Ireland v New Zealand match thread

molloyjh · 21-11-2018 11:52am

troyzer wrote: »

We're playing in Murrayfield this season.

Shut up you with your facts.

Lusocu · 21-11-2018 12:26pm

Wailin wrote: »

Yes it was a great win and yes it was a piece of history. But lets be realistic. NZ were at the end of a long tough season and it showed. Uncharacteristic handling errors imo are a big indicator.

We beat them and they have no excuses. In Chicago arguments can be made that they were missing some players and we caught them on the hop. This was a fully legitimate win. There wasn't bad weather that's often a leveler in rugby matches like England and New Zealand the week before. Errors were forced from New Zealand through our pressure. For example Whitelock made a deliberate knockon by the try line and he should have been yellow carded. We had our own bad luck too with Kearney knocking on in the process of a try. Our defence was outstanding covering the breath of the pitch to our outside channels where historically we are vulnerable. Excellent decision making by Ringrose to shoot out of the line to cut off a passages of attacking play. He had a quiet game on the surface but in defence was exemplary. We're at the beginning of our season and that comes with its own set of disadvantages. We have to give credit where credit is due. We were missing one of our crucial players in Conor Murray. We're a better team now we have strenght In depth to replace injured Dan Leavy, O Brien, and Henshaw. In the world cup only can all teams aim to peak at that point.

troyzer · 21-11-2018 12:27pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Shut up you with your facts.

Soz.

21-11-2018 12:29pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Did this Whitelock clearout get mentioned before?

https://www.givemesport.com/1418025-sam-whitelock-lucky-to-avoid-punishment-as-ireland-see-off-new-zealand?autoplay=on&utm_source=outbrain-rss&utm_medium=outbrain-rss&utm_campaign=outbrain-rss&utm_term=007b19709ebe7943bd1d344ee23a065ad0

Healy lucky to escape injury from that.

Happened right in front of Barnes and if I recall correctly he was happy with it and said as much and play on.

Looks bad but World Rugby have decided to tackle concussion and head injuries this Autumn by pretending THEY NEVER HAPPENED.

21-11-2018 1:17pm

Wailin wrote: »

Christ I can see this thread being dragged on for months. And we harp on about how unbearable the English are when they win anything. This is as bad.

Yes it was a great win and yes it was a piece of history. But lets be realistic. NZ were at the end of a long tough season and it showed. Uncharacteristic handling errors imo are a big indicator.

People talking about a NZ/Ireland final next year...seriously guys? We have a very tough Scotland team to manoeuvre first, how often have they beaten Ireland when big underdogs. Then a potential quarter final against SA? We'll just breeze through that right?

It's pretty embarrassing how obnoxious the Irish fans are becoming, youtube is crawling with idiots screaming we're the best team in the world and AB beaters etc. Where's the humility and dignity gone? We had a great year but lets not get carried away ffs!

Saying its the end of their season is meaningless. You could claim theyre more settled as they've played together all year. We only were hobbled together recently. It works both ways.

Zzippy · 21-11-2018 1:20pm

troyzer wrote: »

We're playing in Murrayfield this season.

molloyjh wrote: »

Shut up you with your facts.

Haha, love it. Molloy going to the trouble of researching all those stats and then forgetting to check we weren't actually playing at home this year...

stephen_n · 21-11-2018 1:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Happened right in front of Barnes and if I recall correctly he was happy with it and said as much and play on.

Looks bad but World Rugby have decided to tackle concussion and head injuries this Autumn by pretending THEY NEVER HAPPENED.

It’s contact with the head for definite, it seems bizarre that it’s not being citied. World Rugby really need to do something as there’s no consistency what so ever about what is and isn’t legal around contact with the head. I would also say that was malicious too, as Healy was off his feet and away from the ball.

errlloyd · 21-11-2018 1:31pm

stephen_n wrote: »

It’s contact with the head for definite, it seems bizarre that it’s not being citied. World Rugby really need to do something as there’s no consistency what so ever about what is and isn’t legal around contact with the head. I would also say that was malicious too, as Healy was off his feet and away from the ball.

