Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

kerryjack · 01-12-2018 09:52AM

Ya it sounds like a good idea, so it's a another seat at the table but this time has a button on the phone to stop supply is that the jist of it.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 01-12-2018 09:55AM

Mod note: Right folks, I'll make this extremely clear. Remain civil to each when discussing here or your right to post in this thread will be removed. Cheap shots aren't going to be allowed here so please don't post those comments.

Buford T. Justice

patsy_mccabe · 01-12-2018 10:40AM

The genomics scheme has nothing to do with producing the best weanling. It is about PROFIT. Christ, you can say it till you're blue in the face and still farmers don't get it.
Annoys me that so much time and resources have been allocated to this scheme and it's all dismissed by 'know it all' gob****es.

wrangler · 01-12-2018 10:52AM

kerryjack wrote: »

Ya it sounds like a good idea, so it's a another seat at the table but this time has a button on the phone to stop supply is that the jist of it.

As long as the Comp authority don't confiscate your phone, they'll be watching this crowd like a hawk.
We weren't even allowed negotiate price when we'd meet the factories.
The most subtle threat we could make was ''don't worry if you see us at the gate for a while....we want to measure it to see how many barrels it'll need''

kerryjack · 01-12-2018 11:18AM

Larry is still holding all the Aces he can sit back, slow down production send his workers home and wait till we come crawling back, because we have to eventually. Super markets won't care they will just horse out more chicken, the only one that will do well is local butcher and there ls the answer if everyone on the group stayed out of the supermarket and back to local butcher you might get a small squeeze there.

Siamsa Sessions · 01-12-2018 02:29PM

As Larry said years ago, he could could buy every farmer in Ireland for an extra penny in the lb.

All he really exposed with that statement is that farmers are stuck when it comes to dealing with nature. We’re price takers, now more than ever.

There’s no historic precedent of Irish people working together either, making any “mass movement” even harder.

Long-term, farmers need representation that will educate and inform the public about the true cost of food, be it local stuff and imported stuff. At the moment, processors and retailers are codding the people into buying what has the biggest margin for them. Farmers need to fight that battle. This might not lead to more high quality cuts of beef being bought but at least farmers will then have some control, whatever the consumer then decides to buy.

Robson99 · 01-12-2018 08:07PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Morning all.
I think it is time to get a bit more streetwise.
Blockades at the factory gates are a waste of time as it usually dwindles in support the longer the protest lasts and are illegal.
Blocking up the streets in towns and cities will have a negative effect with a public who have become disconnected with the farming community. Remember it is now "cooler" to be a vegan than a farmer!
You also cant and wont stop farmers with cattle coming of age for slaughter sending cattle without a plan in place.

Solutions.
1. FINISHERS. Should be asked to plan ahead to have their stock finished 3 weeks earlier than usual. In my own scenario id push cattle to 29mts 28days if i could. If finishers finished 3 weeks earlier at 24, 30 and 36 months then if a boycott was called for 3days or even a whole week at shortish notice then they have 2 weeks to get cattle killed once the boycott is lifted. I would not ask the man finishing u16mt bulls for qa to take part in this boycott. They represent only a small % of the market so if 3k bulls were slaughtered it represents less than 10% of the weekly kill. Their margin needs every last day of feeding.

2. PROTESTS. Every single event held in this country by the President of the IFA Joe Healy and Minister Creed both should be followed and protest there. Even better if the cameras are there. Stand in front of them sabotage every meeting or junket the IFA hold or the minister attends. They are supposed to be representing farming as a whole not just the Dairy sector (no offence ladies and gentlemen milkers). They are elected in place by the people for the people to get better fairer deals in place. They are leaning on the side of the factories as that is where the power is and naturally enough power brings fear and these guys are afraid to tackle the big issues that fall at every farm gate in the country.Unfortunately we have our own breed on here who has his paw so long in the greasy till he has become soft to the establishment and hardened against his own kind. SHAME ON YOU RANGLER.

3. SUCKLER MEN. Forget about the few pound from yer BGDP schemes and the eurostars. As simple Simon stared at its conception it would result in more calves/cow/year and less greenhouse gases per livestock unit. So more poorer quality beef animals that mature earlier and kill out lighter with no profit for the suckler man nor the finisher. They pushed for 5 star cows that would rear a poorer quality calf more efficiently. Ive not met one suckler farmer who had a 5 star cow rear his best calf. Run a few quiet dairy bred milky 5 stars alright but let them be there to allow a good weanling take an extra sup of milk as needed.

