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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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  • #62
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    green shoots wrote: »
    It's really bad. Having cars speeding through that street where people are dodging each other on the cramped footpath isn't going to end well. Dame St too. Way too small for pedestrians. This city and government are hopeless.

    It'll take someone getting killed for something to be done


  • #63
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,396 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    cgcsb wrote: »
    It'll take someone getting killed for something to be done

    Numerous cyclist deaths on the Quays suggest that even that won't be enough to spur DCC into action.


  • #64
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    SeanW wrote: »
    I take it you are both cyclists? Telling everyone to "get on your bike" isn't a solution to traffic problems and slow commutes. It never has been, anywhere and it never will be.

    That's not what I said. Getting our cycling modal share up to 40% should be a goal. That doesn't mean I'm 'telling everyone to get on your bike'. Most commutes in greater Dublin are shorter than 10km, making cycling very attractive. We should be aiming for a high modal share for bikes.

    Is cycling the ONLY solution, no, but it's a large chunk of it. It's also the cheapest way to bring about real change. Unlike those other Cities, Dublin is effectively ruled by culchies that use it as a cash cow. They don't want to spend money in Dublin on infrastructure. Even our local property tax, is 'redistributed' to other parts of the country, in the interest of 'fairness'. I think Dublin is just going to have to gain some form of self-governance before any serious money will be spent on the City.
    SeanW wrote: »
    :(
    Dublin has been removing space from people who drive. Not, perhaps as much as some might like but it has been happening, yet continuously everything gets slower and everyone's commute gets longer. Why?

    I don't think that's accurate. The little road space that has been re-allocated from cars to sustainable modes in the VERY recent past has, in effect, been taken over by cars. We live in a land where virtually no rules are enforced. Even the college green, time-limited, bus gate is only theoretical. The new 24 bus lane on the north quays is also only theoretical, it's usually chockers with Audis.
    Bicycle lanes, painted on, are either parking areas, used by hazzard light enthusiasts or they are just painted on over half a car lane.


  • #65
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 24,013 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    cgcsb wrote: »
    That's not what I said. Getting our cycling modal share up to 40% should be a goal. That doesn't mean I'm 'telling everyone to get on your bike'. Most commutes in greater Dublin are shorter than 10km, making cycling very attractive. We should be aiming for a high modal share for bikes.

    Is cycling the ONLY solution, no, but it's a large chunk of it. It's also the cheapest way to bring about real change. Unlike those other Cities, Dublin is effectively ruled by culchies that use it as a cash cow. They don't want to spend money in Dublin on infrastructure. Even our local property tax, is 'redistributed' to other parts of the country, in the interest of 'fairness'. I think Dublin is just going to have to gain some form of self-governance before any serious money will be spent on the City.



    I don't think that's accurate. The little road space that has been re-allocated from cars to sustainable modes in the VERY recent past has, in effect, been taken over by cars. We live in a land where virtually no rules are enforced. Even the college green, time-limited, bus gate is only theoretical. The new 24 bus lane on the north quays is also only theoretical, it's usually chockers with Audis.
    Bicycle lanes, painted on, are either parking areas, used by hazzard light enthusiasts or they are just painted on over half a car lane.

    Where were all the cyclists today?

    Usually I get obstructed by a few walking around the city centre but they all seem to have disappeared. What happened?


  • #66
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,396 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where were all the cyclists today?

    Usually I get obstructed by a few walking around the city centre but they all seem to have disappeared. What happened?

    I saw plenty of them when I cycled in this morning. A lot fewer Dublin Bikes users thankfully, but still plenty of actual cyclists.

    It's not really that bad cycling in the rain, as long as your employer offers changing facilities in the office you just wear cycling clothes and then change into dry clothes when you get in.

    The only issues I find with rain cycling is that I have all-weather road tires, and you just cannot hit a manhole cover on those things while turning sharply, or it's like ice.


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  • #67
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where were all the cyclists today?

    Fewer cyclists today, sure, but you don't often get rain as heavy as today. Yesterday and today were the first times in months that I've had to change out of wet gear at the end of my trip.

    I don't want to think how much longer a bus or car journey would have taken today.


  • #68
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where were all the cyclists today?

    Usually I get obstructed by a few walking around the city centre but they all seem to have disappeared. What happened?

    I was cycling anyway. They probably were dissuaded by the rain and the fact that 'cycle lanes' are infact drainage for the carriageway, owing to poor design and increased perception of danger.


  • #69
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where were all the cyclists today?
    where were the cars yesterday after the N4 had that crash?


  • #70
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,136 ✭✭✭✭ ED E


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where were all the cyclists today?

    Have a read, plenty still on the bike today.

    https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%23NTcommuter&src=typd

    DrZN-aeWsAAx635.jpg:medium


  • #71
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 24,622 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where were all the cyclists today?

    Usually I get obstructed by a few walking around the city centre but they all seem to have disappeared. What happened?
    I was the one in the bike lane, passing the long line of cars going nowhere. With the leaves blocking the drains, there was lots of pooled water, so my runners were soaked, for the second time this year. All the gear is drying out now, and I brought spare socks, just in case.

    Looks like it should be drier for the home journey.


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  • #72
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    bringing spare socks is the key. Just let your stuff dry in the office and wait for all the numpties to arrive in their cars, if ever.


  • #73
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 24,622 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    cgcsb wrote: »
    bringing spare socks is the key. Just let your stuff dry in the office and wait for all the numpties to arrive in their cars, if ever.
    The socks were a help for sure, but dry socks into wet runners doesn't get you too far!


    For next time, I'm going to make sure that I have a newspaper in the office, so I can stuff the runners in the morning and draw out the moisture.


