Why Irish cities are tiny except for Dublin

Sciprio · 01-12-2018 02:09AM

Frunchy wrote: »

It's been ruined by urban sprawl and a refusal to build upwards.

The whole country has if you ask me. I'm sick of hearing "This will be an eyesore or spoil our view." In Cork currently we have a few of these going on and it sickens me. Behind the bus station, This link with all the adverts signs.Some people are objecting because of "the View" The place is a dump and it spoils nothing.

The location of the proprosed building
https://goo.gl/maps/pKhmcqKZrLT2

And what it would look like

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Prism-plan-is-defended-by-City-Halls-head-of-planning-e5f616d9-e33d-4430-9131-d674c0087f78-ds

Pretzeluck · 01-12-2018 07:37AM

Sciprio wrote: »

The whole country has if you ask me. I'm sick of hearing "This will be an eyesore or spoil our view." In Cork currently we have a few of these going on and it sickens me. Behind the bus station, This link with all the adverts signs.Some people are objecting because of "the View" The place is a dump and it spoils nothing.

The location of the proprosed building
https://goo.gl/maps/pKhmcqKZrLT2

And what it would look like

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Prism-plan-is-defended-by-City-Halls-head-of-planning-e5f616d9-e33d-4430-9131-d674c0087f78-ds

But ma viewwww! Nothing else matters

WillieMason · 01-12-2018 07:51AM

Its a competition like sports teams the best team isnt going to give away there players to rivals and make them stronger. The best team is going to sign the best players(google) scupper rivals bids for good players (apple in athenry) want all the praise and ruin rivals reputation(limerick stab city)centralise everything possible when number 1 so you closet rival will never come back (in 1891 cork county had number 1 population in ireland spot) in 1841 cork had double dublins population who was 5th with Galway holding second place.

Road-Hog · 01-12-2018 08:37AM

Is everyone forgetting about Derry. Think it comes in at no 4. I know it’s part of the ‘teddy bears head’ but it is a city with a significant population for an urban area on this island

Sciprio · 01-12-2018 09:52AM

I'd actually like to see Donegal get more funding, and i say that as a cork man. It seems forgtotten about.

md23040 · 01-12-2018 10:21AM

How come Northern Ireland (with a small population of 1.7m) has twice the population density compared to the Republic, and a more even population distribution of Belfast to Derry, Lisburn, Bangor, Craigavon, Newry etc?

mikhail · 01-12-2018 11:13AM

md23040 wrote: »

How come Northern Ireland (with a small population of 1.7m) has twice the population density compared to the Republic, and a more even population distribution of Belfast to Derry, Lisburn, Bangor, Craigavon, Newry etc?

Subsidies. The UK sinks 16 billion a year into the place - 2/3rds of people with jobs in the north work for the government somehow. Our lot had to actually work for a living, even if that meant emigrating to Dublin/UK/US/etc.

super_furry · 01-12-2018 12:30PM

It's cos Cork is crap and everyone there sounds like a broken squeaky dog toy.

lisasimpson · 01-12-2018 12:33PM

There are efforts in Cork in fairness to increase the populatiom of the city. They have a large brown field site with the docklands development. However An Teisce (sp?) seem to object to everything for fun down there. The Prisim is the latest with them. Its a site that its hard to do much with in a prime city centre location that has been idle for up to 40 years and someone has plans to develop it but held up with an objection

igCorcaigh · 01-12-2018 12:45PM

It's a good thing.
Dublin is seeing the downside of badly planned growth.

I'd like to see other regional centres grow in size, but our towns and cities are badly poised for growth. Just look at the traffic problems in Galway...

md23040 · 01-12-2018 12:48PM

mikhail wrote: »

Subsidies. The UK sinks 16 billion a year into the place - 2/3rds of people with jobs in the north work for the government somehow. Our lot had to actually work for a living, even if that meant emigrating to Dublin/UK/US/etc.

Subsidies. The UK sinks 16 billion a year into the place - 2/3rds of people with jobs in the north work for the government somehow. Our lot had to actually work for a living, even if that meant emigrating to Dublin/UK/US/etc.

That cannot possibly explain the level of inconsistency. Northern Ireland has had been known for many years of high unemployment, low income, dreadful sectarianism in the 1950’s and 1960’s with many Catholics leaving, followed by 30 years of civil war in which many of its youth from both religions moving mainly to the UK etc.

It is only in the last 15 years with the peace process that has there been any sort of thin prosperity and the level overall is not comparable to the Republic.

Look at the disparity in county distribution and density.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population

And to debunk the famine argument this affected the whole island.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34369080

Government subsidised jobs cannot explain this anomaly or the city size distribution. Cork and Galway should be proportionate to Dublin in population distribution same as Birmingham and Manchester to London IMO.

