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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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    #2912
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    bk wrote: »
    As an aside, I'd definitely agree that the O route will need a completely different type of single decker. 2 or 3 doors like you see in mainland Europe and perhaps even bendy buses if they can fit them. Perhaps more standing space and less sitting space. The single door buses certainly wouldn't be suitable for this route.

    any reason they couldn't start the O route early next year? It doesn't involve changing any existing routes, if its a good idea in 2 years time, it's a good idea now.


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    #2913
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    loyatemu wrote: »
    any reason they couldn't start the O route early next year? It doesn't involve changing any existing routes, if its a good idea in 2 years time, it's a good idea now.

    Would the needed infrastructure be in place for it though.


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    #2914
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    For example 184 is not suitable in my opinion for single decker buses as it is quite a busy route at certain times of the day. I don't ever remember this route ever being operated by single deckers in the past either.

    The 184 was operated by the horrible little 'imp' minibuses until some time in the late '90s or early 2000s. Then they had single-deckers on it for a few years. Aside from the morning and evening rush during the school term, the Streetlites are more than adequate.


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    #2915
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    The 184 was operated by the horrible little 'imp' minibuses until some time in the late '90s or early 2000s. Then they had single-deckers on it for a few years. Aside from the morning and evening rush during the school term, the Streetlites are more than adequate.

    So was the 145.

    On the ticket machine data it could well be that drivers weren't hitting welfare pass button, kids getting on with bus eireann travel cards and believe me when I say many are traveling with these and haven't paid for the db or GA travel option.
    Other issues are welfare pass holders not scanning their cards, some deliberately breaking them so they don't read, leap card users not paying but pretend to scan and the many school kids that do this also and just pile on.

    There is so many things that can throw the data off somewhat.


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    #2916
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    The 184 was operated by the horrible little 'imp' minibuses until some time in the late '90s or early 2000s. Then they had single-deckers on it for a few years. Aside from the morning and evening rush during the school term, the Streetlites are more than adequate.

    Were they I knew they operated in Bray but didn't know they were on the 184 thought the old 145 and the old 146 used them. To be fair it could be said about a lot of Go-Ahead that most could be operated by single deckers outside peak hours.

    I am surprised none have been allocated to the 63 as of yet as that was a route DB used to allocate single deckers too. Although some it's peak time departures are busy enough so it may justify double deckers at peak times.


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    #2917
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Were they I knew they operated in Bray but didn't know they were on the 184 thought the old 145 and the old 146 used them. To be fair it could be said about a lot of Go-Ahead that most could be operated by single deckers outside peak hours.

    I am surprised none have been allocated to the 63 as of yet as that was a route DB used to allocate single deckers too. Although some it's peak time departures are busy enough so it may justify double deckers at peak times.



    Thing is if the luas goes down then single Decker's are as much use as a chocolate engine....

    When they had the single Decker's on for some duties it couldn't carry at all as it use to go to the city.
    The reason for this was they actually had no other bus to allocate so they just left the wv on it.

    The 123 had a frequent very fast service hence why they had the wv type on them and a huge number at that.... Well before they retired these they were beyond capacity and it was a big success as it has doubles now and still very frequently.


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    #2918
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Thing is if the luas goes down then single Decker's are as much use as a chocolate engine....

    When they had the single Decker's on for some duties it couldn't carry at all as it use to go to the city.
    The reason for this was they actually had no other bus to allocate so they just left the wv on it.

    The 123 had a frequent very fast service hence why they had the wv type on them and a huge number at that.... Well before they retired these they were beyond capacity and it was a big success as it has doubles now and still very frequently.

    Good point it is good as a Luas feeder bus. I remember there was a period around 2011 when most of the buses on it during the week were singles. The single deckers even at peak times that I was on still a managed to take all the passengers don't remember there being any particular capacity problems at least at the times I used it.

    They managed to carry all passengers seated and maybe one or two had to stand from time to time. It was a different story when the bus went all the way into the CC as it used to add extra capacity on to the N11 QBC along with the 46a, 145 and the 84.


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    #2919
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    The 123 had a frequent very fast service hence why they had the wv type on them and a huge number at that.... Well before they retired these they were beyond capacity and it was a big success as it has doubles now and still very frequently.

    The 123 was a disaster as a single decker, multiple buses use to pass absolutely full, no hope of getting on. It was what buses down in Cork city use to be like, useless.

    The fact that the route now has double deckers at 10 minute frequencies and are still full at peak times, shows how stupid it was to put single deckers on that route.


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    #2920
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    bk wrote: »
    The 123 was a disaster as a single decker, multiple buses use to pass absolutely full, no hope of getting on. It was what buses down in Cork city use to be like, useless.

    The fact that the route now has double deckers at 10 minute frequencies and are still full at peak times, shows how stupid it was to put single deckers on that route.

