Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Tipperary animal lover · 19-11-2018 02:41PM

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

gimli2112 · 19-11-2018 02:43PM

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

How people haven't been killed by this "service" offered by Irish Rail I'll never know.

19-11-2018 02:47PM

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

It not really about a solution its a chance to for a resentment filled rant against older people, and mothers with children plus it include the disabled who have a job and a free bus pass but don't look disabled, using public transport at the same time as commuters.

Caliden · 19-11-2018 02:48PM

You pay 3k of your net wages to travel to work via train?

Take into account how long your travel time is and that just doesn't make economical sense.

Would you not consider taking a pay cut for a job that's closer and doesn't cost you 3k a year?

PlaneSpeeking · 19-11-2018 02:49PM

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

Sure thing, I'll add another grand a year on to the four I currently pay.

But then you've got people who will get in your seat anyway and not move added to Irish's rail's lovely habit of rarely putting the names up on seats.

Always the ones who contribute in this country get screwed. God bless Eire. :rolleyes:

PlaneSpeeking · 19-11-2018 02:52PM

Caliden wrote: »

You pay 3k of your net wages to travel to work via train?

Take into account how long your travel time is and that just doesn't make economical sense.

Would you not consider taking a pay cut for a job that's closer and doesn't cost you 3k a year?

Sure i'll just rip up the 11 years I've worked in this job, the 18 in total in the industry and 30 years overall - to work in the Eddie Rockets at the end of the road.

Real life may not be pretty but you can't avoid it. I've worked damn hard to get where I am, I don't mind commuting but i'm sick of being called a "self entitled worker" and on the receiving end of some lame Nazi garbage and that nonsense post about the Reform club - just for not wanting to stand like veal on the journey home after paying through the nose for it.

PlaneSpeeking · 19-11-2018 02:52PM

mariaalice wrote: »

It not really about a solution its a chance to for a resentment filled rant against older people, and mothers with children plus it include the disabled who have a job and a free bus pass but don't look disabled, using public transport at the same time as commuters.

That post could not be more wrong.

Chinasea · 19-11-2018 03:12PM

Emme wrote: »

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

Eveey morning a good proportion of the seats are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders. Sometimes people like myself (paying commuters) have to stand because of this. From Athy on more people have to stand. Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

I understand some of them have to go to hospital appointments which is fair enough. But the gaggle of 8 mature women talking loudly about their shopping trip could have got a later train. They will probably get a peak time train home in the evening as will many of the other FTP holders. They always seem to get to the train first in the evenings while people who rush to the train from work often have to stand.

When you are tired and burnt out you can get angry and resentful. Angry and resentful of getting nothing for your taxes and paying a huge chunk of your salary to commute (often standing each way) while those who pay nothing get the seats.

I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

Meanwhile commuters are getting screwed in every way but are too exhausted to do anything.

The FTP should be for off peak travel only. If the government wants to give it to pensioners full time it should be means tested. If some of them can afford to shop in BTs they can surely afford the price of a train ticket.

Many will disagree with me. But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

I would agree without even the justification.

RobbingBandit · 19-11-2018 03:12PM

antodeco wrote: »

FTP holders should be put into specific carriages and the rest of the "wealthy" are out into the other carriages. I think to speed things up as well, they should get the long FTP number tattooed on the inside of their arms.

Free head shaves for all!

And how about a shamerock
The e is for the expense caused by the passes
I hope none of you ever get old or sick

19-11-2018 03:12PM

witchgirl26 wrote: »

You do realise that those who are entitled to the free pass due to age now did not shaft your generation at all and paid more nominal tax on their salaries than you currently are? In the 1980's there were six tax bands raging from 25% to 65% at the top. In 2018 the lowest tax rate is 20% with the highest being 40%. So realistically they have funded the free travel they're entitled to now themselves and you're the one with it a bit easier. And we don't have lower salaries. The cost of things has increased but so have salaries.

The country ran a deficit for that entire period.
The taxes paid didn't even cover current spending then never mind future benefits being given out today.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-11-2018 03:13PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Many oaps use the pass to travel around the country. They shop, go to restaurants, have a few drinks because they're not driving and stay in hotels. A lot of this is made possible by the free transport. It's an incentive to get out there and spend a few quid. I'd say many local businesses around the country would agree with me.

They don't need to travel at peak times to do any of this though. If they CHOOSE to travel at peak times then they should pay.

FTP used to be off peak only but FF removed the restrictions in a blatant move to buy votes while not providing capacity to meet the increased demand.

skooterblue2 · 19-11-2018 03:14PM

A better focus is the investment of Urban/Rural. There is too much investment in Dublin and not enough in the Regional towns putting pressure on Dublin and no retention of youth in Rural and regional towns. Not everything has to happen in Dublin. Have proper regional development and decentralisation.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-11-2018 03:23PM

Too much investment in Dublin? Are you taking the mick? Dublin is starved of infrastructure and investment while its taxes subsidise the rest of the country.

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 03:24PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They don't need to travel at peak times to do any of this though. If they CHOOSE to travel at peak times then they should pay.

