Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

UsedToWait · 30-11-2018 05:58PM

^It is true that some posters have expressed a wish that could be summarised:
'If yiz are going to jump, bloody get on with it,' and perhaps a bit of schadenfreude which our friend seems not to realise is common amongst colonised / previously colonised people when their oppressor runs into a bit of bother.

It certainly hasn't been excessive, imo - most debate in here is backed up with rational arguments.
More than can be said of the level of debate we have seen from across the water.

Alun · 30-11-2018 06:22PM

robinph wrote: »

Maybe those potential British posters, who by definition of knowing about boards are probably more pro EU than the rest of the UK population, are just sitting around with their heads in the hands dispairing of what is going on around them.

Speaking as an actual Brit, living here for the last 17 years, I despair of the situation in my home country too. Mind you, I've felt that way for a long time now, almost as far back as 1980 when I left to move to the Netherlands. Every time I went back to visit I felt a little less "at home" and now I couldn't move back there for love or money. It's just sad really.

First Up · 30-11-2018 06:40PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote: »

No parliament can enact laws that bind a subsequent parliament.

Awh I understand now. Thinly veiled we are going to be stabbed in the back again.

Stabbed in the back by who?

Frank Bullitt · 30-11-2018 06:49PM

I'm in the midst of listening to Question Time (I'm living in Canada).

I lose more and more sympathy for Britain with each round of applause that they lies get.

Infini · 30-11-2018 06:53PM

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1014374/

Tusk basically laying down the cold hard reality: Reject the agreement and the only options are Remain or Crash Out for the UK.

Capt'n Midnight · 30-11-2018 07:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is very close to being a rogue state the way it is going, leaderless and rudderless. It has lost it's it's way and doesn't seem to have a leader to lead.

And in the background there's a steady encroachment on privacy.

The Human Rights Watch and the Electronic Frontier Foundation have requested the US Department of Justice, to quit sharing data with a certain human rights-violating surveillance regime.

I liked this comment
..if the US(!!) has concerns about this what are the chances that we will get a data adequacy agreement with the EU post-Brexit?

Also it's failing to ensure proper oversight of its mass surveillance programmes, according to the European Court of Human Rights.

Stuff like the Snooper's Charter won't help future UK-EU data transfers.

Strazdas · 30-11-2018 07:05PM

Alun wrote: »

Speaking as an actual Brit, living here for the last 17 years, I despair of the situation in my home country too. Mind you, I've felt that way for a long time now, almost as far back as 1980 when I left to move to the Netherlands. Every time I went back to visit I felt a little less "at home" and now I couldn't move back there for love or money. It's just sad really.

For what it's worth, I think the whole Brexit phenomenon may be on borrowed time. British Euroscepticism has had a virtual free ride for the last 20 years, but as a result of bringing everything to a head in 2016, for the first time ever they are under intense scrutiny and having to fight off serious criticism.

The next five years will be fascinating for Britain. The free ride they and their many supporters in the press got is over and we're into whole new territory.

Water John · 30-11-2018 07:10PM

But the EU are also saying that if the fundamentals of what UK is looking for altered, either CU or part SM it would be different. Accept that the present discussions are concluded. This is the most EU will get from the EU with UK's present stance.

BonnieSituation · 30-11-2018 07:18PM

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Should have come out and said this sooner instead of allowing it to fester for so long.

Why did he have to say it at all?

Strazdas · 30-11-2018 07:21PM

Water John wrote: »

But the EU are also saying that if the fundamentals of what UK is looking for altered, either CU or part SM it would be different. Accept that the present discussions are concluded. This is the most EU will get from the EU with UK's present stance.

Yes indeed, people are missing the point that the EU are saying that if the Tories try to water down the WA, they are wasting their time.

But if the UK came back to them and said it wanted to rip up the customs union agreement and instead be a full member of the Single Market, that would be an entirely different matter.

Seth Brundle · 30-11-2018 07:31PM

irishash wrote: »

May has ruled out having another referendum, saying the same as a lot of other tories - Undemocratic, will of the people, brexit means brexit........yada, yada, yada.

But when it comes to the vote on the WA by the house of commons, wont rule out a second vote - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46394431

Just another example of why they don't care a bit about democracy and only about their own agendas.

In fairness to her, she is yet to have her agreement accepted or rejected by parliament so why would she suddenly look for another referendum?

