Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Chips Lovell · 14-11-2018 01:27PM

Grassey wrote: »

Did you see the ****e button lights they were previously handing out as part of a campaign to cyclists, that had a tiny LED that wasn't visible past about a foot?

If that's not trying to promote cycling in the dark I don't know what is.

This to me is one of the points where the RSA crossed the line from being ineffective to being downright dangerous.

If you're handing out crappy lights, inexperienced cyclists could be excused for believing that if the RSA are endorsing them, then they are adequate, either on their own or in combination with high viz.

The reality is that neither are any substitution for proper lights.

CramCycle · 14-11-2018 03:30PM

Funnily enough, I got great examples of the issues with DRLs and Hi Vis last night, when a security van overtook me in Shankill. So no rear lights (DRLs :rolleyes:) but lots of bright yellow and red reflective stripes. I can see the car perfectly fine, it is only a few metres away from me. I though if I got caught in traffic I might point it out to him, as I am of the opinion, that if rear ended they may be accused of contributory negligence. Anyway, as they drive away, I realise there is not enough traffic, so it will be Bray town before I see them again. Interestingly, about 150m up the road, I realise I can see the car in front of them but I actually cannot see them. They haven't turned off, I eventually make them out when they tap their brakes but, while not impossible to see, their visibility was greatly reduced due to the lack of lights, the hi vis wrap made no difference as the peripheral light obviously didn't directly shine back at me or interference hid it.

I noticed the same earlier on the N11 with cyclists, in all scenarios, anyone with lights was visible from a few 100m away, anyone without, while not invisible, was only truly recognisable as a person/cyclist once they were between 100 and 50m away. Most you could not tell what colour they were wearing until that close either.

None of them were in danger from me but a car breaking the speed limit and not paying attention may not see them in time. Undoubtedly, thanks to the RSA, the fault would lie at their feet entirely as they didn't have Hi Vis on, or if they did, something else would be blamed. Not excusing their behaviour, they are wrong, but it somehow might excuse the behaviour of others which to me is shocking.

what_traffic · 14-11-2018 05:01PM

Grassey wrote: »

Did you see the ****e button lights they were previously handing out as part of a campaign to cyclists, that had a tiny LED that wasn't visible past about a foot?
If that's not trying to promote cycling in the dark I don't know what is.

+1 on this.
Surprised they are still throwing these out. I suppose they are very very cheap.
Returned a batch of these LED's to RSA asking for legal clarification on them aboug two years ago.
Told they were supplementary to bicycle lights - then asked for the RSA standards/guidelines on bicycle lights, they had nothing on this.

buffalo · 14-11-2018 05:51PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1114/1010923-be-safe-be-seen-midlands/

...circulate 40,0000 stickers and high-viz vests to primary school children in Laois, Offaly and Westmeath.

The campaign is in response to the fact that 35% of all childhood deaths in Ireland are due to road traffic accidents and half of these are pedestrians.

How do we fix this issue of drivers killing people... Speed cameras? Traffic calming measures? Random checkpoints to catch mobile phone users? No, we'll use stickers!

14-11-2018 08:00PM

No amount of hi-vis is going to improve the **** show that is out side my girls school at 2 o clock each day. All it would take is will on the part of the school and the co-operation of the Gardai issue warnings day one then tickets day 2 then problem solved. Not a sticker and a vest.

I remember being asked on multiple occasions when waiting did I not think it dangerous cycling on the road with her on the back , yeah as soon as I get to the school :rolleyes:

EDIT: She arrived home with one the other day and I was in the middle of a long angry email when I thought better of it. I'll put a calm and coherent one together later.

CramCycle · 15-11-2018 12:01PM

Incredible from either the Journalist or the Gardai themselves. The way it is phrased for half of that 35%, makes it sound like they were at fault. As in 17.5% of young pedestrians and cyclists involved in RTAs are the sole contributors to the accident.

magicbastarder · 15-11-2018 12:01PM

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1063015050225635328

CramCycle · 15-11-2018 12:05PM

A load of school kids, maybe 6th class, a group of around 30 in my local town out jogging, in the evening time. You know its a school thing as they are all wearing Hi Vis, even though the sodium lighting meant it made no difference. But for all the attempts at safety from the organisers, at a light controlled junction, they herded them between moving cars. Now don't get me wrong, it is a terribly designed and controlled junction but the lack of realisation that they were causing the danger rather than preventing it was mind blowing. I kept my mouth shut as I would have been met with ridicule to point out the stupidity of their actions.