Yeah Barnes immediately said it was okay.

stephen_n · 21-11-2018 1:36pm

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah Barnes immediately said it was okay.

That’s one of those ones I’d really like to be able to ask him for his rational on the decision.

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. · 21-11-2018 2:19pm

Finally rewatched the game last night. Regarding the box kick at the end, what do people think would have been the ideal tactic at the time? When I watched it live I was convinced they were going to turn it over, kick for touch and score a try off of a lineout, but obviously they came a little too close for comfort to scoring a try from kicking back possession too. I'm wondering if the box kick wasn't the least bad of the two options though?

molloyjh · 21-11-2018 2:24pm

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »

Finally rewatched the game last night. Regarding the box kick at the end, what do people think would have been the ideal tactic at the time? When I watched it live I was convinced they were going to turn it over, kick for touch and score a try off of a lineout, but obviously they came a little too close for comfort to scoring a try from kicking back possession too. I'm wondering if the box kick wasn't the least bad of the two options though?

I think it was the right call. We'd been pinged (fairly harshly IMO) for going off our feet at a ruck already and we saw what happened in 2013, and more recently in the Munster-Glasgow game. Trying to run down the clock from there was very risky. NZ hadn't gotten into a real try scoring position all game so backing our defence from close to their 22 was probably the safer bet compared to possibly conceding a penalty and having to defend a line out in or around our own 22. But there were pros and cons to both, and with the benefit of hindsight it's fairly easy for us to judge it now. Had NZ scored a try off it then would our views be different I wonder?

21-11-2018 2:28pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I think it was the right call. We'd been pinged (fairly harshly IMO) for going off our feet at a ruck already and we saw what happened in 2013, and more recently in the Munster-Glasgow game. Trying to run down the clock from there was very risky. NZ hadn't gotten into a real try scoring position all game so backing our defence from close to their 22 was probably the safer bet compared to possibly conceding a penalty and having to defend a line out in or around our own 22. But there were pros and cons to both, and with the benefit of hindsight it's fairly easy for us to judge it now. Had NZ scored a try off it then would our views be different I wonder?

It's best to dispel results based thinking yet ironically rugby is all about results

21-11-2018 2:49pm

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »

Finally rewatched the game last night. Regarding the box kick at the end, what do people think would have been the ideal tactic at the time? When I watched it live I was convinced they were going to turn it over, kick for touch and score a try off of a lineout, but obviously they came a little too close for comfort to scoring a try from kicking back possession too. I'm wondering if the box kick wasn't the least bad of the two options though?

From where the kick was taken to the try line was a shorter distance than the ground the All blacks gained from the first breakdown after gathering to where they spilled the ball.

Kicking to touch was the other option but we would have made less ground and they would have had a full restart to set up an attacking position so I think the kick in behind was the better of the two kicking options.

Had we been turned over then the All Blacks are counter attacking from just outside our 22. Dangerous.

Had we spilled then the All Blacks have a reset just outside our 22, also Dangerous.

Had we given away a penalty then the All Blacks have a line out on our 5m line which is very dangerous.

Of all the options the one I believe was least likely to result in an All Black score was moving the ball to between half way and their 10m line which is roughly where it ended up.

It left them a lot of work to get near our 22 and the effort to get there resulted in them spilling the ball.

I have absolutely no question at all in my mind that it was the right thing to do. I would be quite confident that Joe is of the same opinion - though I'd imagine he'd have looked for an extra 5 - 10m on the kick which is one of the reasons why Murray continues to be the starting Irish 9.

Buer · 21-11-2018 2:54pm

If it's the kick I'm thinking of, I'm not sure your positioning of things on the pitch is quite right there, Venjur (unless I'm misreading). McGrath kicked the ball from halfway. It landed halfway between the 10m line and the NZ 22.

prawnsambo · 21-11-2018 4:13pm

Buer wrote: »

If it's the kick I'm thinking of, I'm not sure your positioning of things on the pitch is quite right there, Venjur (unless I'm misreading). McGrath kicked the ball from halfway. It landed halfway between the 10m line and the NZ 22.

