Russia fires on Ukranian vessels

gandalf

pri wrote: »

Could this genuinely result in an all-out military confrontation between Russia and Ukraine?

Unless the Ukrainians have a death wish I doubt it.

However given Russia's continued aggressive actions carrying out death by a thousand cuts on the Ukrainian State it is pushing things towards a head in the Ukraine. Russias ultimate goal is to make the Ukraine unpalatable to becoming a EU member.

batgoat

Tigerbaby wrote: »

and is Russia not democratic?

or have I missed something?

God Bless Putin.

Not particularly, terrible human rights record, dissident voices end up mysteriously dead or in prison. High rates of journalists being assassinated. They fall under authoritarian in the democracy index(Run by The Economist).

igCorcaigh

gandalf wrote: »

Unless the Ukrainians have a death wish I doubt it.

However given Russia's continued aggressive actions carrying out death by a thousand cuts on the Ukrainian State it is pushing things towards a head in the Ukraine. Russias ultimate goal is to make the Ukraine unpalatable to becoming a EU member.

Exactly this.

P_1

gandalf wrote: »

Unless the Ukrainians have a death wish I doubt it.

However given Russia's continued aggressive actions carrying out death by a thousand cuts on the Ukrainian State it is pushing things towards a head in the Ukraine. Russias ultimate goal is to make the Ukraine unpalatable to becoming a EU member.

Youd have thought they'd already have achieved that

Irish Praetorian

Ah Russia up to no good again, right have we gotten through all the usual deflections already? Someone has mentioned Syria I see, one box ticked off; I see Russia has gone from participating in that conflict to winning it singlehanded - god knows what all those Kurds, Iraqis, Syrians were doing let alone western airforces, having tea presumably. Now can I get a 'Cameron and Sarkozy bombed the Libya' ideally with a side order of 'pariah nation with less gold than Greece which was doing to topple the petrodollar with gold dinars' please, thank you. Lastly can someone just sit in the corner rocking back and forth repeating 'Ukraine, Fascist, Ukraine, Fascist, Ukraine, Fascist' and I think we will have all our bases covered.

igCorcaigh

pri wrote: »

If it won't lead to a Russo-Ukrainian war, why is the latter declaring martial law?

Internal politics. See above about the upcoming elections.

Make of it what you will though.

gandalf

P_1 wrote: »

Youd have thought they'd already have achieved that

I suppose they are making sure but remember this is also for the home audience as well. Putins popularity has been dropping especially with young people in recent times.

Nothing like a bit of warlike chest beating to increase a despots poll figures eh

Harry Palmr

Why do all the worst countries have all the best carbon goodies?

igCorcaigh

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Some people talk about Ukraine's fascist tendencies.

Maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong.

But this incident can easily add fuel to that fire.
As it will also to the narrative of the Russian aggressor.


https://twitter.com/WimLuyckx/status/1066810756950368256?s=19

I was gonna ask what martial law meant. I guess that tweet was answering that question?

Gatling

gandalf wrote: »

I suppose they are making sure but remember this is also for the home audience as well. Putins popularity has been dropping especially with young people in recent times.

Nothing like a bit of warlike chest beating to increase a despots poll figures eh

The skirpals
Spy networks getting caught
Russians soldiers wiped out.by American forces in Syria
Almost sinking there one antique aircraft carrier while docked ,

Aul vlaidi isn't having a great time of it lately

CinemaGuy45

gandalf wrote: »

I suppose they are making sure but remember this is also for the home audience as well. Putins popularity has been dropping especially with young people in recent times.

Nothing like a bit of warlike chest beating to increase a despots poll figures eh

You mean like this?

namloc1980

Bizarrely the Ukrainian Defence committee meeting is live on Ukrainian TV/YouTube:

.

P_1

pri wrote: »

What are the very latest updates?

I hear NATO is condemning the occurrences tonight.

Well Trump seems busy closing the border crossings between San Diego and Tijuana, that's what appears to be grabbing the headlines in America, that and the football, seemingly the Browns won away from home. The EU is focused on the mess that is Brexit. Seems the perfect time for Vlad to try something shady

gandalf

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

You mean like this?

Absolutely. Then again I don't believe in the old X did something bad therefore Y should be allowed to as well. It's too playground based for me.