Macy0161 · 15-11-2018 12:53PM

Weepsie wrote: »

Those lights are suitable only to be worn on dogs' collars when walking them in the winter.

Whilst I would class them as secondary lights in the dark, if they're the same I picked up a couple of years ago, they're miles better than the ones the RSA/ Gardai gave out last time I got any.

CramCycle · 15-11-2018 12:56PM

Macy0161 wrote: »

Whilst I would class them as secondary lights in the dark, if they're the same I picked up a couple of years ago, they're miles better than the ones the RSA/ Gardai gave out last time I got any.

I had similar ones a few years ago. Miles better than the RSA ones, you can definitely see them from a distance and there is at least some light projected as well. At least they meet the visibility requirement and are good enough that not seeing them is an excuse.

Macy0161 · 15-11-2018 12:56PM

Weepsie wrote: »

Fair enough. And a scroll through that twitter account is heartening. They have started a convoy of adults and kids to get them to school by bike.

Yeah, I've seen that. For the times they'll be using them, they'll probably be ok. And really, if it implants the importance of lights to the children is really the main thing.

Hurrache · 15-11-2018 01:14PM

Weepsie wrote: »

Fair enough. And a scroll through that twitter account is heartening. They have started a convoy of adults and kids to get them to school by bike.

Yeah, they've been at it a while. First one or two times they've had gardai on bikes with them, but it all seems to be going well ever since. I think they've only missed one day and that was due to weather.

Chips Lovell · 15-11-2018 01:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember being asked on multiple occasions when waiting did I not think it dangerous cycling on the road with her on the back , yeah as soon as I get to the school :rolleyes:

My standard response to this kind of hand-wringing is: "I wouldn't be doing it if I thought it was dangerous".

15-11-2018 02:19PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Yeah, they've been at it a while. First one or two times they've had gardai on bikes with them, but it all seems to be going well ever since. I think they've only missed one day and that was due to weather.

It's a fantastic initiative, fair play to those involved. Hopefully it'll inspire others.

Something like that has the potential for "nag factor" in a positive way where kids see this and feel they are missing out and want to be involved and maybe dragging along more parents who might also need some physical activity. I'd say people who drive that route everyday would be well aware of them by now and give them the space they need baring the odd numpty.

Boards.ie: Mark · 15-11-2018 06:25PM

Testing

what_traffic · 16-11-2018 07:05PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Yeah, they've been at it a while. First one or two times they've had gardai on bikes with them, but it all seems to be going well ever since. I think they've only missed one day and that was due to weather.

True - was a Met Eireann Orange Weather Warning on that day.

magicbastarder · 28-11-2018 10:03AM

have spotted two different people using electric scooters for their commute on griffith avenue recently.
interestingly, on one of them - for a battery powered vehicle - the rear light is utterly pitiful. an old school fairy light on a christmas tree would be brighter.

anyway, reason i'm posting in this thread is that it was interesting to note how much harder the 'pilot' (rider?) was to see when they're not actually moving on the vehicle, and it didn't help that this particular chap was dressed in black clothes either. he was essentially just standing still on a moving board so you didn't even have leg movement to act as a visual hook for your eyes.

griffith avenue can be a little dark in the mornings too.

check_six · 28-11-2018 12:15PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

have spotted two different people using electric scooters for their commute on griffith avenue recently.
interestingly, on one of them - for a battery powered vehicle - the rear light is utterly pitiful. an old school fairy light on a christmas tree would be brighter.

Saw a dude recently on some kind of electric motorised machine in Sandymount. I think it was like a single wheel affair where you leaned forward to go and leaned back to slow. No handle or anything like that, just a stand on thingy like a skateboard. Two interesting things about it were that the rear light was a strip of high intensity red which, I think, reacted when the device slowed, and that it went like the clappers. I was heading for 40kmh by the time I was able to catch and overtake it. The light was noticeably great (and the acceleration seemed very strong too!).

rubadub · 28-11-2018 12:20PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyway, reason i'm posting in this thread is that it was interesting to note how much harder the 'pilot' (rider?) was to see when they're not actually moving on the vehicle,

I was posting about this a few months back. I no longer see my guy about.

rubadub wrote: »

Last week nearly ran head on into a guy on a weird electric scooter going the wrong way down a cycletrack.

