Teachers in Ireland too white and too irish?

irishproduce · 14-11-2018 05:50PM

Of course such an initiative makes perfect sense. If that is how you are inclined to think of the world and view how society should be run.
But it is but one way to do things, and it is the way the current political flavour of the month see how society should be run.

You have a choice when elections come up.
If you do not like the fact that the current leadership see it as appropriate to import teachers from near and sunder to move young Irish graduates down the pecking order, then let that be known with your vote.
If your view is that such a policy initiative is perfectly acceptable, then give your vote to the current lot, because in doing so, you will enaure not only will nothing change, but you will get a little more of the same.

FishOnABike · 14-11-2018 05:50PM

mammajamma wrote: »

Absolutely no doubt its tied to money, none whatsoever. Just another place looking to grab a grant.

Interestingly, perhaps, the direct quote from RTE (the one I quoted) left out the "female" part. Hm! Why would they do that?

mammajamma wrote: »

I didn't leave it out on purpose, I quoted the RTE article. They are the ones who left it out. Interesting.

It was never there in the first place, I added it in to highlight a shortcoming in the research. As is all too frequent research is driven by agenda rather than data.

An objective approach might have been to gather data about the composition of the general population and the teaching profession. Make allowances for confounding factors such as the time lag. Identify and rank any discrepancies in order of significance. Propose and implement measures to address those discrepancies.

I've done a quick search for initiatives to encourage and / or support more men taking up teaching and though i've found a number or articles and reports of one type or another highlighting the significant under representation but, in several pages of results, I've not found any information on anything being put in place to address this under representation.

Why? Or does one need to ask?

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:52PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Absolutely. Imagine someone who wants to be a teacher like his or her parents and can’t because some ridiculous ideologues believe there should be a quota for non whites (or course there shouldn’t be a quota either way so they aren’t the best they shouldn’t get in).

Its the ideology of a child, untouched as yet by reality. "why don't we make more money so everyone has enough?!" level of thought.

You can be damn sure, every single sign is there and groundwork in place to enact exclusionary policies against irish people, its only a matter of when at this point.

You have to wonder, at what point will the irish population at large actually wake up and smell the coffee, that there are small groups of people actively, and successfully, working against their interests, and those of their children down the line?

irishproduce · 14-11-2018 05:56PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

"Recent research has found that while Ireland’s school student population is now highly diverse, teachers here continue to be overwhelmingly 'white Irish' and middle class and female ."

FTFY - this is what happens with agenda driven research (isn't it all agenda driven - whoever pays the piper calls the tune).

A teaching career lasts approximately forty years. Up to relatively recently Ireland's population was relatively homogeneous.

Given the time to train, qualify and secure a full time permanent post I would expect there to be a considerable time lag between a change in the composition of the general population and a corresponding change being reflected in the composition of the teaching population.

With the disimprovement terms and conditions for newly qualified teachers acting as a disincentive for anyone to enter the profession I would expect that time lag to be increased further.

I would want the best to teach our children, not the best box tickers.

It may be the curmudgeonly cynic in me but "This project is supported by the Office of Promotion Of Migrant Integration under the National Funding Programme." - as with a lot of initiatives it looks like a case of follow the (grant) money.

If we want to attract more (and better) people to teaching then improve the conditions to make it a more attractive career choice.

This is an outstanding post.
There is nothing in that I disagree on.

I completely missed the fact they left out the female part in their research. As sure as I know my own name, there is no way one could carry out research looking for an imbalance in teaching demographics and not find that it is overwhelmingly female.

You would be forgiven for thinking they purposely deleted that section from the report

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:58PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

It was never there in the first place, I added it in to highlight a shortcoming in the research. As is all too frequent research is driven by agenda rather than data.

An objective approach might have been to gather data about the composition of the general population and the teaching profession. Make allowances for confounding factors such as the time lag. Identify and rank any discrepancies in order of significance. Propose and implement measures to address those discrepancies.

I've done a quick search for initiatives to encourage and / or support more men taking up teaching and though i've found a number or articles and reports of one type or another highlighting the significant under representation but, in several pages of results, I've not found any information on anything being put in place to address this under representation.

Why? Or does one need to ask?

Im looking at a bigger picture of your example. You are highlighting the very real discrepancy in male teachers. I take the logical next step, highlighting the momentum being put in place to enact similar "discrepancies" against irish people at large.

Its not far-fetched at all to see down the line that a person could be doing what youre doing, but at a national level. And probably facing as much support too.

There is a clear and defined direction in mind behind these things, and the sooner irish people slam the brakes on it, the better.

One of the greatest blocks is the entanglement of government and RTE. That it should be allowed and tolerated as it exists is ridiculous. That needs to be stopped.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-11-2018 05:58PM

Was it for this the wild geese spread?

14-11-2018 06:02PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Wrong side of history. Whites on the way out.

