Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

TITANIUM. · 05-12-2018 06:56PM

wrangler wrote: »

Trade is fairly sick now, wonder why they're not moving.....7000 farmers should be able to be disruptive.
Sure won't prices be rising after christmas anyway.......or so I'd be told

It's over 10 thousand now. And there not moving because their sticking to the plan. And the plan is to have 40k before they start proper. In fairness you properly need that number to make it meaningful. The trade is gone to ****e altogether so that will help to swell their ranks aswell. Their putting in some time and effort travelling around the country trying to get it going, it's a shame the messiah from the west didn't take a leaf outta their book rather then sitting on his hands, but why would he sure isn't milk going grand.

wrangler · 05-12-2018 07:30PM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

It's over 10 thousand now. And there not moving because their sticking to the plan. And the plan is to have 40k before they start proper. In fairness you properly need that number to make it meaningful. The trade is gone to ****e altogether so that will help to swell their ranks aswell. Their putting in some time and effort travelling around the country trying to get it going, it's a shame the messiah from the west didn't take a leaf outta their book rather then sitting on his hands, but why would he sure isn't milk going grand.

IFA didn't put out the hand of friendship to ICSA all those years ago either, This crowd have met IFA haven't they. I've heard so much gossip about them, I don't know what to believe.
Farmers wouldn't withold cattle in 2013, can't see them giving support to IFA to do it now. Any way the BPM would be better off to be independent of IFA at the moment

BPM Meeting here IN Mullingar tonight

patsy_mccabe · 05-12-2018 07:39PM

wrangler wrote: »

...
BPM Meeting here IN Mullingar tonight

Are you going?

wrangler · 05-12-2018 07:41PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Are you going?

No

TITANIUM. · 05-12-2018 07:49PM

wrangler wrote: »

IFA didn't put out the hand of friendship to ICSA all those years ago either, This crowd have met IFA haven't they. I've heard so much gossip about them, I don't know what to believe.
Farmers wouldn't withold cattle in 2013, can't see them giving support to IFA to do it now. Any way the BPM would be better off to be independent of IFA at the moment

BPM Meeting here IN Mullingar tonight

I wasn't referring to any meetings or getting the ifa in behind them. I was on about the inaction over the the last number of years. But more importantly the realisation that you can't just send out a txt and expect an army of farmers to turn up. These people need to be stirred up and got going, radical protest doesn't come naturally to us. I think the BPM guys understand this and that's where the other farm organisations always fall down. It's a sad statement really but allot of farmers need help to convince/motivate them to back a plan that's designed to help them.
I can see perfectly well how it frustrated you over the years.

Will you go to the meeting? Twould help kill a piece of the evening for you!

wrangler · 05-12-2018 08:01PM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I wasn't referring to any meetings or getting the ifa in behind them. I was on about the inaction over the the last number of years. But more importantly the realisation that you can't just send out a txt and expect an army of farmers to turn up. These people need to be stirred up and got going, radical protest doesn't come naturally to us. I think the BPM guys understand this and that's where the other farm organisations always fall down. It's a sad statement really but allot of farmers need help to convince/motivate them to back a plan that's designed to help them.
I can see perfectly well how it frustrated you over the years.

Will you go to the meeting? Twould help kill a piece of the evening for you!

I put a lot of work into ICSA, Farmers were generous too, I think we were collecting €50/hd, beef farmers were looking for an alternative at the time too. didn't take off the way I thought it would
BPM could do worse than meet them, Their chief exec Eddie Punch is very good. Office and infrastructure in place in the centre of the country

patsy_mccabe · 05-12-2018 09:17PM

wrangler wrote: »

I put a lot of work into ICSA, Farmers were generous too, I think we were collecting €50/hd, beef farmers were looking for an alternative at the time too. didn't take off the way I thought it would
BPM could do worse than meet them, Their chief exec Eddie Punch is very good. Office and infrastructure in place in the centre of the country

That makes sense. Crazy to have to go putting all this work into something that's already in place. At the very least, they could benefit from their expertise.

Base price · 05-12-2018 09:34PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

From Gort mart;

https://www.facebook.com/100013269911466/videos/563211027464556/?t=9

I watched most of the video but lost patience with the Q&A session as unfortunately you cannot hear most of the audience questions/comments.

One thing thing that Eamon Corley said that caught my attention was in relation to producer groups. He said that some of our producer groups could sell directly from farm to the customers base (via contracts with smaller abattoirs) at the cost of production plus a margin so if a few farmers can get it everyone will want it.

