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Does multiculturalism ruin Santa?

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    As for the power of magic and possibility, that is something kids can keep into adulthood and for their whole lives in the simple story of the nativity.

    So their pre-packaged fairy tale is not as good as your pre-packaged fairy tale is pretty much the message this post appears to be giving off :)

    I myself find that neither religion or Santa is required. Children's imagination, love of fantasy, awe, wonder, love of the "power of possibility", curiosity, engagement and much more is something kids can keep into adulthood and for their whole lives in the simply stories of reality. No fairy tales or lies required at all.

    Still although I do not do the Santa thing with my children (4+8 year olds) they are also primed not to go ruining for any other kids. In fact we make quite a fun game out of doing the opposite and actually do things to make other kids buy into it more.


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    #63
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,977 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    super_furry wrote:
    Without multiculturalism there is no Santa.


    So we must kill santie?


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    #64
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Watched the snowman on Sunday, such a lovely simple film what has changed Santa is the overblown American culture of Santa as opposed to its simpler roots in European culture.


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    #65
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    It could be argued that Santa ruined the true meaning of Christmas. Also, telling kids about Santa is a bad idea. Apart from the fact that it is a lie, and could weaken their trust in the parent, it also harms their notion of reality. Just because they know Santa is not real, does not mean they cannot enjoy the Santa experience.

    A child`s innocence is not for the amusement of adults. By trying to preserve their innocence, you may end up destroying it. As for the power of magic and possibility, that is something kids can keep into adulthood and for their whole lives in the simple story of the nativity.

    You must be the person that tells children ‘those Lego figures aren’t real people, stop fooling yourselves’.


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    #66
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,274 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    It could be argued that Santa ruined the true meaning of Christmas. Also, telling kids about Santa is a bad idea. Apart from the fact that it is a lie, and could weaken their trust in the parent, it also harms their notion of reality. Just because they know Santa is not real, does not mean they cannot enjoy the Santa experience.

    A child`s innocence is not for the amusement of adults. By trying to preserve their innocence, you may end up destroying it. As for the power of magic and possibility, that is something kids can keep into adulthood and for their whole lives in the simple story of the nativity.
    What a load of cobblers. I doubt there is a single adult in the country that has issues of trust with their parents due to the Santa myth.

    What there are, are thousands of adults that look back fondly to the days of innocence and can remember the excitement of Santy coming on Christmas morning.


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    #67
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,977 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    MrMusician18 wrote:
    What there are, are thousands of adults that look back fondly to the days of innocence and can remember the excitement of Santy coming on Christmas morning.


    Put a few zeros on the end of that figure to truly represent our reality


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    #68
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Paddy Cow wrote:
    I wasn't sure how to word the title but the cheapskate Santa thread reminded me of something I've thought about in the past. When I was a kid, diversity wasn't a thing. We were all white, Irish and apart from one Protestant kid in the class, Catholic. So we all had the same belief about Santa. Nowadays there is a lot of diversity, which means there will be kids in the class for whom Santa isn't a thing. Does this cause any problems? Do they tell the other kids that Santa isn't real? Do they get upset that they don't get presents?

    You do know that Santa isn't a religious thing right? You will not see a Santa inside a church. The Santa we all know & love isn't St Nicholas.

    Now you know that Santa isn't a religious thing at all you might realise that children of all colours & religions believe in Santa. Just look at them queuing up to visit Santa especially the shopping centres in areas where we have multiple cultures. Maybe you wouldn't notice outside of Dublin.

    While we are on the subject of Christmas I might as well point out that the tree & decorations aren't religious at all either. Decorating trees and shrubs stems back before Christianity. As a result of this 10s of thousands of Irish homes will be decorated even though the owners aren't Christian.

    I've always been a big fan of not letting religion get in touch the way of a good Christmas /Yule time


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    #69
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You do know that Santa isn't a religious thing right? You will not see a Santa inside a church. The Santa we all know & love isn't St Nicholas.

    Now you know that Santa isn't a religious thing at all you might realise that children of all colours & religions believe in Santa. Just look at them queuing up to visit Santa especially the shopping centres in areas where we have multiple cultures. Maybe you wouldn't notice outside of Dublin.

    While we are on the subject of Christmas I might as well point out that the tree & decorations aren't religious at all either. Decorating trees and shrubs stems back before Christianity. As a result of this 10s of thousands of Irish homes will be decorated even though the owners aren't Christian.

    I've always been a big fan of not letting religion get in touch the way of a good Christmas /Yule time

    Why not go the whole hog and call it the midwinter festival, drop the Christmas bit altogether.

    The dour anti-religious zealots are as bad as the religious zealots in a lot of ways.


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    #70
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Why not go the whole hog and call it the midwinter festival, drop the Christmas bit altogether.

    Happy Holidays!


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    #71
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Why not go the whole hog and call it the midwinter festival, drop the Christmas bit altogether.

    The dour anti-religious zealots are as bad as the religious zealots in a lot of ways.


    I'm just pointing out that I am in Muslum, Hindu homes & who knows what other religions & they have the tree & decorations up. I do find it funny that Christians believe that the tree, decorations & most other Christmas traditions (including santa) aren't christian traditions at all. Does anyone remember making a Yule log in school?


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    #72
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Does anyone remember making a Yule log in school?

    Not strictly a yule one but....


