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Russia fires on Ukranian vessels

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    #92
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    gandalf wrote: »
    This is what happens when you don't deal with aggressive rogue regimes like Russia properly in the first place.

    If they are proven to be in the wrong then there needs to be a strong response from the International Community. Booting them out of the SWIFT system would be a good start along with restricting uber rich Russians ability to travel as well.

    You've basically proven them guilty in your first paragraph. Why dont you wait to hear the full story first before casting judgement?


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    #93
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    Belen Lazy Smallness wrote: »
    In a very worse case scenario? Nope.

    Too close and too many semi-fertile fields in that region.

    Elsewhere, who knows (in an 'very unlikely' SHTF event).

    Will there be a global conflict sometime in the next 50yrs, perhaps.
    Are China and others preparing for such an event, perhaps.


    I take it then notwithstanding the verbal diarrhea you have no comment to make on whether nuclear winter was 1970s myth.


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    #94
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    batgoat wrote: »
    Never seen that account before so finding it a tad suspect

    Yes, I should double check twitter sources.
    It's not an account I follow, but from one that had retweeted.


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    #95
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Raheem Euro wrote: »
    I think "nuclear winter" has been debunked hasnt it?

    Patrolling the Mojave would almost make you wish for nuclear winter.


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    #96
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    The war will be tweeted.


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    #97
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    gandalf wrote: »
    This is what happens when you don't deal with aggressive rogue regimes like Russia properly in the first place.

    If they are proven to be in the wrong then there needs to be a strong response from the International Community. Booting them out of the SWIFT system would be a good start along with restricting uber rich Russians ability to travel as well.

    Wouldn't that snooker businesses who trade with Russia though?


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    #98
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    You've basically proven them guilty in your first paragraph. Why dont you wait to hear the full story first before casting judgement?

    Well given their recent form it hard to see beyond them being the aggressor here. But I did add the caveat of "proven".


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    #99
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,533 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    gandalf wrote: »
    This is what happens when you don't deal with aggressive rogue regimes like Russia properly in the first place.

    If they are proven to be in the wrong then there needs to be a strong response from the International Community. Booting them out of the SWIFT system would be a good start along with restricting uber rich Russians ability to travel as well.

    The rogue state Russia who singlehandedly destroyed the ISIL/ISIS califate and the threat it posed to the world while the rest of the world stood by and did nothing (other than supply ISIS with American made weapons).

    Trump is a cretin but had Hillary been elected there'd already be a hot war between the USA and Russia.
    This will happen eventually, you can't pass up an opportunity for a good war can you? Money to be made from the suffering of millions.


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    #100
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    P_1 wrote: »
    Wouldn't that snooker businesses who trade with Russia though?

    Yes it would but given their behaviour something needs to give and I'd prefer that sort of response to a military one wouldn't you?


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    #101
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    nullzero wrote: »
    The rogue state Russia who singlehandedly destroyed the ISIL/ISIS califate and the threat it posed to the world while the rest of the world stood by and did nothing (other than supply ISIS with American made weapons).

    Trump is a cretin but had Hillary been elected there'd already be a hot war between the USA and russ

    Ah the apologists are online at last ;)


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    #102
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,533 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    gandalf wrote: »
    Ah the apologists are online at last ;)

    I'm not a Russian apologist, but painting them as bogeymen is lazy and circumvents logic.


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    #103
    glen123
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭glen123


    If Poroshenko declares the state of emergency, will elections go ahead in March? He has no chance of winning as Timoshenko is way ahead.


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    #104
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    nullzero wrote: »
    The rogue state Russia who singlehandedly destroyed the ISIL/ISIS califate and the threat it posed to the world while the rest of the world stood by and did nothing (other than supply ISIS with American made weapons).

    Trump is a cretin but had Hillary been elected there'd already be a hot war between the USA and Russia.
    This will happen eventually, you can't pass up an opportunity for a good war can you? Money to be made from the suffering of millions.

    Bernie was the man.


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    #105
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    nullzero wrote: »
    I'm not a Russian apologist, but painting them as bogeymen is lazy and circumvents logic.

    In the case of the Ukraine and Crimea they are the aggressor and as you label them the "bogeyman". This isn't about Syria and this isn't about US Russian Relations.

    Do you think Russia's actions in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine were warranted?


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    #106
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    glen123 wrote: »
    If Poroshenko declares the state of emergency, will elections go ahead in March? He has no chance of winning as Timoshenko is way ahead.

    Interesting point.


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    #107
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    gandalf wrote: »
    Yes it would but given their behaviour something needs to give and I'd prefer that sort of response to a military one wouldn't you?

    Without a shadow of a doubt. Alas I fear theres no way of de escalating this.

    Ukraine are likely going to declare war on Russia, at best we will have Russian tanks on the Dnieper if that happens. I sincerely hope no EU countries back them up military because that will only lead to escalation


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    #108
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,144 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    gandalf wrote: »
    Well given their recent form it hard to see beyond them being the aggressor here. But I did add the caveat of "proven".