The kick was from between halfway and the ten. Barrett caight it about five metres inside his own ten. So it went about 20m.

Edit: It took NZ 16 phases to get into our 22 from there and on the 17th, Retallick knocked on, just outside our 22.

bilston · 21-11-2018 5:07pm

I'm not exaggerating when I say I've watched Stockdale's try about 30 or 40 times since Sat.

The haters can hate all they like (all 4 of them), but that was an incredible night for Irish rugby. Forget the WC, take the occasion in isolation and enjoy it for what it is. Rugby is different to other sports. These TEST matches matter...they can't be compared to football friendlies at all. Apart from anything else rugby isn't a sport where you can give anything less than 100% otherwise you get hammered or, worse, injured.

I was thinking of my grandad at the final whistle on Saturday night. He hardly missed an Ireland match in 50 years and never saw Ireland beat the All Blacks. I'd love for him to have seen it. And I'm sure I'm not alone, that's down to over a century of trying, and now we've finally done it (in Ireland) then absolutely we are going to shout it from the rooftops. I suspect most of the begrudgers are Premier League babies, are under 25 and don't really remember the "naughty nineties" of Irish rugby.

DellyBelly · 21-11-2018 5:30pm

bilston wrote: »

I'm not exaggerating when I say I've watched Stockdale's try about 30 or 40 times since Sat.

I'm the same. What I really like about it was that Jaco tried it about 5 minutes before and was blocked down but that didn't deter him from trying it again and he got his just rewards. I also love the way the rest of the team ran to celebrate with him...

prawnsambo · 21-11-2018 5:38pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

I'm the same. What I really like about it was that Jaco tried it about 5 minutes before and was blocked down but that didn't deter him from trying it again and he got his just rewards. I also love the way the rest of the team ran to celebrate with him...

It was a very special try. The minute Sexton switched to Aki and out to Stockdale, I was riveted. It was so quickly and accurately done that I knew it would have NZ stretched. The only worry I had was what sort of bounce Stockdale would get and it wasn't great as it bounced about two or three metres outside his running line. But he adjusted well and the catch was excellent.

swiwi_ · 21-11-2018 6:23pm

blackcard wrote: »

I think this was a better performance than Chicago. NZ came into this game knowing that they were playing number 2 in the world so no complacency. This was a ferocious match and Ireland were out on their feet at the end but NZ made mistakes too because of the pressure they were put under. The only negative was losing lineouts at crucial times. Fair play to the NZ team and their fans on Planet Rugby forum, absolute class in defeat. Never thought I would see the day when we beat NZ never mind beat then twice

Much like Irish fans, I don't think Kiwis mind acknowledging when we are beaten fair and square. Ireland played exceptionally well, and I think Kiwis were in admiration. Irish fans are also generally good winners, so there is not the antipathy we reserve for the English, who don't really do humble in victory.

I was in Bristol for the match, the bar I was in was mostly full of English (and a Swiss rugby team...) but I spotted one green jersey. So I just went up to to him after the match, shook his hand, said well played, and see you in the final in Japan. The guy was very sporting, obviously happy, and wished me all the best. It's one of the nice things about rugby - fiercely fought games, but good camaraderie after the match.

Yeah_Right · 21-11-2018 7:31pm

Wailin wrote: »

It's pretty embarrassing how obnoxious the Irish fans are becoming, youtube is crawling with idiots screaming we're the best team in the world and AB beaters etc. Where's the humility and dignity gone? We had a great year but lets not get carried away ffs!

Kiwi fans, media, coaches and players are scouring the internet for these videos, gifs, tweets, memes etc. We are using them to fuel our rage. Our anger. Our hate. Over the next year it will build. It will flow through us.

By the time the RWC arrives, there will a dark force rising. A blackness like the rugby world has never seen before. There will be none of this "the Paddies are a great bunch" or "We don't mind losing to the Irish" or "they're nice and their fans are good fun". We will despise you like we do the Aussies, the Saffers and the English. Well maybe not as much as the English... but you get the idea. There will be vengeance and there will be blood!!

who_me · 21-11-2018 7:58pm

bilston wrote: »

I'm not exaggerating when I say I've watched Stockdale's try about 30 or 40 times since Sat.

