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Ireland v New Zealand match thread

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    #1442
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    Tones not there at the time can used as an excuse for Crons poor lineouts but it's not all down to that. Besty is really needed at no 2. His age is a concern though

    Please stop with the made-up cringe-worthy nicknames.


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    #1443
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    Please stop with the made-up cringe-worthy nicknames.

    In fact, I'm going to talk to the mods about a rule for this.

    It's ridiculs - or should that be ridiculsy?? Or is the tones of my postey not making sensey? well hatesey that...


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    #1444
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    I have no clue as to why our line out looked so awful when Cronin came on. I know Toner was gone, but there should be no excuse.

    This is something I've looked at a couple of times too. We lost two lineouts with Cronin on the pitch, but don't forget we'd also lost POM as well as Toner.

    The first one went to Jordi Murphy in the middle. Murphy isn't bad in the lineout but jumping against Sam Whitelock? He must be giving up six inches there. And you can see that NZ have it sussed, they don't make any effort to get Retallick in the air, only Whitelock. They knew where it was going, maybe because it was exactly the same call as our previous lineout, so once they saw the way we lined up, they knew who to target.

    The second lost lineout, the Barnhall Under 9s could have predicted where it was going, the body language of the Irish forwards screamed that it was going to Henderson and this time Retallick was out in front of Henderson because they read us like a book.

    That's not to say Cronin's throws were good but it's definitely a systems weakness we have. We also have a problem in that Ryan is not a viable lineout target for whatever reason, nor is Stander, so our options are always limited.

    Watching it back, a stat flashed up on the RTE coverage as Cronin is shaping to throw his first lineout, that Ireland were 10/0 on their own throw. Cronin then proceeds to lose two and eventually gets his third for a final stat of 11 won/2 lost which is repeated on ESPN stats. Fair enough.

    But we know that we lost a lineout with Best (and Toner and POM) still on the field; remember Ringrose's grubber which ended with Kearney pushing Barrett into touch? A five-metre attacking lineout wasted and we definitely weren't 10/0 when Cronin arrived.

    So what's the point? That the stats aren't always accurate and that our lineout issues go beyond the thrower. The first one doesn't matter, but we need to get a handle on the second.


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    #1445
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,603 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    On stats. I noticed they don't count advantage that doesn't become a penalty as a penalty. So for example, Ireland had two in the first half, but three if you include the barret drop goal. Weird.


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    #1446
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    Steve wrote: »
    In fact, I'm going to talk to the mods about a rule for this.

    It's ridiculs - or should that be ridiculsy?? Or is the tones of my postey not making sensey? well hatesey that...

    It's what the players call each other so why not us. I often here the players saying Earlset and Besty


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    #1447
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    It's what the players call each other so why not us. I often here the players saying Earlset and Besty

    You are not their team mate tho


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    #1448
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    Try_harder wrote: »
    You are not their team mate tho

    Maybe not but I feel I know them well.


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    #1449
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    Maybe not but I feel I know them well.

    I hope you are joking


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    #1450
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    Try_harder wrote: »
    I hope you are joking

    Well they do use the slogan the team of us

    Anyway enough of this. Looking forward to the game on Saturday now


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    #1451
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,301 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Former Former wrote: »
    So what's the point? That the stats aren't always accurate and that our lineout issues go beyond the thrower. The first one doesn't matter, but we need to get a handle on the second.
    We had very similar problems against Argentina. They were getting their jumpers up in front of ours and it resulted in three lost and one messed up. We are either easy to read or we're using the same configurations too much. One of them was just not getting our jumper (Ryan) up quick enough. A lot of things need fixing there.


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    #1452
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Former Former wrote: »
    This is something I've looked at a couple of times too. We lost two lineouts with Cronin on the pitch, but don't forget we'd also lost POM as well as Toner.