4. NSAI. We need to get the NSAI on board get a few standards in place. Firstly there needs to be NSAI certification put in place and monthly checks on grading machines in factories and the weighing of the carcass. The IFA levies from our factory cheques should be transferred to this scheme to firstly pay for the NSAI certification of standard in carcass grading. These grading machines need to be checked monthly by an NSAI auditor and a system set up that shows conformity of standards on a daily basis. There should also be a set standard set up for skinning the hyde from cattle and especially on the over trimming of the carcass. If there is a set standard in place then there can be no deviations on losing the extra few kg from over trimming of fat or at the neck area.

5. The beef plan should also push for the weekly tonnage of beef to match the numbers killed. It is like comparing apples to oranges to expect poorer cattle (factories have been showing us poorer grades and weights on a sliding downward scale for the last few years) to be weighing as heavy dead as cattle with better weights and grades were 5 years ago. A 25kg decline in carcass is 1,000,000kg of beef on a 40k weekly kill! With beef brisket on the bone (cheapest cut) been quoted at €7 per kg in the butchers thats a whole lot of extra beef that had disappeared over time......OR HAS IT....!!

Well said Clough

Robson99 · 01-12-2018 08:20PM

The local politicians are what should be targeted. Now is the time to threaten them that farmers will not vote for any of them when the next election comes around.
See what the pensioners and those against water charges achieved
Depending on the IFA to help beef farming out is a waste of time and energy. They come out with the same ****e time and time again.
We lobbied, we lobbied even harder we met this one and that one but we just couldnt do it. Why because they look after themselves first and foremost.
All in bed together Larry, Politicians, IFA, Bord Bia, IMI ( another bunch of wasters) Teagasc ( Funded by the farmers and what is their purpose??) All watching their own corner and laughing at the farmer

Mac Taylor · 01-12-2018 08:24PM

Demand for beef is falling, dairying is worth more to the economy than sucklers ever will be...... too many animals in the country....green gas emissions etc etc.

Give it a few years suckler farming will be a niche business and only then might there be a few quid out of it.

Talking of boycotting factories, supermarkets etc is unfortunately just a waste of good time.

Should we just do nothing......maybe. By the way doesn’t mean I’m happy with the situation but sometimes you have to known when the battle is lost.

wrangler · 01-12-2018 08:32PM

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Demand for beef is falling, dairying is worth more to the economy that sucklers ever will be...... too many animals in the country....green gas emissions etc etc.

Give it a few years suckler farming will be a niche business and only then might there be a few quid out of it.

Talking of boycotting factories, supermarkets etc is unfortunately just a waste of good time.

Should we just do nothing......maybe. By the way doesn’t mean I’m happy with the situation but sometimes you have to known when the battle is lost.

And poor prices across Europe, easy now for a buyer to turn to another country if you rise price, you have to be competitive at the end of the day.
Ireland is the cheapest beef but costs extra to get to mainland Europe
Too much dairy beef now too, processors can buy that anywhere in Europe but our suckler beef had a demand

Robson99 · 01-12-2018 08:36PM

Is it worth looking into the Dairy men getting a grant of say €50 for every bull calf born and for them to be put down, instead of this €40 grant to suckler farmers
Or is this too simplistic a view on it

jaymla627 · 01-12-2018 08:42PM

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Demand for beef is falling, dairying is worth more to the economy than sucklers ever will be...... too many animals in the country....green gas emissions etc etc.

Give it a few years suckler farming will be a niche business and only then might there be a few quid out of it.

Talking of boycotting factories, supermarkets etc is unfortunately just a waste of good time.

Should we just do nothing......maybe. By the way doesn’t mean I’m happy with the situation but sometimes you have to known when the battle is lost.

The bull calf from the dairy herd is going to have tone go the Bobby-calf road too, the believe from teagasc/journal etc that lads are going to keep rearing calves to beef nd at a lost/barely break-even is dumb-fonding.....
The crap been spouted re sexed semen and more better breed beef bulls been is simply window dressing

whelan2 · 01-12-2018 08:47PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

The bull calf from the dairy herd is going to have tone go the Bobby-calf road too, the believe from teagasc/journal etc that lads are going to keep rearing calves to beef nd at a lost/barely break-even is dumb-fonding.....
The crap been spouted re sexed semen and more better breed beef bulls been is simply window dressing

As long as lads are willing g to pay stupid money in the calf ring, this will continue on. The dairy man /woman just takes the price there. The last couple of trips to the mart with calves amazed me. Getting near 100 euro over what's being paid in the yard. Farmer buyers

Mac Taylor · 01-12-2018 08:51PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

The bull calf from the dairy herd is going to have tone go the Bobby-calf road too, the believe from teagasc/journal etc that lads are going to keep rearing calves to beef nd at a lost/barely break-even is dumb-fonding.....
The crap been spouted re sexed semen and more better breed beef bulls been is simply window dressing

My understanding is sexed semen results are only average, could we develop a veal business in this country. Can’t see how they will square the circle with our farming image if we have to deal with Bobby calves.

