultimately the only really good deal is remain.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #9300
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Can't believe Richard Drax on Sky News now.

    He's stating that there was a clear mandate for leave and that people didn't want to be half in and half out and wanted to be out and the people clearly thought this but there shouldn't be a second vote because the people have spoken.

    He then goes on without taking much of a brath saying that despite the fact May has won the vote she doesn't have a big enough mandate and too many people voted against confidence in her so with such a small majority she should not continue and she should resign.

    What a bunch of hypocrites - notice how they change their definition of mandate and what a small majority is depending on what vote they are talking about, so many contradictions and different rules for different things, they are really a disgrace.


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  • #9301
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,657 ✭✭✭Infini


    awec wrote: »
    It's really hard to see how we avoid a vote of some description from this point, either an election or a people's vote.

    2nf referendum would be a possibility expecially if combined with an A50 withdrawal. 2nd ref would also have to be between the WA and Remain. No Deal will have to be removed as a factor. A referendum isnt gonna solve anything UNLESS of course Labour
    decides to campaign on the remain platform and with Corbyn right now thats not a certainty unlrss he can be armtwisted into it in return for the PMs job.


This discussion has been closed.
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