Gatling

P_1 wrote: »

Well Trump seems busy closing the border crossings between San Diego and Tijuana, that's what appears to be grabbing the headlines in America, that and the football, seemingly the Browns won away from home. The EU is focused on the mess that is Brexit. Seems the perfect time for Vlad to try something shady

Very well timed don't you think.

And yet some on here will likely blame the Ukrainians for invading Moscow with a single unarmed tug boat.

Wonder if the Irish navy could size the whole Atlantic Ocean from Galway to ellis Island

gandalf

namloc1980 wrote: »

Bizarrely the Ukrainian Defence committee meeting is live on Ukrainian TV/YouTube:

.

Well if they declare war it will give those watching enough time to kiss their families goodbye!

prinzeugen

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

You mean like this?

So Thatcher asked Argentina to invade British territory so Britain could go to war with them just to improve Thatchers popularity???

Right....

Tigerbaby

such an echo chamber in here tonight.

yes we're right. of course we are dearie.

all those nasty Russians putting their borders close to NATO bases.

CinemaGuy45

prinzeugen wrote: »

So Thatcher asked Argentina to invade British territory so Britain could go to war with them just to improve Thatchers popularity???

Right....

A few old farts living on islands in the middle of nowhere it would have made no practical difference to let Argentina just run the things.

Sure they are as British as beans on toast.;)

Gatling

I see a change of direction from low count posters .

Irish Praetorian

Tigerbaby wrote: »

such an echo chamber in here tonight.

yes we're right. of course we are dearie.

all those nasty Russians putting their borders close to NATO bases.

Those nasty NATO bases, to their credit, at least have the decency to be on the correct side of those international borders, within countries that care to have them. Sadly when it comes to Russian troops, one cannot say the same thing.

namloc1980

Ukrainian president has sent a request to impose martial law to the Ukrainian parliament tomorrow. Even at the height of the crisis a few years ago and the annexation of Crimea they didn't impose martial law. He's behind in the polling for the presidential election due in early 2019 - elections can be postponed under martial law. Interesting context.

igCorcaigh

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

A few old farts living on islands in the middle of nowhere it would have made no practical difference to let Argentina just run the things.

Sure they are as British as beans on toast.;)

I remember those times as a kid. At 8 years, one of my friends were British. One of their family fought. Stupid war, as are they all.

Gatling

namloc1980 wrote: »

He's behind in the presidential election due in early 2019 - elections can be postponed under martial law. Interesting context.

So he sent the tug boat to invade russia so he in turn could impose martial law and in turn keep his job as president

Don't let the usual suspects read this we will never hear the end of it

igCorcaigh

namloc1980 wrote: »

Ukrainian president has sent a request to impose martial law to the Ukrainian parliament tomorrow. Even at the height of the crisis a few years ago and the annexation of Crimea they didn't impose martial law. He's behind in the polling for the presidential election due in early 2019 - elections can be postponed under martial law. Interesting context.

This seems to be true... Bad move. Ukraine should just lick their wounds and go home. Nobody wants armed conflict.

namloc1980

Gatling wrote: »

So he sent the tug boat to invade russia so he in turn could impose martial law and in turn keep his job as president .

Makes sense now that you put it together!

Seriously though broadcasting the country's defence committee meeting live on TV is playing up massively to the home audience. Bizarre carry on.

CinemaGuy45

Tigerbaby wrote: »

such an echo chamber in here tonight.

yes we're right. of course we are dearie.

all those nasty Russians putting their borders close to NATO bases.

Yes, dam Russians just looking for trouble.

prinzeugen

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

A few old farts living on islands in the middle of nowhere it would have made no practical difference to let Argentina just run the things.

Sure they are as British as beans on toast.;)

I have been to the Falklands so dont need a map. You should read up about who was running Argentina at the time. Lovely gentleman he was!

It was him that was desperate to increase his popularity not Thatcher.

Ten of Swords

Holodomor remembrance day was yesterday in Ukraine

Just sayin...



/TinfoilHat

gandalf

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I remember those times as a kid. At 8 years, one of my friends were British. One of their family fought. Stupid war, as are they all.

Yep I was twelve, I remember me and my school mates were all delighted when the Argentinians sunk a British Ship, thankfully I have matured since those days.

The ironic thing is that Brexit might make the Falklands being attached to Britain untenable.