    The first one went to Jordi Murphy in the middle. Murphy isn't bad in the lineout but jumping against Sam Whitelock? He must be giving up six inches there. And you can see that NZ have it sussed, they don't make any effort to get Retallick in the air, only Whitelock. They knew where it was going, maybe because it was exactly the same call as our previous lineout, so once they saw the way we lined up, they knew who to target.

    The second lost lineout, the Barnhall Under 9s could have predicted where it was going, the body language of the Irish forwards screamed that it was going to Henderson and this time Retallick was out in front of Henderson because they read us like a book.

    That's not to say Cronin's throws were good but it's definitely a systems weakness we have. We also have a problem in that Ryan is not a viable lineout target for whatever reason, nor is Stander, so our options are always limited.

    Watching it back, a stat flashed up on the RTE coverage as Cronin is shaping to throw his first lineout, that Ireland were 10/0 on their own throw. Cronin then proceeds to lose two and eventually gets his third for a final stat of 11 won/2 lost which is repeated on ESPN stats. Fair enough.

    But we know that we lost a lineout with Best (and Toner and POM) still on the field; remember Ringrose's grubber which ended with Kearney pushing Barrett into touch? A five-metre attacking lineout wasted and we definitely weren't 10/0 when Cronin arrived.

    So what's the point? That the stats aren't always accurate and that our lineout issues go beyond the thrower. The first one doesn't matter, but we need to get a handle on the second.
    James Ryan was talking on the Left Wing about how good Toners calling is, how he’s so calm and intelligent. Says Henderson is too, but we aren’t seeing that these last two weeks. That lineout to Murphy could be Cronins fault though, if you’re going to a smaller jumper at 4, the throw needs to be low and fast, not a lob. The one at the front was the call though, was obvious where it was going and Retalick got up in front of Henderson and faster too.


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    #1453
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yeah, Henderson is one of the common denominators in the 2 games where line outs were, or became, an issue. The other is no POM. Without Toner and POM our options at line out are reduced and if we have someone who isn’t that used to calling line outs at this level doing it in that scenario there is going to be a drop off. It’s one thing we need to develop before the RWC.


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    #1454
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    It's what the players call each other so why not us. I often here the players saying Earlset and Besty


    That's because they are friends and work together for long period during the week




    Put it this way.....if 2 people are walking down the street, joking, laughing and calling each other nickname, would you just walk over and join them and start calling them nickname as if you knew?


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    #1455
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭Christy42


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Yeah, Henderson is one of the common denominators in the 2 games where line outs were, or became, an issue. The other is no POM. Without Toner and POM our options at line out are reduced and if we have someone who isn’t that used to calling line outs at this level doing it in that scenario there is going to be a drop off. It’s one thing we need to develop before the RWC.
    I think Toner is better at calling the lineout and has the edge that he can call to himself while Henderson never gets the chance to call to Toner. So Henderson has to make better calls to get the same results to make up for the lack of Toner/POM options.

    Henderson has called for the Lions. I am not sure it is the level that gets to him. It is just facing a better lineout unit and not being our best caller. I would guess maybe a but more time with the books and tape than needing game time here.


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    #1456
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    That's because they are friends and work together for long period during the week




    Put it this way.....if 2 people are walking down the street, joking, laughing and calling each other nickname, would you just walk over and join them and start calling them nickname as if you knew?

    But as I said I do feel I know them...I'm a big supporter of Ireland and have met some of the players on a few occasions past and present. I've even called them nicknames when asking for an autograph and they were happy to sign.


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    #1457
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    But as I said I do feel I know them...I'm a big supporter of Ireland and have met some of the players on a few occasions past and present. I've even called them nicknames when asking for an autograph and they were happy to sign.

    They probably thought your name was Twatty or Gob****ey.


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    #1458
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I think Toner is better at calling the lineout and has the edge that he can call to himself while Henderson never gets the chance to call to Toner. So Henderson has to make better calls to get the same results to make up for the lack of Toner/POM options.

    Henderson has called for the Lions. I am not sure it is the level that gets to him. It is just facing a better lineout unit and not being our best caller. I would guess maybe a but more time with the books and tape than needing game time here.