The country is massively underpopulated and this is the main issue with tax distribution and trying to provide medical, road provisions etc, to many under populated areas. Compared to the EU generally the city/town population distribution in Ireland is an oddity.

conorhal · 01-12-2018 12:50PM

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Dublin urban population 1.17mil
Cork urban population: 200k

If you look at any other country, you will see that the capital and top 5 cities do not have such a massive gap in size and population. For example let's take Netherlands

Amsterdam, Netherlands. 1.3mil
Rotterdam, Netherlands 1mil
The Hague, Netherlands 657k

Netherlands has a larger population but even their capital has less people than Dublin and if we compare populations is 4.4mil vs 17mil.
Is this the result of poor management making Ireland a city-state?

The cities you cite there have been major commercial centers and strategic commercial ports and trade hubs for hundreds of years. As such their growth is unsurprising. Waterford and even Cork are too remote and haven't been trading hubs for a very long time.
The reality is that Dublin is the only strategic commercial hub in the country due to it's location and port.
With the growth of the services industry our other secondary commercial centers are growing, but have a lot of catching up to do with cities that have served that function for centuries because of their location and the fact that much of the merchant classes located there.

snotboogie · 01-12-2018 01:02PM

holyhead wrote: »

Interestingly enough if you fly from west to east the country gets richer. Dublin is, relatively speaking, a huge urban centre to which people gravitate due to work opportunities, leisure possibilities and education. Dublin historically has always had a much larger traditional urban area relative to other centres in the country. Does anyone feel the proximity of Dublin to the UK is a factor? Before some smartarse mentions Dundalk I mean England!

I have no idea why this lie gets trotted out so often. Outside of the M50 there is nothing economically interesting about the rest of Leinster, aside from the ridiculous commuting patterns. Tipperary has more people employed in county than Louth:

https://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=bra08_4

gozunda · 01-12-2018 01:18PM

mick malones mauser wrote: »

Its just because Dublin is great AND all the Culchies want to live here.
The Vikings knew what they were at when they settled here. Mountains cradling it protecting it,Sea there for a quick escape route to Britain if the Culchies become too much to bear.(Coppers on a Friday night, Offaly Gaa tops moaning about Dem Dubs and what an awful place they find themselves in etc)
Even recent storms etc, the West and South of Ireland wiped out, thousands dead, electricity and water supplies cut off for months.....Dublin, Sky Box fluttered for a few minutes and I missed the start of the match.
Simple really

Dubhlinn was a boggy black pool beside a dank river around the time the Vikings set up shop for a bit of rape and pillaging.

Then the Normans and the English took over and continued to rob the adjacent natives blind. The settlement was from then on inhabited by these "Little English" aka " Jackeens"

Then de Dubs (de jackeens) built a wall to keep themselves inside de 'Pale' - unfortunately it didn't work and they ended up over running the rest of the country and telling everyone what they should do. Something they are still at strangely enough.

After a while the rich decided they had enough and decamped - leaving the lovely slums to house the tens of thousands of piss poor dubs who pawned their clothes when they wernt wearing them. Something which is evident in many of the nightclubs such as Lillie's Bordello to this day

Strangely bad weather only happens in Dublin according to News as reported by RTE based in Montrose. The rest of the country could be 20 feet under snow and it wouldn't get as much as a mention. Good news is that these culturally diverse inhabitants have recently started to become a bit more proficient in Stick-ball and other real sports.

revelman · 01-12-2018 01:22PM

conorhal wrote: »

The cities you cite there have been major commercial centers and strategic commercial ports and trade hubs for hundreds of years. As such their growth is unsurprising. Waterford and even Cork are too remote and haven't been trading hubs for a very long time.
The reality is that Dublin is the only strategic commercial hub in the country due to it's location and port.
With the growth of the services industry our other secondary commercial centers are growing, but have a lot of catching up to do with cities that have served that function for centuries because of their location and the fact that much of the merchant classes located there.

There is so much generalisation going on in these threads! Cork is 'too remote'? By what standard? As in distance from Dublin? Cork is geographically closer (as the crow flies) to Paris than Dublin is. The port of Cork is the world's second largest natural harbour and 10.3 million tonnes of imports and exports passed through it last year. The figure for Dublin port was 28.4 million. I would very much call Cork a trading hub.

A significant number of global pharmaceutical companies are based in Cork, engaged in production.

Also metropolitan Cork has a population of 400,000. I'd hardly call that tiny. Tiny, perhaps, by Chinese standards but would small to medium sized not be better description in a European context?

You can probably tell from the above that I'm a proud Corkonian!

Frunchy · 01-12-2018 01:31PM

The arrogance of Dubliners is staggering, and they wonder why the rest of the country dislikes them......

nim1bdeh38l2cw · 01-12-2018 01:37PM

Pretzeluck wrote: »

If you look at any other country, you will see that the capital and top 5 cities do not have such a massive gap in size and population.