  • #74
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ snotboogie


    On the rain issue, are sheltered cycle lanes a possibility here? I was in Seville recently and enjoyed their fully segregated bike lanes. If you had some lanes with full segregation, wouldn’t covering them be a relatively inexpensive addition that would make them much more attractive. I’m thinking less like the high spec Berlin solution and more like how Singapore shelters it’s walkways: https://goo.gl/images/gKy4PC


  • #75
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    It would actually be a hugely expensive addition.


  • #76
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    snotboogie wrote: »
    On the rain issue, are sheltered cycle lanes a possibility here? I was in Seville recently and enjoyed their fully segregated bike lanes. If you had some lanes with full segregation, wouldn’t covering them be a relatively inexpensive addition that would make them much more attractive. I’m thinking less like the high spec Berlin solution and more like how Singapore shelters it’s walkways: https://goo.gl/images/gKy4PC

    Covering Dublin's few usable cycle lanes from the rain is like polishing sh1te. For the money it'd cost we could vastly increase the km length of usable cycle lanes.


  • #77
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Covering Dublin's few usable cycle lanes from the rain is like polishing sh1te. For the money it'd cost we could vastly increase the km length of usable cycle lanes.

    Yeah, it'd be cheaper to buy everyone in Dublin rain gear.


  • #78
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Yeah, it'd be cheaper to buy everyone in Dublin rain gear.

    Also it rains far less often than is commonly assumed in Ireland, especially in the east. Although it rains 200 days a year in Dublin, if it rains only once for 10 minutes in a 24 hour period, that counts as a "rainy day." The chances of you being on your bike then are slim.


  • #79
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    For next time, I'm going to make sure that I have a newspaper in the office, so I can stuff the runners in the morning and draw out the moisture.

    I used to dry my runners off by putting them on my computer in work to dry, but they've replaced it with a much smaller more energy-efficient one that doesn't vent warm air anymore so now I don't have that option!


  • #80
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Also it rains far less often than is commonly assumed in Ireland, especially in the east. Although it rains 200 days a year in Dublin, if it rains only once for 10 minutes in a 24 hour period, that counts as a "rainy day." The chances of you being on your bike then are slim.

    200 days you say?? I wouldn't have thought that. I'd say I'm cycling in the rain on less than 10% of my commutes.


  • #81
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,396 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    cgcsb wrote: »
    200 days you say?? I wouldn't have thought that. I'd say I'm cycling in the rain on less than 10% of my commutes.

    I think that's to do with the second part of that post ;)

    Average of 130 days where there is more than 1.0mm of rain.


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  • #82
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I think that's to do with the second part of that post ;)

    Average of 130 days where there is more than 1.0mm of rain.

    Yes indeed, I'm just surprised it's that high. I guess it must rain a lot in the middle of the night, without me noticing.


  • #83
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭ RayCun


    There was plenty of rain this morning, but most of it before or after my journey. Some rain while I cycled but I was dry when I got in.
    There are a lot of days like that.


  • #84
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,396 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Yes indeed, I'm just surprised it's that high. I guess it must rain a lot in the middle of the night, without me noticing.

    I think it's just that it's fairly rare for Dublin to get a constantly rainy day, we're more likely to have convective showery rain. So because you're likely only cycling for about 1 hour or so a day, and only on weekdays, the probability is pretty low that it's going to coincide with rain.


  • #85
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    Posted this before but here's some stats http://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-weather/


  • #86
    redfacedbear
    Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭ redfacedbear


    'It's the only way forward': Madrid Bans polluting vehicles from city centre

    Pre-2000 Petrol vehicles and pre-2006 Diesels banned from the city centre in an effort to reduce NO2 pollution. Only zero emission vehicles will have their current access unchanged (or at least that's my reading of it).


  • #87
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭ Bray Head


    I just don't think the air quality argument is particularly convincing for Ireland.

    Ireland does not have big cities, and all cities are on the coast and are therefore reasonably windy. There aren't many tall buildings to trap poor air either.

    Build-ups of particulates don't really take place the way you would have in a big German city with lots of skyscrapers on a cold, still day in January.

    For NO2, for example, you don't see breaches of threshold concentration of 40 µg/m3 in Ireland, and it's regularly breached all over Europe. See here.



    I think there is a very good case for congestion pricing in Dublin city centre. But that would be to make the city a more attractive place to live and work. Air quality would be a bonus, but it wouldn't be the main factor.


  • #88
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 24,622 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    Bray Head wrote: »
    I just don't think the air quality argument is particularly convincing for Ireland.
    The EEPA reported that we had over 1,500 premature deaths due to air quality each year.


  • #89
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Bray Head wrote: »
    I just don't think the air quality argument is particularly convincing for Ireland.

    Ireland does not have big cities, and all cities are on the coast and are therefore reasonably windy. There aren't many tall buildings to trap poor air either.

    Dublin regularly breaches WHO emission guidelines:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0914/993808-air-pollution/

    Now admittedly heating is more the cause of this then cars. But cars certainly don't help and I believe the effect is much worse locally along busy city center streets.

    The fact that last year 75% of new car sales were Diesel, one of the highest figures in Europe is just mad and is certainly making things much worse.


  • #90
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,396 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    Well of course, ironically we're all mad for diesel cars because of the policies of the Green Party's time in government...


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  • #91
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 24,622 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    bk wrote: »
    Bray Head wrote: »
    I just don't think the air quality argument is particularly convincing for Ireland.

    Ireland does not have big cities, and all cities are on the coast and are therefore reasonably windy. There aren't many tall buildings to trap poor air either.

    Dublin regularly breaches WHO emission guidelines:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0914/993808-air-pollution/


    The fact that last year 75% of new car sales were Diesel, one of the highest figures in Europe is just mad and is certainly making things much worse.
    Including the new Garda Roads Policing fleet.


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