    Agreed. It was last year that Hendo started against England and we had 14 successful lineouts against Itoje and Kruis.

    He's our second-best lineout caller. Ryan can't call them (and isn't amazing jumping in them) and Beirne has a smattering of caps.

    Now is the time for Hendo to get some pre-RWC practice, unless we just want to trust that nothing happens to Toner.


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    #1459
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Agreed. It was last year that Hendo started against England and we had 14 successful lineouts against Itoje and Kruis.

    He's our second-best lineout caller. Ryan can't call them (and isn't amazing jumping in them) and Beirne has a smattering of caps.

    Now is the time for Hendo to get some pre-RWC practice, unless we just want to trust that nothing happens to Toner.

    Are you making such an outrageous claim that Ryan is actually a flawed human?

    * shocked *


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    #1460
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    But as I said I do feel I know them...I'm a big supporter of Ireland and have met some of the players on a few occasions past and present. I've even called them nicknames when asking for an autograph and they were happy to sign.


    I think it is time you got off boards and made a few friends.....real friends now, not rugby players


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    #1461
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Are you making such an outrageous claim that Ryan is actually a flawed human?

    * shocked *

    Ah Jaysis. I wasn't thinking... RETRACT RETRACT RETRACT!!

    FACT: TOUCHING THE HEM OF RYAN'S JERSEY CURES CANCER.

    I think I've done enough to be safe...


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    #1462
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Ah lads, there's no need to be so judgemental over a few nicknames. Chill out. There's absolutely no call for this to become abusive, which it has. Wind your necks in and show a bit of decency.


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    #1463
    Heymans
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Heymans


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Kiwi fans, media, coaches and players are scouring the internet for these videos, gifs, tweets, memes etc. We are using them to fuel our rage. Our anger. Our hate. Over the next year it will build. It will flow through us.

    By the time the RWC arrives, there will a dark force rising. A blackness like the rugby world has never seen before. There will be none of this "the Paddies are a great bunch" or "We don't mind losing to the Irish" or "they're nice and their fans are good fun". We will despise you like we do the Aussies, the Saffers and the English. Well maybe not as much as the English... but you get the idea. There will be vengeance and there will be blood!!


    If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?


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    #1464
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    troyzer wrote: »
    They probably thought your name was Twatty or Gob****ey.

    That's not very nice. But if it makes you feel better to say that about me then go ahead!


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    #1465
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Heymans wrote: »
    If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?

    Um. For the Kiwis who gave the ultimate sacrifice in WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War and so on.


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    #1466
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Heymans wrote: »
    If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?

    What an extraordinary question.


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    #1467
    Elvisjuice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Elvisjuice


    Heymans wrote: »
    If the Kiwis hate the English so much whats with the poppy on the arm for the Autumn Internationals?


    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/all-blacks-captain-kieran-read-and-teammates-pay-tribute-fallen-kiwi-soldiers-monte-cassino


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    #1468
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer




    Squidge rugby's stuff is pure class.

    "Chicago was a sign that Ireland can beat anyone on their day. But Dublin, on Saturday, was a sign that Ireland can beat anyone on any day".


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    #1469
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    "Peter O'Mahonay was everywhere" :pac:


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    #1470
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    Um. For the Kiwis who gave the ultimate sacrifice in WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War and so on.
    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    What an extraordinary question.
    Elvisjuice wrote: »
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/all-blacks-captain-kieran-read-and-teammates-pay-tribute-fallen-kiwi-soldiers-monte-cassino

    Why even respond to such obvious trolling, let alone quoting it so others have to suffer it.


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    #1471
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Why even respond to such obvious trolling, let alone quoting it so others have to suffer it.

    I found it quite amusing how the poster sometimes states things as if they are an authority on New Zealand and everything kiwi. I am often tempted to point out their wrongness but I hold back. And then they post rubbish like they did here and simply confirm that their knowledge of NZ and NZ rugby would fit on a Postit note :rolleyes:


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