RobMc59 · 30-11-2018 07:34PM

listermint wrote: »

Which ones are those specifically?

Can you point them out?

Ive lived abroad and travelled to over 60 Countries. So what specifically are my prejudices? detail them.

Or is this you continuing in the theme of the 'poor us' 'treat us with more respect' theme that you feel you are not getting on the thread.

Ive read your posts and ive read the responses to them. The notion that there isnt Balance on this thread is in a nutshell Rubbish!.

And its you that continues the theme that is not balanced with zero to back it up. I dont know why you do it buy you do, daily.

Posters have said they can`t get past the 800 years of abuse and occupation at the hands of the British,fair enough, that is understandable.
Your outraged themed reply of-"how dare you!" to my earlier post leads me to believe you can`t get over what has happened in the past but just won`t admit it.
As far as me having a`poor us` or `treat us with more respect`attitude -utter waffle.In the many happy times I`ve spent in Ireland with friends and family I have unfortunately encountered people who have a problem with me purely because I`m British-even been pulled up by an "unofficial checkpoint" on the back roads of Dundalk because I`m British-It has`nt stopped me going to visit friends and family. .If the moderators say I should`nt post on here because I`m abusive or offensive,fair enough-but you won`t stop me just because you think only Irish people should post.

Zubeneschamali · 30-11-2018 08:02PM

Infini wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1014374/

Tusk basically laying down the cold hard reality: Reject the agreement and the only options are Remain or Crash Out for the UK.

He would say that.

I think that the WA is set, but the Political Declaration is just waffle, and the future relationship could be nearly anything from North Korea to Norway++.

Tell me how · 30-11-2018 08:44PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He would say that.

I think that the WA is set, but the Political Declaration is just waffle, and the future relationship could be nearly anything from North Korea to Norway++.

Obviously this is a holding pattern for the moment as the ball is in the UK hands.

Won't stop them saying they expect the EU to come up with alternatives mind.

Infini · 30-11-2018 09:09PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He would say that.

I think that the WA is set, but the Political Declaration is just waffle, and the future relationship could be nearly anything from North Korea to Norway++.

Honestly he's saying that probably because this is the true endgame. Thats all that you can negotiate so either accept it, end this brexit farce or crash out at your own folly. The other reason he might be saying this is because at this point it if they cant make up their minds no deal becomes default and the true damage controls begin as they prepare for this.

Zubeneschamali · 30-11-2018 09:16PM

Infini wrote: »

Honestly he's saying that probably because this is the true endgame. Thats all that you can negotiate so either accept it, end this brexit farce or crash out at your own folly.

Eh, no, nobody believes that, not even him.

No Deal Brexit is bad for the EU, so of course they will do what it takes to avoid it.

Norway and Sweden have been in "temporary" deals for more than 20 years, no reason Brexit shouldn't drag on at least that long, or become a similar half-way permanent state.

LeinsterDub · 30-11-2018 09:37PM

First Up wrote: »

Stabbed in the back by who?

Judeboy is expecting the EU to stab us in the back any minute now.

A Dub in Glasgo · 30-11-2018 09:42PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Judeboy is expecting the EU to stab us in the back any minute now.

It has been any minute now for quite a few months :pac:

wolf boy the cried who

LeinsterDub · 30-11-2018 09:47PM

https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1068533485470736384

This MP some how thinks the UK are going to get a better deal than the SM and the CU while being outside the EU.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to get so blindly drunk I'll forget this level of stupid for fear if I remember it, it would infect my mind. Rotting it from the inside out

Strazdas · 30-11-2018 10:11PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1068533485470736384

This MP some how thinks the UK are going to get a better deal than the SM and the CU while being outside the EU.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to get so blindly drunk I'll forget this level of stupid for fear if I remember it, it would infect my mind. Rotting it from the inside out

Problem is there is no obligation on the EU to sign a trade deal with the UK at all. They might be perfectly happy to carry on with the customs union arrangement for years.

Not sure Barclay fully understands how trade deals work. For one to be signed, both sides have to actively want a trade deal and think it is a good idea. If one side wants one and the other doesn't, then there is no trade deal.

tuxy · 30-11-2018 10:14PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Not sure Barclay fully understands how trade deals work. For one to be signed, both sides have to actively want a trade deal and think it is a good idea. If one side wants one and the other doesn't, then there is no trade deal.