They'll be rounding up the last of them before the winter is out

Chinasea · 14-11-2018 06:02PM

Have you noticed that all the 'crap' jobs are done by non Irish. Who cleans the puke in your hospitals, who collects your rubbish, who delivers and cooks your cheap fast food?

Is it too much that we consider some sort of provision of diversity to help educate the children of the immigrants, who in the majority do the crappie jobs that the white Irish don't want to do?

14-11-2018 06:04PM

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Yes but in fairness how many traveller and dole threads have we had at the same time?:D

:P

I think we need a basher bashing thread.:D

Unfortunately true, if theres one thing this place ain't it's original

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 06:10PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Was it for this the wild geese spread?

Its par for the course. National identity must be undercut and made as irrelevant as possible. Bonus points if you can tie some kind of guilt to it.

Strip the people of Ireland of their identity, make them feel un-special, un-worthy, unattractive. Blast out all the wonderful attributes of non-irish everything. As I said earlier, its an abusive relationship between those "running" the country and the people.

Now, you see, you have a blank canvas, a disenfranchised people that you can now mould and shape and abuse and discard as you please.

Pay attention to how the language and narrative consists of "we're a global...", "a changed/changing country...", "New Ireland...", "new irish…"etc. Ireland, as a country, is already gone as far as they are concerned. A done deal.

They don't want a country, they want a colony. Too bad about the people that called it their home for thousands of years, but, you know, "progress".

What irish people need to very quickly answer, is who this "progress" benefits?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-11-2018 06:14PM

Chinasea wrote: »

Have you noticed that all the 'crap' jobs are done by non Irish. Who cleans the puke in your hospitals, who collects your rubbish, who delivers and cooks your cheap fast food?

Is it too much that we consider some sort of provision of diversity to help educate the children of the immigrants, who in the majority do the crappie jobs that the white Irish don't want to do?

No. There’s no quota on those jobs, is there?

topper75 · 14-11-2018 06:18PM

mammajamma wrote: »

I don't know, but its being reported from RTE today/last night.

Why do they insist on highlighting this agenda of diversity for diversity sake?

I don't know how they think they can pull the white guilt trick on us Irish - sure we were being ****ed over as a colony too!!

We have a housing crisis in our capital. We need a foreign influx like a hole in the head.

And what is it with the Irish Times' drive on this? They have a dozen or so pics of the day today and TWO of them are of illegal migration. So right on.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 06:21PM

Chinasea wrote: »

Have you noticed that all the 'crap' jobs are done by non Irish. Who cleans the puke in your hospitals, who collects your rubbish, who delivers and cooks your cheap fast food?

Is it too much that we consider some sort of provision of diversity to help educate the children of the immigrants, who in the majority do the crappie jobs that the white Irish don't want to do?

Oh another golden oldie. The "irish people wont do the jobs" chestnut.

Heres a frightening piece of logic for you to consider.

When Ireland wasn't "global", who did ALL the jobs? I suppose we were all wallowing in puke wishing for an immigrant to come and clean it up. Makes sense.

When immigrants decided that Ireland was a better place than their own country, who was it that made the Ireland better in the first place? Maybe some sort of time machines were involved!

Nah, fook that non-logic.

Heres the real answer. Immigrants move into a country and soak up all the low-paying jobs, ably abetted by corrupt, greedy irish business owners hoping to push down wages.

I had the exquisite experience of working in a low-paid job when I was younger, only to be ousted by the non-irish bunch of fellow workers. They all so happened to be from the same country. And guess what, it was one of their own that magically appeared in my place afterwards.

I must have been "too lazy" right? And I have several more personal experiences too.

The irish did it too centuries ago, not that the past is very relevant in this globalised, social welfare nonsense.

So no, importing a low wage population is not good for the irish people. And no, it has sweet FA to do with irish people being lazier than anyone else. And no, immigrants are not more or less productive than irish people. Just "no"!

Cordell · 14-11-2018 06:21PM

Chinasea wrote: »

Have you noticed that all the 'crap' jobs are done by non Irish. Who cleans the puke in your hospitals, who collects your rubbish, who delivers and cooks your cheap fast food?

Is it too much that we consider some sort of provision of diversity to help educate the children of the immigrants, who in the majority do the crappie jobs that the white Irish don't want to do?

You mean special schools with immigrant teachers for immigrant's children?
Or, you mean you'll be grand if treated by a doctor hired on diversity, not merits?

I'm an immigrant myself, fwiw. We don't need any special thanks for working here or anything else except to be treated like anyone else, and that includes having our kids educated by the same teachers as everyone else.

Chips Lovell · 14-11-2018 06:22PM

mammajamma wrote: »

They don't want a country, they want a colony. Too bad about the people that called it their home for thousands of years, but, you know, "progress".

What irish people need to very quickly answer, is who this "progress" benefits?

Is it Denis O'Brien? The Illuminati? The Freemasons? Or the Lizard People?

