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Public servants' inability to afford to pay rent in Dublin.

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    #212
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    If you do nursing, policing, or teach in London, you commute in from wherever you can afford. You don't whinge outside the houses of parliament about the rent in Covent Garden.

    Why are the people who do this work in Ireland special? Where have they acquired these notions?


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    #213
    thegetawaycar
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Stockholm, Copenhagen, Oslo, Amsterdam, Madrid, Barcelona, Vienna, Berlin to name but a few

    Frankfurt is actually not the worst if you live outside the center both it and Zurich are banking meccas full of the super high earners. Indeed nobody would be bothered living in a boring kip like frankfurt if it weren't for the high rolling jobs.

    and London is part of a doomed nation that despises it's own population.

    Having lived in both Barcelona and Madrid I can speak from experience saying that to own an apartment in the city centre on an average Spanish wage is close to impossible. You can rent at a better level of affordability than in Dublin though as they allow high rises and numerous tiny apartments (regulations seem to be a lot lower).

    Your point on Frankfurt relates to Dublin too, the reason people want to live there is the ability to earn and that drives up demand and prices. If you don't increase supply prices will grow and continue to grow into the future. Amsterdam (especially the centre) has house prices similar to Dublin.

    As Ireland and Dublin continues to grow the city centre will continue to become more expensive to rent and buy in so I'd be allocating social stock for vital service providers.


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    #214
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,530 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Stockholm....

    Stockholm has pretty major housing problems.

    https://glomo.se/latest/the-immensurable-housing-dilemma-that-is-stockholm

    http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20160517-this-is-one-city-where-youll-never-find-a-home


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    #215
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    thegetawaycar wrote: »
    Nope, I'd just move the won't work class out and those with disabilities or elderly would not be moved out of their homes.

    Right, so we live in a country with circa 5% unemployment, within Dublin that % is even lower, and of those you'd have to separate those out who 'won't work' as opposed to those that are between jobs or have unexpectedly lost their job for some reason. Assuming all these are in social housing in critical areas, you're going to move those people else where?

    It just seems like such a teadius and pointless task with little benefit at a time when iRES is buying up all the new apartments on behalf of their international investers and renting them to us at €2,000 a month.

    I would suggest a public beheading of the board of iRes might be a more satisfactory expenditure of effort, and may have a more far reaching effect on the cost of renting.
    thegetawaycar wrote: »
    I'm not sure how you think the "greedy elite" can create more spaces for housing in the city centre when demand far outstrips supply.
    I don't expect the greedy elite to do anything, afterall they are only servicing their own interests as best they can. I expect the state, which represents the people to use a small % of it's €60bn per annum resources to construct a large enough stock of housing to accommodate the population.


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    #216
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Everybody hates the public sector until it was your house that got burned down, your mother needing to be looked after in hospital, your kids needing to go to school. Then suddenly the nurses aren't paid enough


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    #217
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    Stockholm has pretty major housing problems.

    https://glomo.se/latest/the-immensurable-housing-dilemma-that-is-stockholm

    http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20160517-this-is-one-city-where-youll-never-find-a-home

    As does Copenhagen.


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    #218
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I don't expect the greedy elite to do anything, afterall they are only servicing their own interests as best they can. I expect the state, which represents the people to use a small % of it's €60bn per annum resources to construct a large enough stock of housing to accommodate the population.

    What's a small percentage? Do you know how much it would cost to build enough housing to house all those currently search for somewhere affordable to live? It's not a small percentage...


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    #219
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    topper75 wrote: »
    If you do nursing, policing, or teach in London, you commute in from wherever you can afford. You don't whinge outside the houses of parliament about the rent in Covent Garden.

    London is a cesspit of extreme classism ruled by a select few extremely inbred Brits and Russian billionaires who spend all day fellating each other at the expense of everyone else. Hardly a place worth talking about when it comes to discussing the most fair and equitable way forward for housing policy in a modern country.


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    #220
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    iRES are as much a red herring as any other entity in this market. property management firms operate in most mature and in demand markets in europe.

    more homes. higher apartments. the separation of "property" from "housing as a service". the honest registry of property and housing need.

    focusing on an entity (be that banks or social housing or public sector or landlords) is the wrong approach, as opposed to identifying what is happening thats a problem and whats not happening that would be a solution


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    #221
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    thegetawaycar wrote: »
    Having lived in both Barcelona and Madrid I can speak from experience saying that to own an apartment in the city centre on an average Spanish wage is close to impossible. You can rent at a better level of affordability than in Dublin though as they allow high rises and numerous tiny apartments (regulations seem to be a lot lower).

    exactly
    thegetawaycar wrote: »
    Your point on Frankfurt relates to Dublin too, the reason people want to live there is the ability to earn and that drives up demand and prices. If you don't increase supply prices will grow and continue to grow into the future. Amsterdam (especially the centre) has house prices similar to Dublin.

