Ireland v New Zealand match thread

stephen_n · 22-11-2018 09:49AM

Former Former wrote: »

This is something I've looked at a couple of times too. We lost two lineouts with Cronin on the pitch, but don't forget we'd also lost POM as well as Toner.

The first one went to Jordi Murphy in the middle. Murphy isn't bad in the lineout but jumping against Sam Whitelock? He must be giving up six inches there. And you can see that NZ have it sussed, they don't make any effort to get Retallick in the air, only Whitelock. They knew where it was going, maybe because it was exactly the same call as our previous lineout, so once they saw the way we lined up, they knew who to target.

The second lost lineout, the Barnhall Under 9s could have predicted where it was going, the body language of the Irish forwards screamed that it was going to Henderson and this time Retallick was out in front of Henderson because they read us like a book.

That's not to say Cronin's throws were good but it's definitely a systems weakness we have. We also have a problem in that Ryan is not a viable lineout target for whatever reason, nor is Stander, so our options are always limited.

Watching it back, a stat flashed up on the RTE coverage as Cronin is shaping to throw his first lineout, that Ireland were 10/0 on their own throw. Cronin then proceeds to lose two and eventually gets his third for a final stat of 11 won/2 lost which is repeated on ESPN stats. Fair enough.

But we know that we lost a lineout with Best (and Toner and POM) still on the field; remember Ringrose's grubber which ended with Kearney pushing Barrett into touch? A five-metre attacking lineout wasted and we definitely weren't 10/0 when Cronin arrived.

So what's the point? That the stats aren't always accurate and that our lineout issues go beyond the thrower. The first one doesn't matter, but we need to get a handle on the second.

James Ryan was talking on the Left Wing about how good Toners calling is, how he’s so calm and intelligent. Says Henderson is too, but we aren’t seeing that these last two weeks. That lineout to Murphy could be Cronins fault though, if you’re going to a smaller jumper at 4, the throw needs to be low and fast, not a lob. The one at the front was the call though, was obvious where it was going and Retalick got up in front of Henderson and faster too.

molloyjh · 22-11-2018 09:59AM

Yeah, Henderson is one of the common denominators in the 2 games where line outs were, or became, an issue. The other is no POM. Without Toner and POM our options at line out are reduced and if we have someone who isn’t that used to calling line outs at this level doing it in that scenario there is going to be a drop off. It’s one thing we need to develop before the RWC.

Shefwedfan · 22-11-2018 10:18AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

It's what the players call each other so why not us. I often here the players saying Earlset and Besty

That's because they are friends and work together for long period during the week

Put it this way.....if 2 people are walking down the street, joking, laughing and calling each other nickname, would you just walk over and join them and start calling them nickname as if you knew?

Christy42 · 22-11-2018 10:31AM

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, Henderson is one of the common denominators in the 2 games where line outs were, or became, an issue. The other is no POM. Without Toner and POM our options at line out are reduced and if we have someone who isn’t that used to calling line outs at this level doing it in that scenario there is going to be a drop off. It’s one thing we need to develop before the RWC.

I think Toner is better at calling the lineout and has the edge that he can call to himself while Henderson never gets the chance to call to Toner. So Henderson has to make better calls to get the same results to make up for the lack of Toner/POM options.

Henderson has called for the Lions. I am not sure it is the level that gets to him. It is just facing a better lineout unit and not being our best caller. I would guess maybe a but more time with the books and tape than needing game time here.

DellyBelly · 22-11-2018 11:01AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That's because they are friends and work together for long period during the week

Put it this way.....if 2 people are walking down the street, joking, laughing and calling each other nickname, would you just walk over and join them and start calling them nickname as if you knew?

But as I said I do feel I know them...I'm a big supporter of Ireland and have met some of the players on a few occasions past and present. I've even called them nicknames when asking for an autograph and they were happy to sign.

troyzer · 22-11-2018 11:22AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

But as I said I do feel I know them...I'm a big supporter of Ireland and have met some of the players on a few occasions past and present. I've even called them nicknames when asking for an autograph and they were happy to sign.

They probably thought your name was Twatty or Gob****ey.

Paul Smeenus · 22-11-2018 11:35AM

Christy42 wrote: »

I think Toner is better at calling the lineout and has the edge that he can call to himself while Henderson never gets the chance to call to Toner. So Henderson has to make better calls to get the same results to make up for the lack of Toner/POM options.

Henderson has called for the Lions. I am not sure it is the level that gets to him. It is just facing a better lineout unit and not being our best caller. I would guess maybe a but more time with the books and tape than needing game time here.

Agreed. It was last year that Hendo started against England and we had 14 successful lineouts against Itoje and Kruis.

He's our second-best lineout caller. Ryan can't call them (and isn't amazing jumping in them) and Beirne has a smattering of caps.

Now is the time for Hendo to get some pre-RWC practice, unless we just want to trust that nothing happens to Toner.

BonnieSituation · 22-11-2018 11:39AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Agreed. It was last year that Hendo started against England and we had 14 successful lineouts against Itoje and Kruis.

He's our second-best lineout caller. Ryan can't call them (and isn't amazing jumping in them) and Beirne has a smattering of caps.

Now is the time for Hendo to get some pre-RWC practice, unless we just want to trust that nothing happens to Toner.

Are you making such an outrageous claim that Ryan is actually a flawed human?

* shocked *

Shefwedfan · 22-11-2018 12:13PM

DellyBelly wrote: »

But as I said I do feel I know them...I'm a big supporter of Ireland and have met some of the players on a few occasions past and present. I've even called them nicknames when asking for an autograph and they were happy to sign.

