Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Dyr · 11-12-2018 07:46PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

People from no other European country would use the term 'Europe' in that sense of it being a place, that is abroad.

No other people, except us of course

We're both island nations, the reality of geography tends to manifest itself in our psyche and language.

Mr.Nice Guy · 11-12-2018 07:52PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Even as a Remainer, and even today, Mays language betrays the inherent disconnect between the UK and the rest of Europe :

"Asked whether she had been told that the 48 letters to trigger a no confidence motion in her as Conservative leader had been received, May said: “No, I have been here in Europe dealing with the issue I have promised parliament I would be dealing with.”"

People from no other European country would use the term 'Europe' in that sense of it being a place, that is abroad.

Reminds me of the comment that the journalist Peter Foster has pinned on his Twitter page:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/921314300723154945

devnull · 11-12-2018 08:21PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

do you really think she is "in power"
she may be PM, but she is effectively as much in power as Neil Kinnock was after he went frolicking on that beach in Brighton.
only difference is Kinnock didn't look as silly.

The big difference you seem to ignore is that Kinnock was never Prime Minister.

Hurrache · 11-12-2018 08:26PM

Remember the time Andrew Maxwell appeared on the BBC as the token funny man on an otherwise serious panel to discuss Brexit, and some said it would have been much better had it been Dara O'Briain? Well look which 2 people just got invited onto Newsnight together for a cosy chat with Pritil Patel. I doubt it will ever happen though.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1072556174778744836?s=19
https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1072540565479272450?s=19

Tell me how · 11-12-2018 08:29PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Remember the time Andrew Maxwell appeared on the BBC as the token funny man on an otherwise serious panel to discuss Brexit, and some said it would have been much better had it been Daire O'Briain? Well look which 2 people just got invited onto Newsnight together for a cosy chat with Pritil Patel. I doubt it will ever happen though.

One of the responses to that tweet.

https://twitter.com/DanielSneeUK/status/1072558825536925702

No matter what the next few days/weeks/month bring, this is a long long way from being over.
There are many who will in future blame things as basic as the milk going sour or having a flat tyre on Brexit happening/not happening.

devnull · 11-12-2018 08:38PM

All the Brexiteers that I know are saying the same thing, saying that nobody is going to build the hard border so why is it such a big issue and if the EU need one due to market rules, then it's not their problem and that's for the EU to deal with and pay for as it's an EU border and not a UK border.

That's what you're dealing with.

Inquitus · 11-12-2018 08:40PM

devnull wrote: »

That's what you're dealing with.

Rabidly partisan idiots, nothing you or I can say or do will ever change their mind. When the UK crashes and burns they'll be telling everyone the whole failed Brexit project just needs more time.

devnull · 11-12-2018 08:41PM

Inquitus wrote: »

Rabidly partisan idiots, nothing you or I can say or do will ever change their mind. When the UK crashes and burns they'll be telling everyone the whole failed Brexit project just needs more time.

They'll confuse what the consequences of leaving are and call them punishment no doubt.

christy c · 11-12-2018 08:42PM

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

LeinsterDub · 11-12-2018 08:49PM

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Like painting the Golden Gate Bridge. When you get to the end of the painting it's time to start again. When you've erected the cameras you'll be going back to repair the cameras and so it will begin.

theguzman · 11-12-2018 08:49PM

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Enourmous, what would probably happen is block the lesser roads and channel traffic via the main arteries.

ilovesmybrick · 11-12-2018 08:51PM

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Simple answer? A sh*tshow. The border is massively porous (helped by integration funds that were a balm to decades long wounds), it has more crossings than the eastern borders of the EU, and it would create absolute havoc. Neither the UK nor Ireland have had any need for the customs, policing, or infrastructural requirements for twenty years, so the training and hiring alone would be a monumental task. And that's just the practicalities. The social and political ramifications are monumental.

Infini · 11-12-2018 08:54PM

Inquitus wrote: »

Rabidly partisan idiots, nothing you or I can say or do will ever change their mind. When the UK crashes and burns they'll be telling everyone the whole failed Brexit project just needs more time.