    When they were on 1st it wasn't as bad it was the same with the imp mercs that were much smaller.

    They ended up becoming so used it ended up killing off these types of buses as the routes became such a success.


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    #2921
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭john boye


    bk wrote: »
    The 123 was a disaster as a single decker, multiple buses use to pass absolutely full, no hope of getting on. It was what buses down in Cork city use to be like, useless.

    The fact that the route now has double deckers at 10 minute frequencies and are still full at peak times, shows how stupid it was to put single deckers on that route.


    It was far from a disaster, the imps helped revitalise the route and turned it into a massive success. The old 23/24 routes were dying on their arse before the imps came along.


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    #2922
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    soundman45 wrote: »
    Yeah i get all that. I know a fully loaded bus will do that but yhe previous poster said "his friend said" it scraped off the side of a building. Given that buildings are usually tall and double deck buses are usually tall☺ should this not have resulted in alot of damage.

    It was a single decker!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2923
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    devnull wrote: »
    The vehicle allocation is being based on passenger numbers, counted on ticket machine data from when the routes were operated by DB, from what I have heard in the past.

    If that is a case it should be quite hard to get it wrong, unless for some reason, there is a discrepancy between the ticket machine data and the number of passengers who are actually travelling,

    The free travel passes are a discrepancy. Old people, people with disabilities and companions of people with disabilities frequently wave their pass at the driver and he or she effectively doesnt register them. The drivers often wave them on. The Go Ahead drivers mostly dont know how to register companion passes.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2924
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Drivers have a button on the machine to log DSP passes


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    #2925
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Drivers have a button on the machine to log DSP passes

    That they do but many don't bother, same as they don't get them to scan their cards and also when they bring the wife/husband etc they just scan at the door so it doesn't register 2 travelling it will just show 1.


    Many many factors and then people who have not topped up or run on etc.

    This happens a lot.


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    #2926
    Here we go
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    Just on the 184 and 59,the 184 does run a double on peak times. And yes 59 would be better as an imp for the last round about alone lol but the single is to long so they only have the double which just about gets around


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    #2927
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Here we go wrote: »
    Just on the 184 and 59,the 184 does run a double on peak times. And yes 59 would be better as an imp for the last round about alone lol but the single is to long so they only have the double which just about gets around

    Double decker fits around no issue once driven correctly.

    The previous single decks fitted no issue and of course the 2 singles db have now fit not a bother.

    Db use to have 2 or 3 av type that the steering angle was brutal and they wouldn't go around in one turn.

    Only issue up there can be parking and when they put in the big belly rubbish bin which they eventually moved.


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    #2928
    Here we go
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Double decker fits around no issue once driven correctly.

    The previous single decks fitted no issue and of course the 2 singles db have now fit not a bother.

    Db use to have 2 or 3 av type that the steering angle was brutal and they wouldn't go around in one turn.

    Only issue up there can be parking and when they put in the big belly rubbish bin which they eventually moved.
    Yes the doubles do get around but as far as I know go ahead only have the 11.5 meter singles and thats why they use the double up there


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    #2929
    sharper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭sharper


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The free travel passes are a discrepancy. Old people, people with disabilities and companions of people with disabilities frequently wave their pass at the driver and he or she effectively doesnt register them. The drivers often wave them on. The Go Ahead drivers mostly dont know how to register companion passes.

    I don't know if it's something they do on every route but about once a year at peak times I've seen people in DB gear with clipboards getting on the bus and writing down the number of passengers.

    There's also people that tweet @dublinbusnews when they can't get on a free bus who are then directed to fill out a webform.

    If they were willing to talk to google there's probably a whole host of data there about which which routes people are using and what stops they got on and get off at. My android phone "knows" what bus I take and automatically pops up the timetable at the time I usually take it (along with alternatives) despite having never told it any of that.

    We might be short on the actual numbers of busses needed to meet capacity but they should never be more than slightly wrong in their estimation of how much they need.


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    #2930
    soundman45
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭soundman45


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The free travel passes are a discrepancy. Old people, people with disabilities and companions of people with disabilities frequently wave their pass at the driver and he or she effectively doesnt register them. The drivers often wave them on. The Go Ahead drivers mostly dont know how to register companion passes.

    Yes indeed pressing 2 buttons to register a companion with the pass holder would be beyond go ahead drivers. Surely cie employees could only manage that huge task.


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    #2931
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I still see some OAPs getting with the old paper passes they should be done away with look very easy to forge. Also why do some OAPs still show their PSC pass to the driver when they board and then scan it, I don't show my Leap card to driver every time I use the right hand validator.


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    #2932
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I still see some OAPs getting with the old paper passes they should be done away with look very easy to forge. Also why do some OAPs still show their PSC pass to the driver when they board and then scan it, I don't show my Leap card to driver every time I use the right hand validator.

    They don't understand how to use them usually.