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    #73
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,404 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I'm just pointing out that I am in Muslum, Hindu homes & who knows what other religions & they have the tree & decorations up. I do find it funny that Christians believe that the tree, decorations & most other Christmas traditions (including santa) aren't christian traditions at all. Does anyone remember making a Yule log in school?

    The vast majority know the tree has roots in German culture bringing greenery inside in the bleak midwinter has very old roots, Santa/st Nicklaus has mixed pagan/folklore/religious roots, all human ceremonies are made up.


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    #74
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The vast majority know the tree has roots in German culture bringing greenery inside in the bleak midwinter

    I'd respectfully doubt that the vast majority know that at all. Same way that nobody really knows why we gets chocolate eggs when Jesus comes back from the dead


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    #75
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    I love the Grinch. My favourite Christmas film (the older one). Surely the Grinch is someone any of us misanthropic boardsies of any culture could embrace? "Maybe Christmas, perhaps, means a little bit more" ~ Dr Seuss.


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    #76
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    That's more tradition though. There's plenty of people who don't go to mass but still have the church wedding, christening etc

    Then they are poseurs.


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    #77
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    John Sacrimoni wrote: »
    Ray Donovan wrote: »
    I’m a primary school teacher and I make sure our school has a crib in the most prominent place in the building. I’m sure this offends many but it’s a Catholic school so tough ****.

    Exactly, it pisses me off that we are having to change our traditions to accomadate people thag are not from here. If anything it should be the other way around.

    This is how we do things, if people dont like it they can always head off back to wherever it is they came from.

    Yeh, the drive to get religion away from schools is coming largely from Irish people.


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    #78
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    John Sacrimoni wrote: »
    Exactly, it pisses me off that we are having to change our traditions to accomadate people thag are not from here. If anything it should be the other way around.

    I'm from here. How about you take your Middle Eastern religion, German accoutrements, and American commercialism and bugger off?


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    #79
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Fcuking hell, no wonder your posts are filled with joy, cheer up for fcuk sake and embrace the fun. Happy unfun season to you to!

    One can be joyous and have fun without the use of profanity. Merry Christmas.


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    #80
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Lets's weigh it up then.

    A. Our kids get a consumerist crazyfest with any amount of expensive toys and literally boxes of chocalate and two weeks off school.

    B. The other shower get what?... a few sesame seed snack bars for finishing their Eid starvation period or something...

    Can't see anything but one-way traffic on this.


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    #81
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,977 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    One can be joyous and have fun without the use of profanity. Merry Christmas.

    ah cheer up will yea, feck sake


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    #82
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So their pre-packaged fairy tale is not as good as your pre-packaged fairy tale is pretty much the message this post appears to be giving off :)

    I myself find that neither religion or Santa is required.

    To the faithful, Atheism is a belief in the fictitious.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Children's imagination, love of fantasy, awe, wonder, love of the "power of possibility", curiosity, engagement and much more is something kids can keep into adulthood and for their whole lives in the simply stories of reality. No fairy tales or lies required at all.

    ... but no magic? Flying reindeer are nothing. To the faithful, anything is possible in the next life.


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    #83
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,977 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    To the faithful, Atheism is a belief in the fictitious.



    ... but no magic? Flying reindeer are nothing. To the faithful, anything is possible in the next life.

    id say there might be something wrong with the faith. step away from the bible, its causing you issues, you ve gone too far with it. theres no harm in having faith, but there is a point where it becomes harmful, particularly to the individual


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    #84
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    What a load of cobblers. I doubt there is a single adult in the country that has issues of trust with their parents due to the Santa myth.

    ... and yet it does effect children's trust in their parents. It may be in a very small way, it may be in a subconscious way but it is there. For some people, skepticism is the legacy of Santa and the other guardians (tooth fairy, easter bunny, even jack frost).

    In the original Ben Hur, Juda asked Centurion how he lost his faith, and the reply was "go back to your oar number forty one". Santa (and the Guardians) were of course not to blame for Centurion`s lack of faith but it is a good question to ponder.


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    #85
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ah cheer up will yea, feck sake

    Come now, let us not be uncouth this festive season.


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    #86
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Supergurrier wrote: »
    Santa is a purely commercial creation. Nothing to do with any religion.

    You don't even have to go that far back.


    coca cola invented the red suited santa


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    #87
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,977 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Come now, let us not be uncouth this festive season.

    seriously, step back from the faith, just a little, its harming you, greatly


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    #88
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    id say there might be something wrong with the faith. step away from the bible, its causing you issues, you ve gone too far with it. theres no harm in having faith, but there is a point where it becomes harmful, particularly to the individual

    Certainly the corruption of faith is harmful. This is why I propose observing the true meaning of Christmas and not all this nonsense about St Nicholas flying in a sled.


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    #89
    duckofdeath
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭duckofdeath


    The Christmas tradition you're celebrating now is American, not Irish.
    Multiculturalism is the reason you're doing most things the way you're doing them, celebrating most things the way you are.
    If Christmas is changed it's because the people celebrating it changes it. Not because of your disgusting racism.


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    #90
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    seriously, step back from the faith, just a little, its harming you, greatly

    Given your profuse usage of vulgar language, I would say it is you, not I, that has come to harm.


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    #91
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    duckofdeath wrote: »
    The Christmas tradition you're celebrating now is American, not Irish.

    I think everyone who celebrates Christmas, does so in their own way. For some it is slabs of beer, wife beating, parties, plastic Santys etc. For others, it is about the birth of Christ.


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