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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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  • #7472
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I've seen a few Conservative politician state that there will be a last minute fudge. David Davies said that these things always go to the eleventh hour. So maybe on the 28th of March, EU & UK officials will get together and sort out the actual deal, and what we're in now is just an extended period of playacting.

    ....or maybe not....


  • #7473
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    According to the legal doc 2 different customs unions, 1 for the north, the other for the rest of the UK, with NI treating the rest of the UK as a 3rd country. So the DUP will be raging about that, not that it should be a surprise anyway.


  • #7474
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Hurrache wrote: »
    So the DUP will be raging about that, not that it should be a surprise anyway.


    That scene in Scanners comes to mind.


  • #7475
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1070288151208443904

    That alone would be enough to kill the WA.


  • #7476
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,987 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    briany wrote: »
    I've seen a few Conservative politician state that there will be a last minute fudge. David Davies said that these things always go to the eleventh hour. So maybe on the 28th of March, EU & UK officials will get together and sort out the actual deal, and what we're in now is just an extended period of playacting.

    ....or maybe not....


    Does anyone bar the hardcore brexiteer's seriously still believes DD's fantasist claims after he's been proven to be wrong or lied about literally everything since this farce began?


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  • #7477
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1070288151208443904

    That alone would be enough to kill the WA.

    The DUP will go ballistic.


  • #7478
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    That alone would be enough to kill the WA.

    Absolutely.


  • #7479
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    That's one possible (outside) reason why TM may just get the WA past the post!

    Brexiteers may soon realise that any from of Brexit (i.e the one on offer/on the table) is better than the looming/increasing risk of no Brexit at all!
    If the ECJ does go with the extraordinary declaration that A50 notification can be withdrawn unilaterally, then I can definitely see Brexiteers panicking and taking a deal at almost any cost.

    Because without a deal, the UK would have no good reason not to cancel Brexit beyond, "we said we wouldn't".


  • #7480
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,801 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    The DUP will go ballistic.


    They'd probably already been leaked a copy which is why they voted against TM yesterday claiming she broke their agreement first.


  • #7481
    Panrich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,002 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Para 21 puts an interesting spin on how we may pressure the EU to end the temporary backstop. How we would go about that is not clear.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/761852/05_December-_EU_Exit_Attorney_General_s_legal_advice_to_Cabinet_on_the_Withdrawal_Agreement_and_the_Protocol_on_Ireland-Northern_Ireland.pdf


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  • #7482
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1070291061988302853

    So unlike the EU which they can leave tomorrow if they wished . There is no legal way to leave the backstop which is the point. They will be in the backstop forever basically. This is a terrible deal for the UK but sure we all knew this


  • #7483
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1070288254430253056


    And now the moronic ideas are floating again. How about a backstop that isn't a backstop!


  • #7484
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1070288254430253056


    And now the moronic ideas are floating again. How about a backstop that isn't a backstop!

    But what status are they then locked into if they don't agree on the backstop? In the event of that vote happening it would be a choice of option A being the backstop or option B the backstop.


  • #7485
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,610 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    tuxy wrote: »
    It was not known if article 50 could be revoked. We now know that it can.
    It would take another referendum for it to happen though.
    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    May has been driving the Brexit bus towards the cliff, preferring to stay in the drivers seat than admit it's madness and let someone else drive. But now the cliff is getting very close.
    MPs have spent the last 2 years cheering and singing and fighting at the back of the bus, but now that they see the drop, they don't like the look of it.
    So now some are looking for the Brexit Emergency Exit.
    listermint wrote: »
    The mandate is simple the brexit that was on the table is not deliverable .
    What is deliverable has no mandate.
    Can't make it any simpler.
    There is no mandate for brexit at all costs. None. Never was

    Thanks for the replies.

    So they can't have the Brexit they want and they don't want the Brexit they've been offered.
    What happens next?
    No Brexit?

    A la Monty Python I'm waiting for someone to stand up and say "Stop that. It's silly!" but I just don't think it's going to happen.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #7486
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    briany wrote: »
    I've seen a few Conservative politician state that there will be a last minute fudge. David Davies said that these things always go to the eleventh hour. So maybe on the 28th of March, EU & UK officials will get together and sort out the actual deal, and what we're in now is just an extended period of playacting.

    ....or maybe not....

    That is most definitely a thread of thought from the UK, that the EU will always get a deal at the last minute. The only problem with this is that it needs to go through the various votes and confirmations in the EU as well so they could agree a deal on the 28th March but there is no way to get it through all the EU processes that it needs to pass. The deadline is not in March but sometime soon so the time for a new deal is now.