I thought the movement was going trying to get the same deal for all farmers or did I pick it up wrong. It's at 18.00 on the video.

CloughCasey1 · 05-12-2018 09:35PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

That makes sense. Crazy to have to go putting all this work into something that's already in place. At the very least, they could benefit from their expertise.

Couldnt agree more. We need as many competent speakers as possible representing us. They have been there before.

wrangler · 05-12-2018 10:08PM

Base price wrote: »

I watched most of the video but lost patience with the Q&A session as unfortunately you cannot hear most of the audience questions/comments.

One thing thing that Eamon Corley said that caught my attention was in relation to producer groups. He said that some of our producer groups could sell directly from farm to the customers base (via contracts with smaller abattoirs) at the cost of production plus a margin so if a few farmers can get it everyone will want it.

I thought the movement was going trying to get the same deal for all farmers or did I pick it up wrong. It's at 18.00 on the video.

You have to get out there and sell the whole animal, extraemely hard work and you could be competing with the abbatoir that's slaughtering. for you.
They'll be competing for local markets too, you don't want to go that route.
Corley should've stayed with his producer group and worked on that, they're not going to run all ireland as one group, if they could gather 1000 cattle a week they'd be better off.

TITANIUM. · 07-12-2018 10:53AM

The Kerry meeting for the Beef plan movement is on next Tuesday night at 8 o'clock in Kenmare mart. It might suit some of the lads from west cork to travel to it rather then to travel to the cork meeting in kanturk.

patsy_mccabe · 08-12-2018 02:47PM

Factory Trimming
Cut & pasted from Eamon Corley on WhatsApp

Take a good quality steer U+ 2+ booked in at a base price of €4.00 per kg. If due to excess trimming he gets knocked back down fatscore wise to a U+ 2-. He will loose the 12 c quality assurance plus the 24 c conformation bonus. That's 36 c/ kg
.36× 400kg = €144
Also if 6kg were trimmed that would be 6× 4 = €24
So the total loss for this beast would be 144 + 24= €168
The consequence of dropping a fatscore or 2 is far more serious than the amount of weight trimmed..The amount of illegal trimming is an open ended question. The loss could easily be any figure from 1 to 300 euro. The above figures are correctly worked out. That is what I do on a weekly basis.

I understand how trimming is used to reduce the amount paid to the farmer, but will it not devalue the carcass by over trimming?

Limestone Cowboy · 08-12-2018 02:51PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Factory Trimming
Cut & pasted from Eamon Corley on WhatsApp

Take a good quality steer U+ 2+ booked in at a base price of €4.00 per kg. If due to excess trimming he gets knocked back down fatscore wise to a U+ 2-. He will loose the 12 c quality assurance plus the 24 c conformation bonus. That's 36 c/ kg
.36× 400kg = €144
Also if 6kg were trimmed that would be 6× 4 = €24
So the total loss for this beast would be 144 + 24= €168
The consequence of dropping a fatscore or 2 is far more serious than the amount of weight trimmed..The amount of illegal trimming is an open ended question. The loss could easily be any figure from 1 to 300 euro. The above figures are correctly worked out. That is what I do on a weekly basis.

I understand how trimming is used to reduce the amount paid to the farmer, but will it not devalue the carcass by over trimming?

I'd doubt the trim is going into a skip. Probably being minced and used in burgers and the like.

Never wrestle with pigs · 08-12-2018 02:58PM

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I'd doubt the trim is going into a skip. Probably being minced and used in burgers and the like.

Exactly, the same with where the legal spot that they are supposed to cut the front legs. If they take an extra few inches off it would be 4/5 kg easy on a good boned type.

CloughCasey1 · 08-12-2018 02:59PM

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Exactly, the same with where the legal spot that they are supposed to cut the front legs. If they take an extra few inches off it would be 4/5 kg easy on a good boned type.

Same with the neck. All adds up

wrangler · 08-12-2018 03:19PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Factory Trimming
Cut & pasted from Eamon Corley on WhatsApp

Take a good quality steer U+ 2+ booked in at a base price of €4.00 per kg. If due to excess trimming he gets knocked back down fatscore wise to a U+ 2-. He will loose the 12 c quality assurance plus the 24 c conformation bonus. That's 36 c/ kg
.36× 400kg = €144
Also if 6kg were trimmed that would be 6× 4 = €24
So the total loss for this beast would be 144 + 24= €168
The consequence of dropping a fatscore or 2 is far more serious than the amount of weight trimmed..The amount of illegal trimming is an open ended question. The loss could easily be any figure from 1 to 300 euro. The above figures are correctly worked out. That is what I do on a weekly basis.