I think it is time you got off boards and made a few friends.....real friends now, not rugby players

Paul Smeenus · 22-11-2018 12:40PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Are you making such an outrageous claim that Ryan is actually a flawed human?

* shocked *

Ah Jaysis. I wasn't thinking... RETRACT RETRACT RETRACT!!

FACT: TOUCHING THE HEM OF RYAN'S JERSEY CURES CANCER.

I think I've done enough to be safe...

molloyjh · 22-11-2018 12:41PM

Ah lads, there's no need to be so judgemental over a few nicknames. Chill out. There's absolutely no call for this to become abusive, which it has. Wind your necks in and show a bit of decency.

Heymans · 22-11-2018 12:48PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Kiwi fans, media, coaches and players are scouring the internet for these videos, gifs, tweets, memes etc. We are using them to fuel our rage. Our anger. Our hate. Over the next year it will build. It will flow through us.

By the time the RWC arrives, there will a dark force rising. A blackness like the rugby world has never seen before. There will be none of this "the Paddies are a great bunch" or "We don't mind losing to the Irish" or "they're nice and their fans are good fun". We will despise you like we do the Aussies, the Saffers and the English. Well maybe not as much as the English... but you get the idea. There will be vengeance and there will be blood!!

If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?

DellyBelly · 22-11-2018 12:55PM

troyzer wrote: »

They probably thought your name was Twatty or Gob****ey.

That's not very nice. But if it makes you feel better to say that about me then go ahead!

swiwi_ · 22-11-2018 12:58PM

Heymans wrote: »

If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?

Um. For the Kiwis who gave the ultimate sacrifice in WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War and so on.

Paul Smeenus · 22-11-2018 01:01PM

Heymans wrote: »

If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?

What an extraordinary question.

Elvisjuice · 22-11-2018 01:06PM

Heymans wrote: »

If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/all-blacks-captain-kieran-read-and-teammates-pay-tribute-fallen-kiwi-soldiers-monte-cassino

troyzer · 22-11-2018 01:08PM

Squidge rugby's stuff is pure class.

"Chicago was a sign that Ireland can beat anyone on their day. But Dublin, on Saturday, was a sign that Ireland can beat anyone on any day".

22-11-2018 01:20PM

"Peter O'Mahonay was everywhere" :pac:

stephen_n · 22-11-2018 03:55PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

Um. For the Kiwis who gave the ultimate sacrifice in WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War and so on.

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

What an extraordinary question.

Elvisjuice wrote: »

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/all-blacks-captain-kieran-read-and-teammates-pay-tribute-fallen-kiwi-soldiers-monte-cassino

Why even respond to such obvious trolling, let alone quoting it so others have to suffer it.

Yeah_Right · 22-11-2018 04:25PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Why even respond to such obvious trolling, let alone quoting it so others have to suffer it.

I found it quite amusing how the poster sometimes states things as if they are an authority on New Zealand and everything kiwi. I am often tempted to point out their wrongness but I hold back. And then they post rubbish like they did here and simply confirm that their knowledge of NZ and NZ rugby would fit on a Postit note :rolleyes:

Squidgy Black · 22-11-2018 04:34PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I found it quite amusing how the poster sometimes states things as if they are an authority on New Zealand and everything kiwi. I am often tempted to point out their wrongness but I hold back. And then they post rubbish like they did here and simply confirm that their knowledge of NZ and NZ rugby would fit on a Postit note :rolleyes:

But you're Australian, what input would you have?

monkeybutter · 22-11-2018 04:35PM

ǝɹǝɥ punoɹɐ puɐlǝǝZ ʍǝN uo ʎʇᴉɹoɥʇnɐ ʎluo ǝɥʇ ɯ,ᴉ

swiwi_ · 22-11-2018 05:38PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Kiwi fans, media, coaches and players are scouring the internet for these videos, gifs, tweets, memes etc. We are using them to fuel our rage. Our anger. Our hate. Over the next year it will build. It will flow through us.

You forgot Venjur's jokes :pac:

swiwi_ · 22-11-2018 05:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What does Brodie Retallick and puberty have in common?

Both result in dropped balls!

Your joke doesn't work Venjur. You first have to have the ball to drop it.

#Irish possession and territory

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. · 22-11-2018 05:42PM

Joking is a risky business in this forum. A lot of mean spirited nincompoops doing the rounds. There should be a sticky advising against humour.

22-11-2018 05:58PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

Your joke doesn't work Venjur. You first have to have the ball to drop it.

#Irish possession and territory

What do you get if you cross a children's playground swing with a toilet?

A Swiwee

:pac:

Paul Smeenus · 22-11-2018 06:05PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

Your joke doesn't work Venjur. You first have to have the ball to drop it.

#Irish possession and territory

You're saying Retallick doesn't actually have a ball...?

Wouldn't say that within his hearing if I were you.

swiwi_ · 22-11-2018 06:22PM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

You're saying Retallick doesn't actually have a ball...?

Wouldn't say that within his hearing if I were you.

Ah, you’d be grand Paul Smeenus

Elvisjuice · 22-11-2018 07:52PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Why even respond to such obvious trolling, let alone quoting it so others have to suffer it.

why highlight it even more ?

BonnieSituation · 22-11-2018 08:58PM

troyzer wrote: »

I have never watched his stuff before but boy that was Excellent.

Ireland v New Zealand match thread

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