Does multiculturalism ruin Santa?

realitykeeper wrote: »

As for the power of magic and possibility, that is something kids can keep into adulthood and for their whole lives in the simple story of the nativity.

So their pre-packaged fairy tale is not as good as your pre-packaged fairy tale is pretty much the message this post appears to be giving off

I myself find that neither religion or Santa is required. Children's imagination, love of fantasy, awe, wonder, love of the "power of possibility", curiosity, engagement and much more is something kids can keep into adulthood and for their whole lives in the simply stories of reality. No fairy tales or lies required at all.

Still although I do not do the Santa thing with my children (4+8 year olds) they are also primed not to go ruining for any other kids. In fact we make quite a fun game out of doing the opposite and actually do things to make other kids buy into it more.

realitykeeper wrote: »

To the faithful, Atheism is a belief in the fictitious.

Who mentioned atheism though? I certainly didn't. But the "To the faithful" part was my point exactly. The purveyor of one fairy tale talking about the risks and down sides of someone else's.

realitykeeper wrote: »

... but no magic?

Depends what you mean. They do not believe in literal magic like Santa making reindeer fly or Elsa waving her hand and things turn to Ice. But "magic" does not have to be confined to that.

For my children for example when I cut a window in a chicken egg and reseal it with transparent sealant and then every day 5 times a day we come back and use tools to magnify and literally watch a baby chicken grow from fertilisation to a walking chick - that is "magic" and awe inspiring and exciting. With all the eye wide wonder that people describe above when their kids find presents waiting under a tree from a magical intruder.

I also train and learn at illusion "magic" and coin magic and close up magic and various aspects of mentalism and hypnotism. I can make things appear and disappear. I can do cold reading. I have walked on water pretty much looking like the Christian Cult Personality. I can drive a car blind folded. I can walk into a shop and 4 times out of 5 say to someone "Watch this I am going to give the cashier 10 euro and make him give me change of a 50" and they do.

And this is wide eyed "magic" to my kids too. And they love it. And then they love finding out how I did it and how it works.

So my kids lives are full of magic thanks. Just not the kind based on lies.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Flying reindeer are nothing. To the faithful, anything is possible in the next life.

Yea when you start beleiving one thing without evidence - then beleiving any other nonsense without evidence is certainly possible. I wholly agree.

realitykeeper wrote: »

... and yet it does effect children's trust in their parents. It may be in a very small way, it may be in a subconscious way but it is there. For some people, skepticism is the legacy of Santa and the other guardians (tooth fairy, easter bunny, even jack frost).

Many people have tried to offer me arguments over the years for why I should do the Santa thing with my children. Usually using words like "Magic" and "innocence" and phrases like "Let children be children". But nonsense every time.

The only argument that _has_ given me pause was from a user of this forum who suggested Santa Make Believe and subsequent outing of the conspiracy and lies could potentially be an inoculation against other bad ideas - like the evidence devoid theist nonsense you pedal.

Mainly because many of the arguments used to convince kids there is a Santa - are the same ones used to convince people there is a god. And many of the narratives used _on_ people who think there is a Santa - are the ones used on people who think there is a god. Such as mediating their morality based on the benefits or consequences of pleasing or offending this god or Santa demigod. So when they become enlightened to being duped with an agenda for one - and then notice the same agenda and same arguments used for the other - there is great potential that they will transfer that thought process.

That did stop me in my tracks for awhile and make me think. But so many people are still catholic who thought there was a Santa too - so while the inoculation effect might be real I think it is minor. So ultimately it did not convince me to go with the Santa thing. I will protect my kids from religious infection in other ways.