Canberra 410,301
Sydney 5,131,326

Sometimes, it's better to say nothing if it's going to make you look like an idiot

markodaly · 01-12-2018 01:37PM

md23040 wrote: »

.

The country is massively underpopulated and this is the main issue with tax distribution and trying to provide medical, road provisions etc, to many under populated areas. Compared to the EU generally the city/town population distribution in Ireland is an oddity.

The bigger issue really is that we still have planning laws that makes it too easy for people to build one off housing in the arse end of nowhere, where the provisioning of services is more expensive and difficult.

As mentioned, we never went through an industrialisation process, and really its been only in the past 15-20 years that we have had any type of urbanisation at all in this country. We need bigger towns and cities, not more people.

Silentcorner · 01-12-2018 01:42PM

The fact that our state is one of the most centralised in Europe (including ex Soviet States) is a huge factor in our collective failure to grow our regional cities...it is also a leading cause of the massive waves of emigration since the foundation of this state.

When you consider all the major banks/media outlets/major government departments are all based in one city which itself suffers from a fairly deep wealth divide, you can see how toxic/flawed group think is a real problem for this entire state!

KilOit · 01-12-2018 01:47PM

Frunchy wrote: »

The arrogance of Dubliners is staggering, and they wonder why the rest of the country dislikes them......

Who cares what the peasants outside Dublin think, they all secretly love to live here

Turbohymac · 01-12-2018 01:48PM

China would be tops for large population..but even take german cities like Berlin and Munich..they would make Dublin look like a village...bottom line we just keep forgetting were simply a large island and this will be far more evident after Brexit with France. Belgium and the Netherlands being our nearest European neighbors..

Frunchy · 01-12-2018 01:48PM

KilOit wrote: »

Who cares what the peasants outside Dublin think, they all secretly love to live here

Yes, I'm sure they love their box rooms and commuting 2 hours a day.

Church on Tuesday · 01-12-2018 02:14PM

DS86DS wrote: »

We never had an industrial revolution. The pre-industrial populations of all urban areas bar a few like Paris, London and Beijing were tiny.

Even New York at the time of the American Revolution only had a population of about 20,000

You can factor in the Famine too.

mikhail · 01-12-2018 02:48PM

gozunda wrote: »

Dubhlinn was a boggy black pool beside a dank river around the time the Vikings set up shop for a bit of rape and pillaging.

Then the Normans and the English took over and continued to rob the adjacent natives blind. The settlement was from then on inhabited by these "Little English" aka " Jackeens"

Then de Dubs (de jackeens) built a wall to keep themselves inside de 'Pale' - unfortunately it didn't work and they ended up over running the rest of the country and telling everyone what that should do. Something they are still at strangely enough.

After a while the rich decided they had enough and decamped - leaving the lovely slums to house the tens of thousands of piss poor dubs who pawned their clothes when they wernt wearing them. Something which is evident in many of the nightclubs such as Lillie's Bordello to this day

Strangely bad weather only happens in Dublin according to News as reported by RTE based in Montrose. The rest of the country could be 20 feet under snow and it wouldn't get as much as a mention. Good news is that these culturally diverse inhabitants have recently stated to become a bit more proficient in Stick-ball and other real sports.

Aw, diddums.

gozunda · 01-12-2018 02:54PM

mikhail wrote: »

Aw, diddums.

lol. Touched a nerve there

j8wk2feszrnpao · 01-12-2018 02:55PM

KilOit wrote: »

Who cares what the peasants outside Dublin think, they all secretly love to live here

In the Pale? No thanks. I'll move to a real city like London if that's what I wanted

mikhail · 01-12-2018 02:57PM

gozunda wrote: »

lol. Touched a nerve there

Only one of us went on a big stupid rant. The only surprising thing about it was how well spelt it was.

gozunda · 01-12-2018 03:03PM

mikhail wrote: »

Only one of us went on a big stupid rant. The only surprising thing about it was how well spelt it was.

You mean the post I replied to in the same vein lol?
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057934098/1/#post108766274

Sorry if a light look at history doesn't suit the narrative :pac:

The Rape of Lucretia · 01-12-2018 03:07PM

revelman wrote: »

There is so much generalisation going on in these threads!

The port of Cork is the world's second largest natural harbour

This seems to be one Cork delusion that has got out of control and now some people take it as a fact. It doesnt make the top ten.
Too much generalisation.

B0jangles · 01-12-2018 03:10PM

Are they not tiny because they are populated entirely by leprechauns? - you know, like hobbit towns are all made up of dinky little cottages and holes in the ground.

That's what my grandpa always told me.

Why Irish cities are tiny except for Dublin

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