The haters can hate all they like (all 4 of them), but that was an incredible night for Irish rugby. Forget the WC, take the occasion in isolation and enjoy it for what it is. Rugby is different to other sports. These TEST matches matter...they can't be compared to football friendlies at all. Apart from anything else rugby isn't a sport where you can give anything less than 100% otherwise you get hammered or, worse, injured.

I was thinking of my grandad at the final whistle on Saturday night. He hardly missed an Ireland match in 50 years and never saw Ireland beat the All Blacks. I'd love for him to have seen it. And I'm sure I'm not alone, that's down to over a century of trying, and now we've finally done it (in Ireland) then absolutely we are going to shout it from the rooftops. I suspect most of the begrudgers are Premier League babies, are under 25 and don't really remember the "naughty nineties" of Irish rugby.

Just the Stockdale try? I think I've watched the entire game that many times, though fast-forwarding in bits and rewinding and replaying others like there's no tomorrow. Some bits of the video will be worn out like the money shots of VHS pornos!

The more I watch it, the better it gets. The ferocity of the hits. Contesting everything. The turnovers. The reactions to the turnovers. Contesting everything. The speed and quality of the clean-outs. The scramble defence. Contesting everything. Ireland being first to every loose ball (for a change!) The All Blacks being more rattled than I've seen them in years. (Possibly because Ireland were contesting everything, did I mention that?)

Minor highlight: at one of POM's turnovers (where he 'may have been' leaning slightly on his hands), look at the All Blacks in the same ruck - it might be Retallick and Coles? Both lying down and look out of it, one gets up onto his knees and pushes head-first - weakly - into the side of the ruck. Talk about role reversal!

Funny highlight at a ruck:
Barnes: "I'll tell you when it's out!"
[random All Blacks voice]: "..now?"
[ball is hoofed high into the stand]
Barnes: "It's out"

Cheeky highlight:
At the penalty for Sexton's high challenge, Sexton was slow to release, Coles pulls the ball from Sexton's hands and bopped him in the face with it. Nothing malicious whatsoever, but players have been carded for less than that, or at least penalties have been reversed.

Neil3030 · 21-11-2018 8:14pm

Kiwi fans have indeed been a class act since the match. I would question whether the bulk of people obnoxiously claiming Ireland are the best in the world are just AB haters from other countries trying to troll. Or worse, soccer fans.

typhoony · 21-11-2018 8:29pm

I Know the world ranking stats inform us that New Zealand and Ireland are good bit ahead of the rest but in fact I think it's a lot closer than that, I certainly think New Zealand are not as unbeatable as they were 3/4 years ago. as far as our own progression in the last 12 months we've had some close games that could have gone either way, the other teams are at our heels no doubt about it. I'm certainly not confident come 6 nations that we'll definitely beat any of the teams other than Italy.

BonnieSituation · 21-11-2018 8:37pm

who_me wrote: »

Just the Stockdale try? I think I've watched the entire game that many times, though fast-forwarding in bits and rewinding and replaying others like there's no tomorrow. Some bits of the video will be worn out like the money shots of VHS pornos!

The more I watch it, the better it gets. The ferocity of the hits. Contesting everything. The turnovers. The reactions to the turnovers. Contesting everything. The speed and quality of the clean-outs. The scramble defence. Contesting everything. Ireland being first to every loose ball (for a change!) The All Blacks being more rattled than I've seen them in years. (Possibly because Ireland were contesting everything, did I mention that?)

Minor highlight: at one of POM's turnovers (where he 'may have been' leaning slightly on his hands), look at the All Blacks in the same ruck - it might be Retallick and Coles? Both lying down and look out of it, one gets up onto his knees and pushes head-first - weakly - into the side of the ruck. Talk about role reversal!

Funny highlight at a ruck:
Barnes: "I'll tell you when it's out!"
[random All Blacks voice]: "..now?"
[ball is hoofed high into the stand]
Barnes: "It's out"

Cheeky highlight:
At the penalty for Sexton's high challenge, Sexton was slow to release, Coles pulls the ball from Sexton's hands and bopped him in the face with it. Nothing malicious whatsoever, but players have been carded for less than that, or at least penalties have been reversed.