Trying to put meat on Jerseys and Holsteins is akin to trying to fatten a greyhound.

From my perspective having given it a lot of consideration I’m going to cut back and play the system as much as possible. Better than being a busy fool for someone elae

wrangler · 01-12-2018 08:53PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

The bull calf from the dairy herd is going to have tone go the Bobby-calf road too, the believe from teagasc/journal etc that lads are going to keep rearing calves to beef nd at a lost/barely break-even is dumb-fonding.....
The crap been spouted re sexed semen and more better breed beef bulls been is simply window dressing

Neighbour sold beef this week from dairy bred anguses 7Rs and an O
So the Rs are out there somewhere. rearers should stop buying the potential Os
Shouldn't need a destruction scheme if the dairy farmers couldn't move the poorer ones

whelan2 · 01-12-2018 09:11PM

wrangler wrote: »

Neighbour sold beef this week from dairy bred anguses 7Rs and an O
So the Rs are out there somewhere. rearers should stop buying the potential Os
Shouldn't need a destruction scheme if the dairy farmers couldn't move the poorer ones

I know from my last few trips to the mart certain farmers want my calves. They are happy with the calves, I'm happy with the price. They know they are getting good Angus calves from British friesian cows. Takes the lucky bag risk out of it

wrangler · 01-12-2018 09:19PM

whelan2 wrote: »

I know from my last few trips to the mart certain farmers want my calves. They are happy with the calves, I'm happy with the price. They know they are getting good Angus calves from British friesian cows. Takes the lucky bag risk out of it

Magic words there is british friesian,
factory told neighbour that he should get QA, He'd have 12c/kg extra, I told him he'd be unlikely to find that percentage of Rs again, He only has eight, imagine trying for QA and maybe only one or two being good enough

coolshannagh28 · 01-12-2018 09:44PM

Maximise subsidy , minimise exposure to farming , in a subsidised marketplace it is virtually impossible to profit enough to subsist. The Beef plan movement can ensure that farmers are compensated in return for providing a subsidised product : ensure subsidy is transparent and not watered down by govt agencies and 3rd parties .French farming is a template for them , highly radicalised and highly subsidised.

Bass Reeves · 01-12-2018 10:38PM

wrangler wrote: »

Magic words there is british friesian,
factory told neighbour that he should get QA, He'd have 12c/kg extra, I told him he'd be unlikely to find that percentage of Rs again, He only has eight, imagine trying for QA and maybe only one or two being good enough

You get QA on all cattle above O= most angus grade that or better QA is a gimme the first time. For some one with only 10-12 cattle and selling in 1 or 2 goes Qa is very easy to manage. A well if QA you can get the AA bonus. Some plants you have a once off registeration fee other jus pay it flat anyway. Some factorys along with not paying QA will penalize you another 10-20c/kg or not take you cattle for slaughter anyway.

Even if you are only getting the 12c/kg and AA bonus on a 330 kg Carcass it is worth 72 euro/head.

As a matter where did he send them were they machine graded or eye graded. Even at that there is a factory in the midlands where the price is sh!te but Friesians will grade ''R'' or so I am told with certain loads. Having said that after transport you are no better off.

patsy_mccabe · 04-12-2018 12:49PM

From the Clare WhatsApp group;
Gort Mart tonight at 8pm.

Everybody from the counties of Clare and Galway this is your meeting tonight.

Make sure everybody on this page goes and also send a txt to every farmer on your phone in particular the people not on what's app .

You should get them to do likewise. Ring a few local farmers and fill your car. This is a team effort,all it takes is a call . You will not win this battle on our own.

The time has come to stand up and fight for your right to farm.

If you can retype and send the below message to all farmers on your phone.