I have seen him a lot, more often than not going the wrong way yet he totally stands his ground, staying dead central on the track at full speed, as though he is in the right to be going the direction he is (let alone the legality of the scooter), and expecting others to get out of his way.

As you see no head or leg movement at all it is all the more surprising, as you see a guy in the distance who looks like he is walking, but he is actually pissing along. It must be much more powerful than the other scooters you see.

Looks something like this, guy looks spanish or brazilian.

magicbastarder · 28-11-2018 06:06PM

what is it with those proviz jackets? i've seen three people recently (though to be fair, could be the same guy three times) who has invested nearly a ton in a reflective jacket and seems to think it absolves him of the need for lights.

eeeee · 28-11-2018 07:20PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

what is it with those proviz jackets? i've seen three people recently (though to be fair, could be the same guy three times) who has invested nearly a ton in a reflective jacket and seems to think it absolves him of the need for lights.

Saw 4 of them today. 1 with lights. So strange.

tomasrojo · 28-11-2018 09:38PM

check_six wrote: »

Saw a dude recently on some kind of electric motorised machine in Sandymount. I think it was like a single wheel affair where you leaned forward to go and leaned back to slow.

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1061016232441405441

tomasrojo · 28-11-2018 09:39PM

nee wrote: »

Saw 4 of them today. 1 with lights. So strange.

I'm seeing a lot of them these nights in the Bleeding Horse/Grand Canal area. I must check to see how many have no lights.

CramCycle · 28-11-2018 09:59PM

There are about 5 on my commute, lights are on 80% but only half again are satisfactory by my standards.

Macy0161 · 29-11-2018 09:23AM

Are you sure it's a proviz jacket? You can get fully reflective jackets for about €15 on Ali!

I have one (and lights obviously, hoping I passed the Cram test

), but I didn't pay near a 100. My usual "medium" is an XS in their sizing, so it was being sold off on amazon for about stg£30!

what_traffic · 29-11-2018 06:11PM

May need to don sunglasses before clicking on this link.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/for-three-innovations-it-s-all-about-safety-first-1.3711105

Chips Lovell · 29-11-2018 06:13PM

what_traffic wrote: »

May need to don sunglasses before clicking on this link.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/for-three-innovations-it-s-all-about-safety-first-1.3711105

“I got tired of getting run over going to work...I got hit by three cars in a month.”

Either he's the unluckiest man in the world or...

radia · 29-11-2018 07:16PM

Irish Times wrote:

“Trying to get people to wear them then has been the next step. Some people love them and won’t go anywhere without them, and some people wouldn’t be seen dead in them. There’s a lot of mamils (middle-aged men in lyrca) knocking around that like to dress in black and that doesn’t really help drivers. It’s an obligation on cyclists and road-users to make themselves seen.

“We don’t have a culture like the Dutch do where the cyclist is king. Or the Danish. You wouldn’t get hi-viz on these people if you tried. They barely wear helmets because everybody cycles, and if anyone hits you on a bike with their car there will be serious repercussions.”

I find this incredibly depressing. Has the RSA really indoctrinated us, and created a victim blaming culture, to such an extent that instead of there being an obligation on drivers to look for everybody irrespective of what they're wearing, there is a perceived obligation on cyclists to dress up like Christmas trees, and an acceptance that in Ireland 'serious repercussions' don't (shouldn't) flow from a motorist hitting a cyclist.

"Oh, in Denmaek/Holland they don't wear high viz and you still can't mow them down without getting into trouble, but it's different over there" is the tone. Eh, no, it's not acceptable to go randomly driving your car into unsuspecting people here either, just because you don't think their clothing is bright enough, and any article that fosters the impression that the motorist is blameless in such circumstances is dangerous.

magicbastarder · 29-11-2018 08:01PM

He's trying to sell a product, and creating the demand for it. But it's a pity it's being reported without comment.

Eamonnator · 29-11-2018 08:03PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

“I got tired of getting run over going to work...I got hit by three cars in a month.”

Either he's the unluckiest man in the world or...

He said he wasn't visible. That's why he was hit.
He should be in the movies, I can think of a perfect role for him.

Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

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