FTP used to be off peak only but FF removed the restrictions in a blatant move to buy votes while not providing capacity to meet the increased demand.

Are there actually many pensioners travelling at peak times ? Apart from journeys to appointments and the odd random group going to catch a flight or off to a hotel I very much doubt there are armies of pensioners travelling at peak times . Then genuinely why would they bother squeezing on to a full bus or train when they can wait an hour ?

AlekSmart · 19-11-2018 03:30PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're running with the antisocial nonsense but I have no issue with fellow travellers; we're largely in the same boat.

I have an issue with being in the 12th hour of a working day and having to lean onto a jacks door for "comfort" while someone who wouldn't have put in 12 hours in the last year combined swans on to the train with their free pass and feral kids.

Oh and lose the Belsen type rhetotic guys, it doesn't make you sound edgy - just offensive.

To put your commuting experience into a perspective re numbers....

The DSP produces a Statistical Report each year,which contains a great deal of stuff,if you have the time it can either cure you...or kill you !!!

https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Annual_Statistics_Report_2017.pdf

So in 2017,there were a total of 902,513 persons holding a FTP,if one includes the Spousal/Companion element then the figure is c.1.2 Million entitled persons. (The DSP do not appear to publish details of the actual Spouse/Companion numbers)

The 2017 FTS budget was €77,456,000 to cover the entirety of the scheme.

Again,for perspective and comparison an annual CIE "All Services Pass" covering the Groups Road & Rail services retails at....€6,530.

https://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/CIE-All-Services-Irish-Rail-Dublin-Bus--Bus-Eireann/

Note: The CIE Ticket does NOT include Luas or Private Sector services,which the FTS pass does.

Anyway,as the Yanks might say..."Do the Math".....;)

skooterblue2 · 19-11-2018 03:31PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Too much investment in Dublin? Are you taking the mick? Dublin is starved of infrastructure and investment while its taxes subsidise the rest of the country.

Nope!, You take those manufacturing jobs and some IT jobs and a few of those big Pharma jobs in North Dublin and take them out the country and they ease housing for people who really need to work in Dublin. There has been only one new factory opened in Waterford in the last 15 years since we lost the glass factory in Waterford city. Your few bob goes a lot further down the country than it does in Dublin. You ease housing, traffic, stress and educational pressures and rejuvenate the rest of the rural towns

Nesta99 · 19-11-2018 03:41PM

Emme wrote: »

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

Tell me again the nothing you get in return!?

Of course there are some people who have the FTP under questionable circumstances but that is what happens when trying to provide for those who do need an FTP, the sick, vulnerable and elderly. The woman of who you speak have likely had prodiuctive working lives and whose taxes contributed to the train on which you sit upon.

Maybe there could be a informal type request for people in no hurry to avoid peak time trains but that would be for all types of ticket holder!

19-11-2018 03:42PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

To put your commuting experience into a perspective re numbers....

The DSP produces a Statistical Report each year,which contains a great deal of stuff,if you have the time it can either cure you...or kill you !!!

https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Annual_Statistics_Report_2017.pdf

So in 2017,there were a total of 902,513 persons holding a FTP,if one includes the Spousal/Companion element then the figure is c.1.2 Million entitled persons. (The DSP do not appear to publish details of the actual Spouse/Companion numbers)

The 2017 FTS budget was €77,456,000 to cover the entirety of the scheme.

Again,for perspective and comparison an annual CIE "All Services Pass" covering the Groups Road & Rail services retails at....€6,530.

https://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/CIE-All-Services-Irish-Rail-Dublin-Bus--Bus-Eireann/

Note: The CIE Ticket does NOT include Luas or Private Sector services,which the FTS pass does.

Anyway,as the Yanks might say..."Do the Math".....;)

My mother had a free bus pass but never used it and there are lots like that, my first husband who is long since retired uses his free bus pass on the air coach and there are lots of like him healthy wealthy retires using their free bus pass on the air coach.

The way I see it is fair play to them, when and if I get to retirement I am planning to have a ball, I have a kind of warm benign love towards my fellow humans most are just trying their best.

PlaneSpeeking · 19-11-2018 03:42PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

To put your commuting experience into a perspective re numbers....

The DSP produces a Statistical Report each year,which contains a great deal of stuff,if you have the time it can either cure you...or kill you !!!

https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Annual_Statistics_Report_2017.pdf

So in 2017,there were a total of 902,513 persons holding a FTP,if one includes the Spousal/Companion element then the figure is c.1.2 Million entitled persons. (The DSP do not appear to publish details of the actual Spouse/Companion numbers)

The 2017 FTS budget was €77,456,000 to cover the entirety of the scheme.

Again,for perspective and comparison an annual CIE "All Services Pass" covering the Groups Road & Rail services retails at....€6,530.

https://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/CIE-All-Services-Irish-Rail-Dublin-Bus--Bus-Eireann/

Note: The CIE Ticket does NOT include Luas or Private Sector services,which the FTS pass does.