So things have changed since the days of the opium wars?

Zubeneschamali · 30-11-2018 10:18PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Problem is there is no obligation on the EU to sign a trade deal with the UK at all. They might be perfectly happy to carry on with the customs union arrangement for years.

Forever!

The whole "Norway" deal they talk about, as if it is an off-the-shelf thing, is a "temporary" arrangement where Norway stalled during the process of joining the EU.

The UK could very easily end up in some "stalled" status on their way out.

LeinsterDub · 30-11-2018 10:30PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Problem is there is no obligation on the EU to sign a trade deal with the UK at all.

That isn't the problem. The problem is it's impossible what is a better trade deal than the SM and the CU? Do they expect the EU to pay them for trade?

irishash · 30-11-2018 10:32PM

funkey_monkey wrote: »

No she hasn't depending on your source and their interpretation:

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1014374/

The interview she gave to BBC is clearly talking about a second vote in the commons, not a re-run of the referendum. She has always said a second referendum was off the cards.

From https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1129/1014077-brexit/

"British Prime Minister Theresa May has pushed back against calls for a second Brexit referendum, warning it would mean unpicking the deal agreed with Brussels.

Appearing before senior MPs, Mrs May refused to be drawn on what would happen if the Commons votes down the Withdrawal Agreement in the crunch vote on 11 December.

However, she insisted a so-called "people's vote" was not an option as it could not be held before 29 March 2019 when Britain leaves the EU."

Also this from October - https://www.thejournal.ie/theresa-may-brexit-speech-3-4265546-Oct2018/

An Ciarraioch · 30-11-2018 10:48PM

Interestingly, one Leaver claims EFTA members have been able to eliminate customs barriers since last year, though if Turkey also have this right, their border remains notoriously gridlocked:

http://twitter.com/PeteNorth303/status/1067152681310015489

listermint · 30-11-2018 11:36PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Posters have said they can`t get past the 800 years of abuse and occupation at the hands of the British,fair enough, that is understandable.
Your outraged themed reply of-"how dare you!" to my earlier post leads me to believe you can`t get over what has happened in the past but just won`t admit it.
As far as me having a`poor us` or `treat us with more respect`attitude -utter waffle.In the many happy times I`ve spent in Ireland with friends and family I have unfortunately encountered people who have a problem with me purely because I`m British-even been pulled up by an "unofficial checkpoint" on the back roads of Dundalk because I`m British-It has`nt stopped me going to visit friends and family. .If the moderators say I should`nt post on here because I`m abusive or offensive,fair enough-but you won`t stop me just because you think only Irish people should post.

Ah there you are again with the poor me approach

You read something into a post that didn't exist. Your inferring something I never said. You are now claiming I said you should not post here because your not Irish

Will you give over it's tiring. Your making a show of yourself with zero facts. No one has it out for your or the UK, you are being called up on the baseless claims you are making, nothing more.

Something that should have happened two years ago with Boris and farage and perhaps we wouldn't have this mess.

People need to start being called up on the lies , yourself included.

And continue to post here but will you at least make it factual and enough with the oppressed others guff it's not washing .

foxyladyxx · 30-11-2018 11:41PM

listermint wrote: »

Ah there you are again with the poor me approach

You read something into a post that didn't exist. Your inferring something I never said. You are now claiming I said you should not post here because your not Irish

Will you give over it's tiring. Your making a show of yourself with zero facts. No one has it out for your or the UK, you are being called up on the baseless claims you are making, nothing more.

Something that should have happened two years ago with Boris and farage and perhaps we wouldn't have this mess.

People need to start being called up on the lies , yourself included.

And continue to post here but will you at least make it factual and enough with the oppressed others guff it's not washing .

Leave it go ..Don't spoil the thread

listermint · 30-11-2018 11:42PM

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Leave it go ..Don't spoil the thread

Excuse me. I won't allow a poster put words in my mouth and make me out to be an anglophobe . And stop moderating the thread.

Thanks .

An Ciarraioch · 30-11-2018 11:50PM

Gove now backing the Norway option:

http://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1068619217698734080

sink · 30-11-2018 11:51PM

Great video by Stephen Fry. Pitty it wasn't released 2 1/2 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYonSZ8s3_o

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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