The thing with those kinds of people is you cannot reason with them you must hammer the message into them that they are wrong plain and simple and cut off their moronic warbling by constantly hitting them with fact and that if they cannot accept this there is consequences. Consequences arent punishment theyre what happens when you refuse to analyse and be pragmatic and are a result of their arrogance.

Infini · 11-12-2018 08:59PM

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Simple answer? A sh*tshow. The border is massively porous (helped by integration funds that were a balm to decades long wounds), it has more crossings than the eastern borders of the EU, and it would create absolute havoc. Neither the UK nor Ireland have had any need for the customs, policing, or infrastructural requirements for twenty years, so the training and hiring alone would be a monumental task. And that's just the practicalities. The social and political ramifications are monumental.

I would say that it would simply an unworkable mess and that a UI will become a near certainty over this likely a border poll would come about out of sheer necessity. The diehard unionist would probably be a waste of time to deal with theyd be as bad as the brexiteers in their refusal to accept reality they helped create so likely the main focus will be on convincing the regular people of both the advantages both representively and economically while hammering the failed politics and policies of westminster and the dup in causing this.

DOCARCH · 11-12-2018 09:00PM

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

....it has more crossings than the eastern borders of the EU....

And more than between USA and Canada.

As above, a lot of crossings would end up being closed (again) and other crossings would have to be monitored (physically or remotely/electronically).

One thing that has puzzled me for a long time about the Brexiteers, and their insistence that 'they' would not put in place a hard border, is immigration? What's to stop EU citizens (....the ones the Brexiteers don't seem to want....) travelling into Ireland (freely, as EU citizens), then travelling across the non-hard border and straight into the UK?

robinph · 11-12-2018 09:02PM

I wish they would stop letting brexiteers away with saying things like "France or Germany wouldn't accept the backstop so why should the UK have to". Ian Duncan Smith was the one repeating that line today on the news.

France or Germany are not in a situation where one region of their country is tied through non EU treaties to another country which isn't leaving. They know this and we know it, but the media keep repeating the lies for them as if it is a valid statement and so confusing the UK population who are not aware of it.

Article 50 needs a UK/ Ireland specific clause to say that one can only leave with the other as they are tied together through other history and until they separate themselves from each other fully (NI getting spun off) they will be considered one entity for article 50.

ilovesmybrick · 11-12-2018 09:04PM

DOCARCH wrote: »

And more than between USA and Canada.

As above, a lot of crossings would end up being closed (again) and other crossings would have to be monitored (physically or remotely/electronically).

One thing that has puzzled me for a long time about the Brexiteers, and their insistence that 'they' would not put in place a hard border, is immigration? What's to stop EU citizens (....the ones the Brexiteers don't seem to want....) travelling into Ireland (freely, as EU citizens), then travelling across the non-hard border and straight into the UK?

Simple question is how many of them ever saw the border in the 90's? I did. Who would ever do anything to bring that back.

Kermit.de.frog · 11-12-2018 09:08PM

I think Varadkar should refrain from suggesting what the UK should do re: Article 50.

It does no good and only leads to resentment and anger across the water.

We wouldn't like foreign prime ministers speaking in public about what our policy positions should be.

4068ac1elhodqr · 11-12-2018 09:10PM

christy c wrote: »

Genuine question, what would the logistics of erecting a border be if the need arose?

Agree with others, messy, very messy.

The old concept of Bandit country wouldn't just relate to a few sqkm where folks get red diesel, it would be large swathes across several counties.

The entire mass of new cameras would have their CCD sensors wiped out by a couple of lads in a '92 twincam, before the batteries in their green laser pointer even started to run dry. Ebay would have an oversupply of optic components.

Drones would drop weekly butter and lotto tickets across, then the new EU army themselves would show up speaking asking who left all ze concrete pillars in the middle of ze road. Irish would be dropped in schools, in favour of German to decipher what's going on.

With Scotland leaving, all they would have to do is lace Had's wall with barbed wire, half of the 95miles there is National Park land, just the M6 and few A-roads on the other East side.

listermint · 11-12-2018 09:11PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think Varadkar should refrain from suggesting what the UK should do re: Article 50.

It does no good and only leads to resentment and anger across the water.