Great post.

Watched it back on Sunday. The whole of the coverage. But the bit in bold was something that stuck out. Larfed heartily.

The ref mic was great for picking up the odd thing like say, Rory shouting at Johnny.

The more I think back, as bilston and the rest of you have alluded to, it really was a.remarkable game.from both sides. But we really were astonishingly good. And there's nothing wrong with enjoying that.

Dubinusa · 21-11-2018 10:48pm

I've watched it 7 times. The fitness levels are thru the roof. Both sides put it all out there.
Our center defense was a masterclass. Ringrose is just exceptional and his partnership with Aki was incredible. They both stepped up and where flawless.
Beauden Barrett is an exceptional player. Everytime he touched the ball, I held my breath. He's just extraordinary.
I have no clue as to why our line out looked so awful when Cronin came on. I know Toner was gone, but there should be no excuse.

21-11-2018 10:51pm

Donal Lenihan really enjoyed that game of rugby.

errlloyd · 21-11-2018 11:23pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Donal Lenihan really enjoyed that game of rugby.

If you watch the rte coverage on YouTube at double speed him and high sound hilarious.

Billy86 · 21-11-2018 11:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just realised, the next time we lose a game this place is going to be an absolute shít show.

The amount of people who are angry that other people are happy about a big result is startling. McKenna said it in the first 10 seconds of his interview on against the head. "What we've been subjected to since the weekend" - it's the language of someone who had a grudge to begin with and he's far from alone.

People are awful precious about themselves.

That attitude can also play a really negative effect on the teams mentality too I would imagine,and on the psyche of young Irish athletes in general feeling they have to constantly "just be happy to be here" rather than aiming for the highest highs, and celebrating accordingly.

I've soured on Conor McGregor a lot in the last two years or so, but he deserves credit for not buying into that for a second, and the younger rugby lads are looking similar - Furlong, Ryan, Stockdale, Larmour, Leavy etc. Yes some of the older heads have it too, but it's almost uniform among the younger guys. They showed it more than ever the other day and are in no way cocky but have this "f*** you, I don't care than you're NZ with your Haka, mystique, back to back WCs, all time greats and on and on... we came to win, we are going to win, and we're going to do it our way" mentality that is just incredible to see.

Long may it continue, and long may the pathetic naysayers wallow in relative obscurity and silence.

Steve · 21-11-2018 11:53pm

Billy86 wrote: »

That attitude can also play a really negative effect on the teams mentality too I would imagine,and on the psyche of young Irish athletes in general feeling they have to constantly "just be happy to be here" rather than aiming for the highest highs, and celebrating accordingly.

I've soured on Conor McGregor a lot in the last two years or so, but he deserves credit for not buying into that for a second, and the younger rugby lads are looking similar - Furlong, Ryan, Stockdale, Larmour, Leavy etc. Yes some of the older heads have it too, but it's almost uniform among the younger guys. They showed it more than ever the other day and are in no way cocky but have this "f*** you, I don't care than you're NZ with your Haka, mystique, back to back WCs, all time greats and on and on... we came to win, we are going to win, and we're going to do it our way" mentality that is just incredible to see.

Long may it continue, and long may the pathetic naysayers wallow in relative obscurity and silence.

Well said.

DellyBelly · 21-11-2018 11:55pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

I've watched it 7 times. The fitness levels are thru the roof. Both sides put it all out there.
Our center defense was a masterclass. Ringrose is just exceptional and his partnership with Aki was incredible. They both stepped up and where flawless.
Beauden Barrett is an exceptional player. Everytime he touched the ball, I held my breath. He's just extraordinary.
I have no clue as to why our line out looked so awful when Cronin came on. I know Toner was gone, but there should be no excuse.

Tones not there at the time can used as an excuse for Crons poor lineouts but it's not all down to that. Besty is really needed at no 2. His age is a concern though

Ireland v New Zealand match thread

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