Anyway,as the Yanks might say..."Do the Math".....;)

So a quarter of the country have one ???? Mother of Jesus!!!! No wonder there's no seats unless you get on the second the train boards!!!

Many thanks, scary thoughts there I might go for a pint and get the 7pm!!

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 03:45PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So a quarter of the country have one ???? Mother of Jesus!!!! No wonder there's no seats unless you get on the second the train boards!!!

Many thanks, scary thoughts there I might go for a pint and get the 7pm!!

I doubt a quarter of the country are all bundling on to your train at peak travel time .Its hardly droves of people needing to move at once . It would be very interesting to see how many on your have a FTP ?

PlaneSpeeking · 19-11-2018 03:46PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I doubt a quarter of the country are all bundling on to your train at peak travel time .Its hardly droves of people needing to move at once . It would be very interesting to see how many on your have a FTP ?

It's rare that we get a ticket inspection but we did the other week and there were a fair few still with the old white ticket. I though they had been phased out ?

19-11-2018 03:49PM

But what will happen if it is off-peak only say not before 10 am and not from 4 pm to 6 pm, and the trains and buses are still jammed at commuting times what will happen them?

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 03:49PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

It's rare that we get a ticket inspection but we did the other week and there were a fair few still with the old white ticket. I though they had been phased out ?

No idea , ours is the new green Public services card and it written in the top corner if its for free travel .

PlaneSpeeking · 19-11-2018 03:58PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No idea , ours is the new green Public services card and it written in the top corner if its for free travel .

Seen a few of them alright, all elderly people who should be allowed to travel where and when they want.

Emme · 19-11-2018 04:10PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So a quarter of the country have one ???? Mother of Jesus!!!! No wonder there's no seats unless you get on the second the train boards!!!

Many thanks, scary thoughts there I might go for a pint and get the 7pm!!

If those figures are correct then 1 in 4 people are travelling free gratis at any time. As stated before the sick and incapacitated are entitled to free travel. However can nearly 1 in 4 really be sick and incapacitated?

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

Someone said they worked hard and raised 4 children. Well done and I hope those 4 children are a credit to you. However the average working couple now could not afford 4 children. They would probably not be able to stretch to a second job because of time constraints and the demands of the existing job.

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

Some older people have taken offence at this thread but if they have working adult children with families surely they realise the pressures some are under, particularly if they live in a rural area and have to commute long distances to work. Some city dwellers may have seen their children move to the likes of Carlow, Portlaoise or Portarlington to find an affordable home. And commute to Dublin every day from there.

The free travel pass as it is now will probably not change until the next recession. But if it does, the already overstretched workers will be hit a lot harder.

PlaneSpeeking · 19-11-2018 04:17PM

I think this is interesting too:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-1-300-free-travel-passes-confiscated-in-2017-1.3389961

iamwhoiam · 19-11-2018 04:21PM

Emme wrote: »

If those figures are correct then 1 in 4 people are travelling free gratis at any time. As stated before the sick and incapacitated are entitled to free travel. However can nearly 1 in 4 really be sick and incapacitated?

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

Someone said they worked hard and raised 4 children. Well done and I hope those 4 children are a credit to you. However the average working couple now could not afford 4 children. They would probably not be able to stretch to a second job because of time constraints and the demands of the existing job.

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

Some older people have taken offence at this thread but if they have working adult children with families surely they realise the pressures some are under, particularly if they live in a rural area and have to commute long distances to work. harder.

If you are referring to me then Yes thank you I fully understand the pressures my adult children are under . We use our free travel pass to pick up our grandchild and mind her four days a week to try ease the pressure . So don't be so quick to judge us . Thanks

pjohnson · 19-11-2018 04:21PM

Emme wrote: »

If those figures are correct then 1 in 4 people are travelling free gratis at any time. As stated before the sick and incapacitated are entitled to free travel. However can nearly 1 in 4 really be sick and incapacitated?

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

Someone said they worked hard and raised 4 children. Well done and I hope those 4 children are a credit to you. However the average working couple now could not afford 4 children. They would probably not be able to stretch to a second job because of time constraints and the demands of the existing job.

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

Some older people have taken offence at this thread but if they have working adult children with families surely they realise the pressures some are under, particularly if they live in a rural area and have to commute long distances to work. Some city dwellers may have seen their children move to the likes of Carlow, Portlaoise or Portarlington to find an affordable home. And commute to Dublin every day from there.

The free travel pass as it is now will probably not change until the next recession. But if it does, the already overstretched workers will be hit a lot harder.

Bahahaha. Yeah thats it. Not possible that those disagreeing are also workers. Not every worker is a whinger.

pjohnson · 19-11-2018 04:23PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I think this is interesting too:

So the government ARE clamping down on the misuse of FTP then. Thats good those not deserving get it confiscated. Whats the outrage again

Emme · 19-11-2018 04:31PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Bahahaha. Yeah thats it. Not possible that those disagreeing are also workers. Not every worker is a whinger.

Please tell me how long is your commute to and from work and how do you get there?

Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Comments