    By all means grow, so long as there is a suitable policy to prevent rapid cost inflation in housing, which is what responsible governance is.


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    #222
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    cgcsb wrote: »
    With mass emmigration, perpetual recession and low living standards? you're grand there boomer man. There's better solutions.
    Believe it or not, sharing housing does not cause any of those things. If it did, those issues would exist in every major city in the world.


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    #223
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    It would be better if threads like this could be started with real comparable data from the OECD. Then instead of positions and feelings, we might be able to get as close as possible to the 'truth'.

    Having said that. It seems mental to me that there are teachers in this country living in Tralee on over 60k per year for 8 months work. That to me seems off the wall all together.

    Are there many other countries in the world that you can become a multiple home owner over the course of your career as a teacher? Is there?

    *Having said that, I think the government needs to put building affordable housing at the top of its to do list.


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    #224
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    limnam wrote: »
    Sure it is.






    No public sector worker has lost their home due to losing their public sector job. So they wouldn't know anything about losing thier job in the PS as no there was no one made redundant from the PS during the "cut backs"


    Is this really such a hard concept to understand?


    Public sector workers took severe pay cuts along with a raft of questionable additional deductions for things we'll never benefit from.

    Those same public sector workers provide all the services you will avail of at some point in your life.

    No new CS/PS is on a gravy train. My take home starting pay was 30€ more a week than social welfare. Not exactly making loads of cash.

    Take out of that the cost of going to work and I was worse off. I also lost a raft of social welfare payments to thank me for getting up off my ar*e and working.


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    #225
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    It feels like people expect to leave school and be able to rent on their own from their first pay packet.
    But yeah, house share was the norm for the first few years before getting settled.

    I think most people expect to do the housesharing thing for a while when starting out. The point is that in Dublin and other areas, the housesharing thing is now very expensive due to the housing shortage. That example of Electric Sheep’s? Those five housemates will still be paying exorbitant rent. Cramming in the housemates to make things cheaper doesn’t work out too well these days.


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    #226
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    on a wider kind of point

    it kinda strikes me as a ?...good thing....? that the lowest paid public worker starts at a low wage but will see that rise over time to something decent even if not promoted, and has a pension (albeit not much better than COAP since 2014)

    it strikes me as a ?...good thing....? that average public sector wages are ok. theres no such thing as a valid comparison with an "average private sector worker" because that ignores two hugely relevant items:

    -the actual role in question (if it exists in the private sector, its probably better paid, if it doesnt exist in the private sector, then you really want to ask why not in terms of whether you want it profit-driven or not)

    - it ignores the crucial factor- private sector highest paid are obscenely remunerated and the private sector lowest paid are exploited. "average" doesnt mean sh1t and if you think the govt of the country you live in should aspire to this then.....we disagree i guess.

    the average civil servant, if those figures are worth much, earns about a fifth of his or her secretary general, a person whose role equivalent in the private sector would almost certainly be several multiples of 5 higher than an "average" employee in their org. this is ?......a good thing....?

    but lookit, lazy blah blah we pay your wages blah blah blah free gold pensions blah blah blah

    www.publicjobs.ie away with yis


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    #227
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Ronin Salty Hotel wrote: »
    Those same public sector workers provide all the services you will avail of at some point in your life.

    No new CS/PS is on a gravy train. My take home starting pay was 30€ more a week than social welfare. Not exactly making loads of cash.

    Take out of that the cost of going to work and I was worse off. I also lost a raft of social welfare payments to thank me for getting up off my ar*e and working.

    I know you were responding to someone else, but what you say there is more than fair and I personally agree with you.

    You say yourself though that no new Public Sector workers are on the gravy train, that shows there is at least an honest problem that some people in the Private Sector have with the wages paid by the state.

    Costs should be broken down by each sector/department in both the Private and Public Sector and then compared with countries from the OECB to see where the chips fall. With factoring in a job for life/guaranteed pension in the Public Sector versus a higher wage ceiling/more job flexibility in the Private Sector.

    If we could get the detailed numbers then people can make more informed opinions on how best to run the country for the whole of society.


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    #228
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,154 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    The rental crises affects everyone. This thread has turned into a public Vs private match. Others turn into a employed Vs Unemployed. Yet others turn into a homeless Vs refugee argument. It's always turned into someone Vs Someone.

    It doesn't matter. The root cause is still the same and a solution solves it for everyone.