Ipso · 14-11-2018 06:24PM

Shouldn't an education department be focused on providing education?
Unless there is evidence of people of non Irish background being discriminated against, why make an issue of it? Many might not want to be teachers.

Ipso · 14-11-2018 06:25PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Is it Denis O'Brien? The Illuminati? The Freemasons? Or the Lizard People?

Just people who like to appear to achieve things while avoiding more serious issues.

nice_guy80 · 14-11-2018 06:27PM

Why isn't there a free teaching course for Irish people?

Chinasea · 14-11-2018 06:30PM

This is just another racist platform thread where the racists circle their wagons and profess their so called non racist innocence.

Are the dole threads done to death?

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 06:31PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Is it Denis O'Brien? The Illuminati? The Freemasons? Or the Lizard People?

Actually you're right, observed reality can be displaced by "jokes" (read: nervous subversive, hand-waving in the hopes of distraction) about lizard people.

My world just changed. Where were you all my life?

Chips Lovell · 14-11-2018 06:34PM

Go on, don't keep us in suspense OP. Who are "they"? Is it George Soros?

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 06:35PM

irishproduce wrote: »

Of course such an initiative makes perfect sense. If that is how you are inclined to think of the world and view how society should be run.
But it is but one way to do things, and it is the way the current political flavour of the month see how society should be run.

You have a choice when elections come up.
If you do not like the fact that the current leadership see it as appropriate to import teachers from near and sunder to move young Irish graduates down the pecking order, then let that be known with your vote.
If your view is that such a policy initiative is perfectly acceptable, then give your vote to the current lot, because in doing so, you will enaure not only will nothing change, but you will get a little more of the same.

Absolutely. And that is why it is important to have discussion, and to vote on informed choice.

It is practically a global phenomena that people don't vote in nearly enough numbers. Said phenomenon is carefully curated by those in power, always dodging popular opinion while pumping as much distraction as possible into the ether.

Vote, everyone!

Chinasea · 14-11-2018 06:37PM

Cordell wrote: »

Y

I'm an immigrant myself,

fwiw. We don't need any special thanks for working here or anything else except to be treated like anyone else, and that includes having our kids educated by the same teachers as everyone else.

Speak for yourself, and secondly I doubt you are an immigrant.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 06:39PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Go on, don't keep us in suspense OP. Who are "they"? Is it George Soros?

Two things

1) You're use of the word "us" is misplaced, even merely going by a headcount in this thread, nevermind elsewhere.

2) You are in just as much suspense as I am bothered to address your poor distractionary "joke"

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 06:45PM

Chinasea wrote: »

This is just another racist platform thread where the racists circle their wagons and profess their so called non racist innocence.

Are the dole threads done to death?

The three step programme.

1) *makes a ridiculous argument about irish people being too lazy to work for ourselves*

2) *ridiculous notion gets destroyed*

3) *no comeback beyond "its racist!!!!"*

Now, if I can interest you, there is a four step programme, at no extra cost.

4) *states that there is no time to reply, that the point is too silly to argue*

So can I put you down for the 4 step programme, or is the three step working for you?

t1h9mgqsxopj0r · 14-11-2018 06:46PM

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

If Johnny splits the coke 5 ways, how much do you sell each baggie for?

Tenner lad. On tick for friends. Be grand sure

Chips Lovell · 14-11-2018 06:46PM

So "they" are conspiring to destroy the Irish identity, but you're not going to tell us who "they" are?

You're such a tease OP.

antietam1 · 14-11-2018 06:46PM

Chinasea wrote: »

Have you noticed that all the 'crap' jobs are done by non Irish. Who cleans the puke in your hospitals, who collects your rubbish, who delivers and cooks your cheap fast food?

Is it too much that we consider some sort of provision of diversity to help educate the children of the immigrants, who in the majority do the crappie jobs that the white Irish don't want to do?

There are still some Irish doing crappy jobs, jobs made even worse because people from abroad helped greedy employers drive down wages.

WinnyThePoo · 14-11-2018 06:49PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

So "they" are conspiring to destroy the Irish identity, but you're not going to tell us who "they" are?

You're such a tease OP.

Quite selfish and rude when you think about.

Lol joke
we all know what the ops intentions for this thread are and it's easily transparent.

MadYaker · 14-11-2018 06:50PM

Didnt read the article but the headline seems ridiculous. Do the students care? I doubt it. Give it ten years and all the ethnically diverse Irish kids who are in school here now will have grown up and some will be teachers.

Edit: I read it. It actually doesn't sound that ridiculous. There's is actually a shortage of teachers for certain subjects but it's mostly irish and I doubt there too many foreigners who could teach that. I wonder are there many immigrants here who are qualified as teachers but aren't working as such? The article seems to suggest that there is but it provides no evidence.

No doubt the normal snowflakes will take offense to this without actually reading it, I can already see it in the first few comments.

Teachers in Ireland too white and too irish?

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