We wouldn't like foreign prime ministers speaking in public about what our policy positions should be.

He can say what he likes

We have reached the Nexus.

Akrasia · 11-12-2018 09:12PM

DOCARCH wrote: »

And more than between USA and Canada.

As above, a lot of crossings would end up being closed (again) and other crossings would have to be monitored (physically or remotely/electronically).

One thing that has puzzled me for a long time about the Brexiteers, and their insistence that 'they' would not put in place a hard border, is immigration? What's to stop EU citizens (....the ones the Brexiteers don't seem to want....) travelling into Ireland (freely, as EU citizens), then travelling across the non-hard border and straight into the UK?

Its nuts. They want brexit so they can 'take control of their borders' and their solution to the backstop is to have a completely un patrolled border with the EU

DOCARCH · 11-12-2018 09:16PM

Akrasia wrote: »

They want brexit so they can 'take control of their borders' and their solution to the backstop is to have a completely un patrolled border with the EU

Exactly....

prawnsambo · 11-12-2018 09:23PM

Akrasia wrote: »

Its nuts. They want brexit so they can 'take control of their borders' and their solution to the backstop is to have a completely un patrolled border with the EU

Well they'd have had that anyway with the CTA.

Kermit.de.frog · 11-12-2018 09:25PM

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1072550065380708357

Just a note of caution here - remember what Bertie said - 'don't let it come down to a final summit'., the risk being Ireland might be leaned by other EU countries.

Inquitus · 11-12-2018 09:29PM

3/1 May doesn't last the next 20 days as PM
6/5 There is a 2nd referendum
33/1 May's deal to pass a vote in the Commons
5/1 Johnson next Prime Minister*

* the list for this one is particularly shocking in its content.

listermint · 11-12-2018 09:30PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1072550065380708357

Just a note of caution here - remember what Bertie said - 'don't let it come down to a final summit'., the risk being Ireland might be leaned by other EU countries.

Ireland won't be leaned on.

That has been reiterated several times today.

Why people persist in this nonsense is beyond me

Folkstonian · 11-12-2018 09:31PM

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

Agree with others, messy, very messy.

The old concept of Bandit country wouldn't just relate to a few sqkm where folks get red diesel, it would be large swathes across several counties.

The entire mass of new cameras would have their CCD sensors wiped out by a couple of lads in a '92 twincam, before the batteries in their green laser pointer even started to run dry. Ebay would have an oversupply of optic components.

Drones would drop weekly butter and lotto tickets across, then the new EU army themselves would show up speaking asking who left all ze concrete pillars in the middle of ze road. Irish would be dropped in schools, in favour of German to decipher what's going on.

With Scotland leaving, all they would have to do is lace Had's wall with barbed wire, half of the 95miles there is National Park land, just the M6 and few A-roads on the other East side.

Whilst it would mean ceding big chunks of Northumberland and Cumbria (as well as lots of geordies) to the independent republic of sturgeonia, it’s an otherwise flawless plan!

4068ac1elhodqr · 11-12-2018 09:35PM

Inquitus wrote: »

* the list for this one is particularly shocking in its content.

Their next PM market sure is wide open, JC 4/1 the most likely during 2019. But could be anyone of three dozen with a decent chance.

In the US you know what your getting, more Donald (at evens), unless Beto o'Rourke is favoured by the Dem, over the usual old hat.

4068ac1elhodqr · 11-12-2018 09:42PM

Folkstonian wrote: »

Whilst it would mean ceding big chunks of Northumberland and Cumbria (as well as lots of geordies) to the independent republic of sturgeonia, it’s an otherwise flawless plan!

If they ship up 4yrs worth of the glorious buckfast brew for free, before topping up the wall, peace shall forever prevail.

Geordonia has a ring to it also, perhaps the most isolated urban area of 2.6m they have. While Newcastle voted to remain, the surrounds did not.

Water John · 11-12-2018 09:46PM

People might need to learn the history of Strasbourg and how it has moved back and forth between France and Germany. It's the reason the French insist of the EU Parliament debunk there for a week each month.
Border issues have resonance in many EU countries.

BTW Brady 1922 Committee has asked to meet TM tomorrow??? 48.

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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