    Reports that the Ukrainian naval vessels that tried to go through the Kerch Strait did so without informing their Russian counterparts, as the custom is they should. If that's true then Ukraine have brought this on themselves.


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    #109
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Raheem Euro wrote: »
    I take it then notwithstanding the verbal diarrhea you have no comment to make on whether nuclear winter was 1970s myth.

    I take it then notwithstanding you have no actual proof of the aftermath of <22,000 big hot sticks going off in a short period of time.

    No one knows for sure the results of such a dynamic end-times sceanrio taking place, other than it sure won't be fun-times.

    Would it take a day, week or month to recover? Likely it would take a season (3mths at least) to get back to some sort of normality of netflix 'n chill.

    Perhaps that's where the 'winter' refernece comes from. A super-volcano may deliver similar results, only difference wouldn't be the inconvience of isotopes.


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    #110
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    glen123 wrote: »
    If Poroshenko declares the state of emergency, will elections go ahead in March? He has no chance of winning as Timoshenko is way ahead.

    Seems like he doesnt want these elections to go ahead. Would Timoshenko be more pro Russian?


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    #111
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Reports that the Ukrainian naval vessels that tried to go through the Kerch Strait did so without informing their Russian counterparts, as the custom is they should. If that's true then Ukraine have brought this on themselves.

    And you would have to wonder why.

    I had thought there was an agreed treaty about both nations using the the sea of Azov?


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    #112
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,144 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    P_1 wrote: »
    Without a shadow of a doubt. Alas I fear theres no way of de escalating this.

    Ukraine are likely going to declare war on Russia, at best we will have Russian tanks on the Dnieper if that happens. I sincerely hope no EU countries back them up military because that will only lead to escalation

    Where's this coming from?


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    #113
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    Belen Lazy Smallness wrote: »
    I take it then notwithstanding you have no actual proof of the aftermath of <22,000 big hot sticks going off in a short period of time.

    No one knows for sure the results of such a dynamic end-times sceanrio taking place, other than it sure won't be fun-times.

    Would it take a day, week or month to recover? Likely it would take a season (3mths at least) to get back to some sort of normality of netflix 'n chill.

    Perhaps that's where the 'winter' refernece comes from. A super-volcano may deliver similar results, only difference wouldn't be the inconvience of isotopes.

    Sorry I haven't got my Sh1te to English Dictionary with me. A simple yes or no would suffice.


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    #114
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Where's this coming from?

    https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1066802834421747718?s=19


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    #115
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    Line up the various military assets of both nations, I can't see Ukraine poking the Bear in the eye tbh.


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    #116
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Belen Lazy Smallness wrote: »
    I take it then notwithstanding you have no actual proof of the aftermath of <22,000 big hot sticks going off in a short period of time.

    No one knows for sure the results of such a dynamic end-times sceanrio taking place, other than it sure won't be fun-times.

    Would it take a day, week or month to recover? Likely it would take a season (3mths at least) to get back to some sort of normality of netflix 'n chill.

    Perhaps that's where the 'winter' refernece comes from. A super-volcano may deliver similar results, only difference wouldn't be the inconvience of isotopes.

    No. The models still agree, AFAIK.
    It would span a few growing seasons.
    Enough to cause widespread famine.


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    #117
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Reports that the Ukrainian naval vessels that tried to go through the Kerch Strait did so without informing their Russian counterparts, as the custom is they should. If that's true then Ukraine have brought this on themselves.

    So the Russians had every right to disable the vessels. No deaths reported so far so job well done on that note.


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    #118
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    P_1 wrote: »
    Without a shadow of a doubt. Alas I fear theres no way of de escalating this.

    Ukraine are likely going to declare war on Russia, at best we will have Russian tanks on the Dnieper if that happens. I sincerely hope no EU countries back them up military because that will only lead to escalation

    Well the people keeping Putin in power are the Oligarch class in Russia, removing Russia from SWIFT and restricting their ability to travel will put him under far more pressure than any military action. Military action would play into his hands and help improve his popularity.

    This is probably happening because his popularity is waning in Russia especially with young people. Nothing like a bit of a war situation to help boost an autocrats poll figures.


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    #119
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    badtoro wrote: »
    Line up the various military assets of both nations, I can't see Ukraine poking the Bear in the eye tbh.

    I'd they're hoping for Western support, they're dreaming.


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    #120
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,144 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    P_1 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1066802834421747718?s=19

    What kind of crazy talk is that? Bit of grandstanding I'd say. They'd be crushed in a war with Russia, and nobody is going to come to their aid.


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    #121
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Reports that the Ukrainian naval vessels that tried to go through the Kerch Strait did so without informing their Russian counterparts, as the custom is they should. If that's true then Ukraine have brought this on themselves.

    Reports from who thou?


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