" Beef Plan meeting in Gort mart tonight 8pm last chance for Beef and suckler farmers .The time has come to stand up and fight. You cant afford to miss this meeting.Pass on this message to all farmers involved in beef. "
Eamon Corley

Mooooo · 04-12-2018 02:00PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You get QA on all cattle above O= most angus grade that or better QA is a gimme the first time. For some one with only 10-12 cattle and selling in 1 or 2 goes Qa is very easy to manage. A well if QA you can get the AA bonus. Some plants you have a once off registeration fee other jus pay it flat anyway. Some factorys along with not paying QA will penalize you another 10-20c/kg or not take you cattle for slaughter anyway.

Even if you are only getting the 12c/kg and AA bonus on a 330 kg Carcass it is worth 72 euro/head.

As a matter where did he send them were they machine graded or eye graded. Even at that there is a factory in the midlands where the price is sh!te but Friesians will grade ''R'' or so I am told with certain loads. Having said that after transport you are no better off.

QA has feck all to do with grades. Every packet of mince they send out is QA on the consumer side whether it came from a fancy bullock or a 12 year old p cow. It's only free advertising for them

Bass Reeves · 04-12-2018 04:46PM

Mooooo wrote: »

QA has feck all to do with grades. Every packet of mince they send out is QA on the consumer side whether it came from a fancy bullock or a 12 year old p cow. It's only free advertising for them

I agree QA had little to do with grades and that meat from cattle that do not get QA payment because of grading O- or below is soldas QA. However QA is paid on all cattle above O=. Wrangler post was giving the opinion any O grade cattle did not get QA which is incorrect

bogman_bass · 05-12-2018 03:41PM

I think beef plan is going the way I feared it would. It’s a populist movement and like any populist movement has done absolutely nothing to contain peoples expectations. What’s worse a lot of it’s members are using it as a stick to beat the established farm organizations with.

When the buzz dies I have a feeling the emperor will be found to have no clothes on. And then all that will be achieved is a weakening of our representative bodies.

Limestone Cowboy · 05-12-2018 03:52PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

I think beef plan is going the way I feared it would. It’s a populist movement and like any populist movement has done absolutely nothing to contain peoples expectations. What’s worse a lot of it’s members are using it as a stick to beat the established farm organizations with.

When the buzz dies I have a feeling the emperor will be found to have no clothes on. And then all that will be achieved is a weakening of our representative bodies.

What's the alternative?

wrangler · 05-12-2018 03:53PM

bogman_bass wrote: »

I think beef plan is going the way I feared it would. It’s a populist movement and like any populist movement has done absolutely nothing to contain peoples expectations. What’s worse a lot of it’s members are using it as a stick to beat the established farm organizations with.

When the buzz dies I have a feeling the emperor will be found to have no clothes on. And then all that will be achieved is a weakening of our representative bodies.

It mightn't, If it fails it'll just prove that IFA did all it could,
If by some freak that farmers do withold cattle and it succeeds, then it proves what I was saying......without a lever we were at nothing.
Cattle will have to be witheld for more than a day or even a week Most processor would have access to enough cattle to keep them going for a long time, Unlike the protest in 2000 the gates won't be blocked, they'll be able to bring in their own cattle.
IFA was reasonably unaffected by the reforming of ICSA, This'll be the same

patsy_mccabe · 05-12-2018 04:18PM

From Gort mart;

https://www.facebook.com/100013269911466/videos/563211027464556/?t=9

wrangler · 05-12-2018 04:54PM

Trade is fairly sick now, wonder why they're not moving.....7000 farmers should be able to be disruptive.
Sure won't prices be rising after christmas anyway.......or so I'd be told

Siamsa Sessions · 05-12-2018 05:04PM

Need to pick winnable fights and take baby steps; e.g. carcass trim - aim to get a farmer/rep on the factory floor to check nothing underhand is going on.

This isn’t the be all and end all but is more realistic than trying to get lads to withhold cattle for days or weeks on end

patsy_mccabe · 05-12-2018 05:30PM

I couldn't make it to Gort last night, but watched the video there. All I can say is play play to them. Raised some very good points. If they come to Clare, I'll be there.

wrangler · 05-12-2018 05:58PM

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Need to pick winnable fights and take baby steps; e.g. carcass trim - aim to get a farmer/rep on the factory floor to check nothing underhand is going on.

This isn’t the be all and end all but is more realistic than trying to get lads to withhold cattle for days or weeks on end

Processors wouldn't allow it and even if they did he wouldn't be a month in the place before he'd be accused of being in the factory pocket....you couldn't make it up really.
That was the problem before mechanical grading, no one trusted the graders, there is no answer to this. If you go back here posters were accusing dept AOs of letting factories see their records

Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

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