Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

rubadub

magicbastarder wrote: »

He's trying to sell a product, and creating the demand for it. But it's a pity it's being reported without comment.

you can find him here, there is a link to the article so can comment underneath it.

https://twitter.com/legliteireland1

CramCycle

Eamonnator wrote: »

He said he wasn't visible. That's why he was hit.
He should be in the movies, I can think of a perfect role for him.

If only there was some other product, already on the market, required by law, that he presumably wasn't using.

Eamonnator

Eamonnator wrote: »

He said he wasn't visible. That's why he was hit.
He should be in the movies, I can think of a perfect role for him.

And it's not The Invisible Man.

Mickiemcfist

what_traffic wrote: »

May need to don sunglasses before clicking on this link.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/for-three-innovations-it-s-all-about-safety-first-1.3711105

The most amazing thing is that it somehow took him 5 years to create the product.....he put reflective strips on a pair of socks.

magicbastarder

i bought a pair of hi viz leggings last year or the year before. i wonder if he goes into aldi at all?

spookwoman

radia wrote: »

I find this incredibly depressing. Has the RSA really indoctrinated us, and created a victim blaming culture, to such an extent that instead of there being an obligation on drivers to look for everybody irrespective of what they're wearing, there is a perceived obligation on cyclists to dress up like Christmas trees, and an acceptance that in Ireland 'serious repercussions' don't (shouldn't) flow from a motorist hitting a cyclist.

"Oh, in Denmaek/Holland they don't wear high viz and you still can't mow them down without getting into trouble, but it's different over there" is the tone. Eh, no, it's not acceptable to go randomly driving your car into unsuspecting people here either, just because you don't think their clothing is bright enough, and any article that fosters the impression that the motorist is blameless in such circumstances is dangerous.

Denmark Holland have proper infrastructure, cycle lanes etc. Complain all you want about the lack of infrastructure here but the fact is there is none and therefore it is up to EVERYONE on the roads to be careful and make things a safe as possible for themselves and everyone else. If someone is cycling or driving on a road at night with no lights on, busted reflectors and get in a accident of course the person with no lights or reflectors is going to get no sympathy and probably blamed. You also cannot expect to slow cars down further just because someone has a bee in their bonnet about having to have lights on or wear a hi vis vest.
It's like driving down the white line expecting everyone to move out of your way and then giving out if you get hit. There is an Irish mentality that people think they have a right to do this and that and no one should tell us what to do, a bit like some people who won't pay tax on their car because they think they have paid for it through the tax on fuel etc. I think it's a throwback to the day of when we were under British rule. The fact is there are rules and laws about using the roads and well if you don't like the rules then don't use the road

magicbastarder

spookwoman wrote: »

it is up to EVERYONE on the roads to be careful and make things a safe as possible for themselves and everyone else.

you're falling into the false equivalence trap. or else that's just badly worded.

motoring is seen as the default option in ireland, and that everything else should be moulded to fit.

Macy0161

magicbastarder wrote: »

i bought a pair of hi viz leggings last year or the year before. i wonder if he goes into aldi at all?

Or the arm/ ankle bands that lidl and aldi regularly have. Without having to look like a triathlete with this ridiculous knee length compression socks.

Chips Lovell

I don't think anyone's arguing for cycling without lights.

AndrewJRenko

spookwoman wrote: »

radia wrote: »

I find this incredibly depressing. Has the RSA really indoctrinated us, and created a victim blaming culture, to such an extent that instead of there being an obligation on drivers to look for everybody irrespective of what they're wearing, there is a perceived obligation on cyclists to dress up like Christmas trees, and an acceptance that in Ireland 'serious repercussions' don't (shouldn't) flow from a motorist hitting a cyclist.

"Oh, in Denmaek/Holland they don't wear high viz and you still can't mow them down without getting into trouble, but it's different over there" is the tone. Eh, no, it's not acceptable to go randomly driving your car into unsuspecting people here either, just because you don't think their clothing is bright enough, and any article that fosters the impression that the motorist is blameless in such circumstances is dangerous.

You also cannot expect to slow cars down further just because someone has a bee in their bonnet about having to have lights on or wear a hi vis vest.

We can just expect drivers to drive in a manner that allows them to stop within the distance they can see to be clear, as they are legally required to do.

All cyclists should have lights after the hours of darkness. Anything else is a distraction.

spookwoman

magicbastarder wrote: »

you're falling into the false equivalence trap. or else that's just badly worded.

motoring is seen as the default option in ireland, and that everything else should be moulded to fit.

Everyone as in pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders and drivers.
Pre 1966 cycling was probably the default because there was not many people on the roads driving then in 1966 a law was introduced for drink driving because the saw people where dying on the roads. The law keeps changing with times, the limits go down , drugs where introduced and then drunk cycling was introduced. People are still bitching and complaining about how it's their right to drink and drive but in the end this is about saving lives, just like the possibility of High Vis. The law changes with the times and if it means wearing a high vis to save lives all the better. Is someones pride really worth their life?

AndrewJRenko We can just expect drivers to drive in a manner that allows them to stop within the distance they can see to be clear, as they are legally required to do.

All cyclists should have lights after the hours of darkness. Anything else is a distraction.