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    #229
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,075 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Grayson wrote: »
    The rental crises affects everyone. This thread has turned into a public Vs private match. Others turn into a employed Vs Unemployed. Yet others turn into a homeless Vs refugee argument. It's always turned into someone Vs Someone.

    It doesn't matter. The root cause is still the same and a solution solves it for everyone.

    Reported on the news tonight that the massive overspend in health is leaving funding short for housing.
    And yet I have to pay health insurance to ensure proper and timely health care.
    Says it all really


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    #230
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    Myah Flaky Tablecloth wrote: »
    We have reached a new low in Irish society when we expect our teachers to share rooms with Mexicans.

    and who says mexicans or brazilians are not teachers/nurses or other degrees ?

    I think some of these ppl complaining about their PS salaries need to go off travel in some of the third world countries (or even Eastern Europe), see what teachers/doctors and so on earn there, and what are their work conditions; maybe they would start appreciating what this country has: good pay for PS.


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    #231
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Ronin Salty Hotel wrote: »
    Public sector workers took severe pay cuts along with a raft of questionable additional deductions for things we'll never benefit from.

    Those same public sector workers provide all the services you will avail of at some point in your life.

    No new CS/PS is on a gravy train. My take home starting pay was 30€ more a week than social welfare. Not exactly making loads of cash.

    Take out of that the cost of going to work and I was worse off. I also lost a raft of social welfare payments to thank me for getting up off my ar*e and working.


    While they were secure in the fact they would not lose their job


    While they moaned and whined about the cuts as their employer was crippled in debt


    While they moaned and whined about having to contribute to their _own_ pensions.


    Now you want a round applause for getting up off your h*le?


    Are you for real?


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    #232
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    The rental crisis is a direct result of FFG in power who enacted policies for wealthy funds like REIT and their FFG buddies in rich circles to corner the housing market hence putting up rents for everyone. If you don't believe this, continue to pay sky high rent and moan to yourself. Otherwise do some research.


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    #233
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    klaaaz wrote: »
    The rental crisis is a direct result of FFG Sinn Fein and friends in power who enacted policies for wealthy funds like REIT and their FFG buddies in rich circles to corner the housing market hence putting up rents for everyone have insisted that dublin city (and the other cities to a lesser extent) is dominated by 1-2 story housing and council flats right bang in the city center, resulting in a huge shortage of suitable housing in our cities (especially Dublin). If you don't believe this, continue to pay sky high rent and moan to yourself. Otherwise do some research.

    Fixed your post


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    #234
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    dotsman wrote: »
    Fixed your post

    FFG are in power and have been since 1921.


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    #235
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,859 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Investment needs to be spread out around the country or this problem will not be fixed.


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    #236
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    klaaaz wrote: »
    FFG are in power and have been since 1921.

    Lloyd George was in power in a Lib/Con coalition in 1921. FF and FG didn't even exist.


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    #237
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Lloyd George was in power in a Lib/Con coalition in 1921. FF and FG didn't even exist.

    Boohoo on the legality of Dail Eireann at that time nearly 100 years ago.

    FFG have been in power in our lifetime and helped propagate this housing mess.


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    #238
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    Keep dublin for the dubs. Problem solved.


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    #239
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Boohoo on the legality of Dail Eireann at that time nearly 100 years ago.

    FFG have been in power in our lifetime and helped propagate this housing mess.

    Dublin had the worst slums in Europe in 1921. The housing situation is a lot better then than now. Why should teachers be paid any more. Just what special skills do you need to spend a few hours a day walking around a room saying "who let that fart?"


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    #240
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Dublin had the worst slums in Europe in 1921. The housing situation is a lot better then than now. Why should teachers be paid any more. Just what special skills do you need to spend a few hours a day walking around a room saying "who let that fart?"

    You're comparing housing now and in 1921, why??

    And why introduce teachers?

    Everyone is being screwed by the high rents and high house prices being perpetuated by the wealthy and facilitated by FFG in power. Guess you approve of their policies for the wealthy property owners then


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    #241
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    klaaaz wrote: »
    You're comparing housing now and in 1921, why??

    And why introduce teachers?

    Everyone is being screwed by the high rents and high house prices being perpetuated by the wealthy and facilitated by FFG in power. Guess you approve of their policies for the wealthy property owners then
    You are the one who started about 1921! When your completely inadequate historical knowledge is corrected you start up a personal attack. Who voted for those politicians? Who consistently gave their votes to the highest bidder? Who voted for free farms in 1918? In Germany when the government does something stupid like run a budget deficit, it is voted out of office. In Ireland when a government tries to do something sensible like try to have a budget surplus it is voted out. Simplistic nonsense about politicians doing it all on their own will never solve any problem.


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