    Habit from years and years of showing it can be hard to get away from the same thing each time.

    Many cards are blocked and many break them pH and then there are many elderly that just put the head down and walk right on never acknowledge the driver and many slip on as it's busy.


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    #2933
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    They don't understand how to use them usually.

    Habit from years and years of showing it can be hard to get away from the same thing each time.

    Many cards are blocked and many break them pH and then there are many elderly that just put the head down and walk right on never acknowledge the driver and many slip on as it's busy.

    Why are they breaking them purposely are they tin foil wearers who are afraid the gubernment may have data on them?


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    #2934
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Why are they breaking them purposely are they tin foil wearers who are afraid the gubernment may have data on them?

    Some break them on purpose as they have been blocked.

    Some break in pockets and the chip does pop out at the rear from just abuse.

    They are a very poor standard of card and the actual LEAP card is much more robust.

    What some do is break one and give it to their mate or other family member the one that works and then just say they scanned their leap card if checked.

    Loads are now using child leap cards also.

    The whole thing of over 1k buses and a team of 4 to check where they travel by car and only 3 actually check tickets, passes etc.

    What an absolute joke


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    #2935
    ax586
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭ax586


    soundman45 wrote: »
    Yes indeed pressing 2 buttons to register a companion with the pass holder would be beyond go ahead drivers. Surely cie employees could only manage that huge task.

    It’s easy all you do is press f8 and the ticket prints out simples


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    #2936
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Some break them on purpose as they have been blocked.

    Some break in pockets and the chip does pop out at the rear from just abuse.

    They are a very poor standard of card and the actual LEAP card is much more robust.

    What some do is break one and give it to their mate or other family member the one that works and then just say they scanned their leap card if checked.

    Loads are now using child leap cards also.

    The whole thing of over 1k buses and a team of 4 to check where they travel by car and only 3 actually check tickets, passes etc.

    What an absolute joke

    It should show up on our wayfarer machines if the pass is connected to a pensioner. And male or female. (Or what ever you young folk call it now.). That way we can throw young people off and confiscate the card when their granny or mammy send them into town or work with a card that is not theirs.

    One thing I do hate is benefit fraud.


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    #2937
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Drivers have a button on the machine to log DSP passes

    Yes.

    They obviously havent been trained in how to use the machines properly

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2938
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Yes.

    They obviously havent been trained in how to use the machines properly

    They have been; it just takes time to learn to use them properly when in service, dealing with road conditions, traffic, passengers, etc. Dublin Bus drivers will have experienced the same difficulties when they started. The difference is that Go-Ahead have lots of drivers starting out at the same time, so mistakes are inevitably more noticeable.
    dashcamdanny wrote:
    That way we can throw young people off and confiscate the card when their granny or mammy send them into town or work with a card that is not theirs.

    Revenue protection is not the driver's job.

    560.jpg


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    #2939
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    They have been; it just takes time to learn to use them properly when in service, dealing with road conditions, traffic, passengers, etc. Dublin Bus drivers will have experienced the same difficulties when they started. The difference is that Go-Ahead have lots of drivers starting out at the same time, so mistakes are inevitably more noticeable.



    Revenue protection is not the driver's job.

    560.jpg
    It is the drivers job to make sure everyone on the bus has a valid ticket to travel.
    The problem IMO. Is that to many drivers turn a blind eye If a driver thinks there is a person using someone else's card, he/she is entirely entitled to take it. And refuse entry. If in doubt. Turn the engine off, call the controller.
    I don't put up with it . Why should people pays 1000s per year while others cheat.


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    #2940
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    It is the drivers job to make sure everyone on the bus has a valid ticket to travel.
    The problem IMO. Is that to many drivers turn a blind eye If a driver thinks there is a person using someone else's card, he/she is entirely entitled to take it. And refuse entry. If in doubt. Turn the engine off, call the controller.
    I don't put up with it . Why should people pays 1000s per year while others cheat.

    But a Luas or a train driver isin't going care if someone dosen't pay their fare. At the end of the day DB or the NTA should be employing a larger number of ticket inspectors and not just relying on the goodness of drivers to make sure everyone pays the correct fare. By the sounds of things drivers making sure everybody pays the right fare just creates hassle for the driver.


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    #2941
    Here we go
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    It is the drivers job to make sure everyone on the bus has a valid ticket to travel.
    The problem IMO. Is that to many drivers turn a blind eye If a driver thinks there is a person using someone else's card, he/she is entirely entitled to take it. And refuse entry. If in doubt. Turn the engine off, call the controller.
    I don't put up with it . Why should people pays 1000s per year while others cheat.

    So it 20 people pay on your bus and one guy doesn't. You'd let the 20 paying customers all be late for work (maybe the 3/4th time that week and leads to them being fired) or missing a hospital appointment they waited 6 months for and have to go back on a waiting list.


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