    Panrich wrote: »
    Para 21 puts an interesting spin on how we may pressure the EU to end the temporary backstop. How we would go about that is not clear.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/761852/05_December-_EU_Exit_Attorney_General_s_legal_advice_to_Cabinet_on_the_Withdrawal_Agreement_and_the_Protocol_on_Ireland-Northern_Ireland.pdf

    But NI will have different customs and regulations rules than the UK so I don't see how it is an advantage over us, who will be in the same customs union and single market (effectively) as us. So what benefit will they have over us?


  • #7487
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1070288254430253056


    And now the moronic ideas are floating again. How about a backstop that isn't a backstop!


    Is that not like saying to the EU that we agree to this fundamental term but reserve the right to ignore it?


  • #7488
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Enzokk wrote: »
    That is most definitely a thread of thought from the UK, that the EU will always get a deal at the last minute. The only problem with this is that it needs to go through the various votes and confirmations in the EU as well so they could agree a deal on the 28th March but there is no way to get it through all the EU processes that it needs to pass. The deadline is not in March but sometime soon so the time for a new deal is now.


    Davies et al probably believes that the EU would throw in a quickie extension in order to get the t's crossed and the i's dotted.


  • #7489
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Is that not like saying to the EU that we agree to this fundamental term but reserve the right to ignore it?

    It's the UK continually negotiating with itself. "Sure who cares what the EU will say we'll make up our minds and tell em how it is!"


  • #7490
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Kate Hoey on Sky News flatly accusing the Irish government of using the backstop as a way of achieving a United Ireland.


  • #7491
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,774 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    briany wrote: »
    Kate Hoey on Sky News flatly accusing the Irish government of using the backstop as a way of achieving a United Ireland.

    I saw that, it is like we are Machiavellian in Ireland and we made them have their stupid referendum with her conspiracy being the end goal.
    Kate Hoey is intellectually challenged on the issue of NI, even if she was born there...


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  • #7492
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    briany wrote: »
    Kate Hoey on Sky News flatly accusing the Irish government of using the backstop as a way of achieving a United Ireland.

    I caught her earlier saying something along the lines that the clause in the withdrawal agreement means that NI and their customs union will be administered by Ireland.


  • #7493
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    briany wrote: »
    Kate Hoey on Sky News flatly accusing the Irish government of using the backstop as a way of achieving a United Ireland.

    I take anything Hoey says with a pinch of salt.


  • #7494
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    And now the moronic ideas are floating again. How about a backstop that isn't a backstop!

    And it pretty much means they want to renege on the Withdrawal Agreement that was just agreed with the EU. So if they add this, they'll essentially be voting on an agreement that's not the one agreed with the EU. It'll be pointless.


  • #7495
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    RobertKK wrote: »

    I saw that, it is like we are Machiavellian in Ireland and we made them have their stupid referendum with her conspiracy being the end goal.
    Kate Hoey is intellectually challenged on the issue of NI, even if she was born there...

    Owe we are far Machiavellian than that . First we secretly ran a bloody sectarian civil war ensuring the IRA never got too powerful so we could unleashed phase 2 the GFA. Now we let that simmer for about 20 years while using that time to force the UK media to print lies about the EU. Then we engineered the referendum ensuring leave won but not by too much and finally the coup de grâce we forced the UK to voluntarily sign up to the backstop !


  • #7496
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,627 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    What the DUP / Kate Hoey say from here to the end of this process is irrelevant. We know their position. So what. You've been outflanked. Unionism is irrelevant. They're now Hard Brexiters as they won't accept this deal (and the DUP probably wanted a Hard Brexit all along). Grand. I know where they are. Much more relevant and interesting discussion is to be had elsewhere.


  • #7497
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Most bizarre suggestion is that Labour could petition the Queen, asking her to sack May, and invite Corbyn to attempt to form a government! In fairness, it did happen in Australia.


  • #7498
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭storker


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    It reads like a Tory wet dream. It's as if it was written by Fox - which is quite possible. You know, the ordinary Joe Bloggs who votes for the likes of Mogg and Johnson deserves what he gets.

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
    - H. L. Mencken

    You'd think this had been penned with Brexit in mind...


  • #7499
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    Most bizarre suggestion is that Labour could petition the Queen, asking her to sack May, and invite Corbyn to attempt to form a government! In fairness, it did happen in Australia.

    That's not bizarre at all and is essentially what happened when it switched from Brown to Cameron/ Clegg. Brown was still in power for a while though, despite not having parliament behind him, until the coalition was sorted.


  • #7500
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭storker


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I hope this signals that the MPs are finally realising [snip] that the time for unicorns and having all the cake, selling it, eating it and getting all the individual ingredients back in the cupboard is over and they now have to make some actual choices based on actual reality.

    Brilliant - I can see myself plagiarising this. :)


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  • #7501
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    Is that not like saying to the EU that we agree to this fundamental term but reserve the right to ignore it?
    It's even more toothless than that.

    If the backstop comes into play, the UK parliament will be allowed to vote on whether they want to reject reality and substitute it with their own.


This discussion has been closed.
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