I agree with the distance thing that what its meant to be but hwo is wearing a hi vis a distraction?

AndrewJRenko

spookwoman wrote: »

I agree with the distance thing that what its meant to be but hwo is wearing a hi vis a distraction?

Because

a) Darkness/light is not a significant factor in cyclist deaths (just 2 out of 15 cyclists killed last year were killed in hours of darkness)
b) There is no evidence that hi-vis saves lives.


What colour is your car? Does it have hi-vis stripes all around so that it is visible from all directions as night?

tomasrojo

spookwoman wrote: »

People are still bitching and complaining about how it's their right to drink and drive but in the end this is about saving lives, just like the possibility of High Vis. The law changes with the times and if it means wearing a high vis to save lives all the better. Is someones pride really worth their life?

You haven't read much of this thread, have you?

Grassey

spookwoman wrote:

. The law keeps changing with times, the limits go down , drugs where introduced and then drunk cycling was introduced. People are still bitching and complaining about how it's their right to drink and drive but in the end this is about saving lives, just like the possibility of High Vis. The law changes with the times and if it means wearing a high vis to save lives all the better. Is someones pride really worth their life?

Drink driving laws introduced to stop drunk drivers. Targeted at the people causing deaths.

Speeding laws introduced to stop speeding drivers. Targeted at the people causing deaths.

High vis laws introduced to stop drivers killing VRUs. Targeted at victims to absolved the causers.

Implementation of such a law would be completely in line with the current times... Insofar as deflecting blame onto victims rather than tackle causes of the issue.

AndrewJRenko

From https://www.facebook.com/no.helmet.law

The "high viz" myth... Just like helmets, they are not the sollution!

"Highlights
•
A bicycling visibility aids law had no influence on bicycle crash

•
A bicycling visibility aids law had no influence on proportion of bicycle crash

•
The law did not produce immediate effects, nor did it have any effects over time"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214140518300045?fbclid=IwAR1EvZ0ur6tTwntz_W7kTul8eZY6PYSpr2Ci1hTjQrTGoc3Yq8Q_s4hMQYk

Aysedasi

Interesting video

https://youtu.be/x94PGgYKHQ0

check_six

Does anyone think (or hope) this whole "gilet jaune" rioting thing in Paris will turn the hi-viz vest into an overly political symbol with people steering clear of them in future? Something a bit like happened to the balaclava?

Ray Bloody Purchase

check_six wrote: »

Does anyone think (or hope) this whole "gilet jaune" rioting thing in Paris will turn the hi-viz vest into an overly political symbol with people steering clear of them in future? Something a bit like happened to the balaclava?

No, in Ireland hi-vis vests will always be synonymous with six county council workers staring into a hole whilst a contractor does the digging.

Chips Lovell

From the Sunday Times yesterday. Both protesters and counter-protesters. I think we're reaching peak high-viz.

tomasrojo

The Planet Money podcast was dealing with the French protests, and, intriguingly, they describe the protesters' garb as
"day-glo yellow vests with reflective tape around the middle", as if they're uncommon enough that the USA doesn't have a readily recognisable term for them.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/05/673840278/macron-s-meltdown

(I presume this is the case; I've never noticed a major hi-viz obsession in the USA, or in their media, though occasionally I've seen it come up in the context of some wheeze to criminalise spontaneous acts of walking.)

tomasrojo

The way that podcast describes the protests, it sounds as if it's heavily made up of disgruntled motorists, with the hi-viz jacket being chosen as a uniform because every motorist has to have one in the car, so they're ubiquitous.

Melodeon

tomasrojo wrote: »

The Planet Money podcast was dealing with the French protests, and, intriguingly, they describe the protesters' garb as
"day-glo yellow vests with reflective tape around the middle", as if they're uncommon enough that the USA doesn't have a readily recognisable term for them.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/05/673840278/macron-s-meltdown

(I presume this is the case; I've never noticed a major hi-viz obsession in the USA, or in their media, though occasionally I've seen it come up in the context of some wheeze to criminalise spontaneous acts of walking.)

They'd be more commonly known as 'safety vests' in the USA, and they tend to favor (sic) fluro orange there too:

tomasrojo

I'm assuming this is the locus classicus of American safety vests:
https://americansafetyvest.com/

A wide variety of vests there, perhaps with orange edging out yellow.

AndrewJRenko

Melodeon wrote: »

They'd be more commonly known as 'safety vests' in the USA, and they tend to favor (sic) fluro orange there too:

Yes, they do like their orange gear over there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1OtWdYXTAQ

The NSFW back story is worth checking out too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9KmfkbFJIw

Chips Lovell

Sale of high viz vests now banned in Egypt.

zell12

Meanwhile in Ireland

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1072474839951269889

Ray Bloody Purchase

zell12 wrote: »

Meanwhile in Ireland
[mg]https://i.imgur.com/pIjD5bY.jpg?1[/img]
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1072474839951269889[/rl]

And they created an additional hazard where they were parked because people were queuing out on the frickin road to get a crap light and hi vis vest.

Crowd control me hole.

zell12

That's 14 garda there
What a waste of resources

Melodeon

Here comes the Finnish army:

Eamonnator

^^^^^^^
must have cycled to work.