I understand how trimming is used to reduce the amount paid to the farmer, but will it not devalue the carcass by over trimming?

And would there be 6kg fat on a 2 -, don't know if I'd give 4/kg for fat
Is 2- good enough for supermarkets, I wouldn't consider 2- good carcase, at home we wouldn't consider fatscore 2 in a lamb for the freezer good quality never mind 2-
Any time I've asked over the years at factories what should we be aiming for, the answer would be R3s, good quality, easier sourced and sold.
You need a proper presentation to teach guys about grading before you can criticise,
FBD sponsored this guy to come from England to tullamore and ICM for our producer group,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4BTzRszQ7M
He picked out some lambs that were assembled for the factory, told us how to pick them and how they'd grade, then next morning himself and ICM showed through the factory, as it turned out ICM were more generous with the grading than he was but not by much , but they knew he was coming

EBLEX does that for beef producers as well

wrangler · 08-12-2018 03:34PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Same with the neck. All adds up

Very easy check the neck and legs by walking through the chills,
If the PS were doing anything at all they'd see that.
In fact there's no reason why they can't see overtrimming in the chills if its to the extent of dropping a fatscore

Sheep breeder · 09-12-2018 12:31AM

wrangler wrote: »

So to stop you supplying they'd have to block the gates of the factory like the 2000.... except that's illegal now
I had 40 cattle going to Kildare the first morning of the blockade so it cost me abit more than standing at the gates

That morning in Kildare there was a yard full of cattle in and we worked away flat out and nobody stopped the staff going in or out.

Sheep breeder · 09-12-2018 12:43AM

Robson99 wrote: »

Is it worth looking into the Dairy men getting a grant of say €50 for every bull calf born and for them to be put down, instead of this €40 grant to suckler farmers
Or is this too simplistic a view on it

Good move Prop up the dairy farmer with his poor jersey and friesan bull calf and put more money in his pocket.
Sooner the better the calf reared realises the cost of calf and cops on making the dairy man up.

Sheep breeder · 09-12-2018 12:48AM

whelan2 wrote: »

As long as lads are willing g to pay stupid money in the calf ring, this will continue on. The dairy man /woman just takes the price there. The last couple of trips to the mart with calves amazed me. Getting near 100 euro over what's being paid in the yard. Farmer buyers

Very true what your saying, talking to a mart owner on Monday he sold Jex and fr spring born bulls from 90 to 150 Euro last week which the owner stated cost 75 ahead last February coming in before feeding, as long as this continues the beef game is f cked.

older by the day · 09-12-2018 12:58AM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Good move Prop up the dairy farmer with his poor jersey and friesan bull calf and put more money in his pocket.
Sooner the better the calf reared realises the cost of calf and cops on making the dairy man up.

I think that blaming each other is pointless, the movement seems to be movingto support suckler beef only, as if the people rearing the bucket Fed calfs are the bad guys. Can't blame dairy farmers because their cows have a calf every year. I was thinking of joining im mixed farming, but if its only going to be bitching over sucklers vs dairy i wont. Its a democratic country, the minister is michael creed why dont ye rattle his cage instead of at each other

wrangler · 09-12-2018 01:00AM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

That morning in Kildare there was a yard full of cattle in and we worked away flat out and nobody stopped the staff going in or out.

You couldn't get them out though

'twas a bita crack though.
It was blocked then for 2 -3 weeks then wasn't it, I was sent to Klbeggan. they gave in in about 2 days

Sheep breeder · 09-12-2018 01:13AM

Having read this thread and a couple of things,
First save the suckler is a pr stunt by the ifa and the rag as ireland is fully decoupled in 2005 with the sps from the animal to land and there is no going backwards.
Second the price of the dairy calf is totally out of line with the end price.
Thirdly a day by ever beef producers in the factory and follow their cattle up the line would learn them so much about feeding and killing cattle, the pub talk about leg trim and fat scores would be put to bed very quickly and open fellas eyes as how to produce beef.
There is a neighbour who kills a good few cattle and can tell you from looking at cattle what grade and how much killout and more important what price at the end per animal.
The amount of beef men who rely on the factory agent view of their cattle ( and they are being paid to source cattle for the factory and are making a living on the backs of farmers) and accepting the price he quotes with out ringing around factories.
Farmers need to take a business approach with the factories.

wrangler · 09-12-2018 01:46AM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Having read this thread and a couple of things,
First save the suckler is a pr stunt by the ifa and the rag as ireland is fully decoupled in 2005 with the sps from the animal to land and there is no going backwards.
Second the price of the dairy calf is totally out of line with the end price.
Thirdly a day by ever beef producers in the factory and follow their cattle up the line would learn them so much about feeding and killing cattle, the pub talk about leg trim and fat scores would be put to bed very quickly and open fellas eyes as how to produce beef.
There is a neighbour who kills a good few cattle and can tell you from looking at cattle what grade and how much killout and more important what price at the end per animal.
The amount of beef men who rely on the factory agent view of their cattle ( and they are being paid to source cattle for the factory and are making a living on the backs of farmers) and accepting the price he quotes with out ringing around factories.
Farmers need to take a business approach with the factories.

Like your neighbour everyone should do their own business, follow the cattle up the line, wonder what his opinion of grading and trim is, can't be too bad if he's able to project the killout and grade, I've little interest in it but I'd make a fair stab at it in the lambs.
It's scandalous what's going on, accusations without proof are a joke and sound paranoid. posters slander me, you couldn't make it up really
Sure we'll enjoy the crack of the next few mths.......I've a feeling we're in for a rough ride in the beef trade, cracks are coming already

Keepgrowing · 09-12-2018 08:36AM

Has anybody in this group admitted that there’s an over supply of beef across Europe? No matter what you might think of the factories and they’re no angles they’re hardly making a killing when the chills across Europe are full.

The one thing that’s very unsavoury about this movement and every Ifa meeting I attend is the fact that dairy farmers calves get the blame at the start of every discussion.

wrangler · 09-12-2018 08:55AM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Has anybody in this group admitted that there’s an over supply of beef across Europe? No matter what you might think of the factories and they’re no angles they’re hardly making a killing when the chills across Europe are full.

The one thing that’s very unsavoury about this movement and every Ifa meeting I attend is the fact that dairy farmers calves get the blame at the start of every discussion.

I've often said that the begrudgers should try to sell a couple thousand ton of beef just to check out the trade before criticising.
True there's a lot of dairy calves around but if they can be marketed it's the same to the factory as a kilo of beef breed. It's up to the farmer then if the price is good enough to go ahead. would you bother with cows if your production cost is 5c/ltr above milk price....I doubt it.
There's no surprises this year, it's not as if beef price was always a good price at the end of the year

patsy_mccabe · 09-12-2018 09:48AM

And as every year goes by, more and more of these developing countries will be exporting beef.
I'm normally not that pessimistic, but I think for beef farmers it is all downhill from now on. I think more and more of the bigger beef farms will convert to dairy.

Reggie. · 09-12-2018 10:38AM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Has anybody in this group admitted that there’s an over supply of beef across Europe? No matter what you might think of the factories and they’re no angles they’re hardly making a killing when the chills across Europe are full.

The one thing that’s very unsavoury about this movement and every Ifa meeting I attend is the fact that dairy farmers calves get the blame at the start of every discussion.

In fairness to them keepgrowing at the last meeting they were saying that dairy farmers need an outlook for their calves too. There was no dairy bashing at it. I do think tho suckler farming is in for a tough time in the future

Keepgrowing · 09-12-2018 11:55AM

Reggie. wrote: »

In fairness to them keepgrowing at the last meeting they were saying that dairy farmers need an outlook for their calves too. There was no dairy bashing at it. I do think tho suckler farming is in for a tough time in the future

What’s their plan for the over supply of beef in Europe?
I attended their local meeting and lots of plans but viable solutions.
Any thing to do with genomics was rubbished yet it has made the Irish dairy herd one of the most fertile in the world.

wrangler · 09-12-2018 12:15PM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

What’s their plan for the over supply of beef in Europe?
I attended their local meeting and lots of plans but viable solutions.
Any thing to do with genomics was rubbished yet it has made the Irish dairy herd one of the most fertile in the world.

Bit of a one trick pony
You'd think they'd be more concerned about the CAP and Carbon negotiations.
As a group beef farmers have the highest subsidies, you'd think they'd be marking them to protect us when they claim no one else is any good at it. Brexit isn't going to effect us either

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

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