Teachers in Ireland too white and too irish?

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 04:57PM

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Here we go again
Another anti immigration rant

Here we go again
Another "don't talk about awkward stuff" post

MFPM · 14-11-2018 04:58PM

professore wrote: »

Definitely a strong case for non nationals to teach languages. And as many on here will testify I am far from a loony leftist.

Foreign National or Non Irish National.

14-11-2018 04:59PM

mammajamma wrote: »

I have quoted in the opening post. The inference is crystal clear.

What is the inference

bodhrandude · 14-11-2018 04:59PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Didn't we have this thread already a few weeks ago?

Yep your right, c'mon now move along your thread is not with it anymore.

CinemaGuy45 · 14-11-2018 04:59PM

mammajamma wrote: »

Here we go again
Another "don't talk about awkward stuff" post

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:02PM

professore wrote: »

Definitely a strong case for non nationals to teach languages. And as many on here will testify I am far from a loony leftist.

But what about irish people teaching foreign languages?

I know we don't have a great track record as it stands, but we're surely just giving up 100% if we allow others to do the job. It would make the situation worse.

It always seems to be the same with these initiatives and plans and agendas, quite simply a downward spiral that puts us at ever-increasing disadvantage, forcing a growing reliance on outside "help", which in turn puts us at a greater disadvantage and on and on.

Someone has to intervene in this non-logic at some point.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:03PM

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Perfect. The only thing missing is the sinking ship the monkeys should be on. Its not only ignorance, its ignorance in the face of looming problems.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:04PM

bubblypop wrote: »

What is the inference

What I stated in the opening post.

MFPM · 14-11-2018 05:04PM

mammajamma wrote: »

But what about irish people teaching foreign languages?

I know we don't have a great track record as it stands, but we're surely just giving up 100% if we allow others to do the job. It would make the situation worse.

It always seems to be the same with these initiatives and plans and agendas, quite simply a downward spiral that puts us at ever-increasing disadvantage, forcing a growing reliance on outside "help", which in turn puts us at a greater disadvantage and on and on.

Someone has to intervene in this non-logic at some point.

Have you written to Google and FB and told them to stop importing all those tech workers, outrageous behaviour by them.

Have you written to the Australian, US, Canadian gov and demanded they return all the Irish migrants over there robbing their jobs?

FishOnABike · 14-11-2018 05:05PM

"Recent research has found that while Ireland’s school student population is now highly diverse, teachers here continue to be overwhelmingly 'white Irish' and middle class and female ."

FTFY - this is what happens with agenda driven research (isn't it all agenda driven - whoever pays the piper calls the tune).

A teaching career lasts approximately forty years. Up to relatively recently Ireland's population was relatively homogeneous.

Given the time to train, qualify and secure a full time permanent post I would expect there to be a considerable time lag between a change in the composition of the general population and a corresponding change being reflected in the composition of the teaching population.

With the disimprovement terms and conditions for newly qualified teachers acting as a disincentive for anyone to enter the profession I would expect that time lag to be increased further.

I would want the best to teach our children, not the best box tickers.

It may be the curmudgeonly cynic in me but "This project is supported by the Office of Promotion Of Migrant Integration under the National Funding Programme." - as with a lot of initiatives it looks like a case of follow the (grant) money.

If we want to attract more (and better) people to teaching then improve the conditions to make it a more attractive career choice.

MFPM · 14-11-2018 05:08PM

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Look you want a bit of honesty I will be honest with you.
These threads always end with a load of infractions and bans and I don't want either.

Many other people will be feeling the same but will be too chicken to admit it.

A better place to discuss stuff of this nature is political Irish Google it.

Yes, she'd fit right in on that cesspit of hate.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:11PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

"Recent research has found that while Ireland’s school student population is now highly diverse, teachers here continue to be overwhelmingly 'white Irish' and middle class and female ."

FTFY - this is what happens with agenda driven research (isn't it all agenda driven - whoever pays the piper calls the tune).

A teaching career lasts approximately forty years. Up to relatively recently Ireland's population was relatively homogeneous.

Given the time to train, qualify and secure a full time permanent post I would expect there to be a considerable time lag between a change in the composition of the general population and a corresponding change being reflected in the composition of the teaching population.

With the disimprovement terms and conditions for newly qualified teachers acting as a disincentive for anyone to enter the profession I would expect that time lag to be increased further.

I would want the best to teach our children, not the best box tickers.

It may be the curmudgeonly cynic in me but "This project is supported by the Office of Promotion Of Migrant Integration under the National Funding Programme." - as with a lot of initiatives it looks like a case of follow the (grant) money.

If we want to attract more (and better) people to teaching then improve the conditions to make it a more attractive career choice.

Absolutely no doubt its tied to money, none whatsoever. Just another place looking to grab a grant.

Interestingly, perhaps, the direct quote from RTE (the one I quoted) left out the "female" part. Hm! Why would they do that?

Amirani · 14-11-2018 05:13PM

Need to get Mary Mitchell O'Connor on the case, she can introduce a number of Non-White Only teaching posts to address the imbalance.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

OP left one out. White, Irish and female, but it is not cool to mention

I didn't leave it out on purpose, I quoted the RTE article. They are the ones who left it out. Interesting.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:15PM

Amirani wrote: »

Need to get Mary Mitchell O'Connor on the case, she can introduce a number of Non-White Only teaching posts to address the imbalance.

You joke about it now, but remember that point down the line. I'd put money on it.

CinemaGuy45 · 14-11-2018 05:16PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Didn't we have this thread already a few weeks ago?

Yes but in fairness how many traveller and dole threads have we had at the same time?:D

:P

I think we need a basher bashing thread.:D

FishOnABike · 14-11-2018 05:22PM

professore wrote: »

Definitely a strong case for non nationals to teach languages. And as many on here will testify I am far from a loony leftist.

MFPM wrote: »

Foreign National or Non Irish National.

True, apart from the small number of people like
Mehran Karimi Nasseri who inspired the 2004 film "The Terminal" everyone is a national of somewhere.

Having a native speaker could be an advantage though I would still like to see them having a degree in the language or a recognised third level teaching qualification and a T#FL qualification in the language.

A native speaker can be too familiar with the colloquialisms of a language and not with the formal and technical aspects of a language which they know "because that's just the way it is".

tonycascarino · 14-11-2018 05:23PM

Amirani wrote: »

Need to get Mary Mitchell O'Connor on the case, she can introduce a number of Non-White Only teaching posts to address the imbalance.

The way things are going I wouldn't be one bit surprised in the near future that an X amount of teachers will have to be African, an X amount Eastern European, an X amount gay, an x amount transsexual, an x amount gender fluid, an x amount with green eyes because too many have blue, an x amount Islamic etc. When loonies take over and are given a platform this is what you will get.

Hector Savage · 14-11-2018 05:24PM

Poisonous Identity politics rears it's head again.

FishOnABike · 14-11-2018 05:30PM

tonycascarino wrote: »

The way things are going I wouldn't be one bit surprised in the near future that an X amount of teachers will have to be African, an X amount Eastern European, an X amount gay, an x amount transsexual, an x amount gender fluid, an x amount with green eyes because too many have blue, an x amount Islamic etc. When loonies take over and are given a platform this is what you will get.

Can I self identify as an Eastern European, African,gay transexual, gender fluid, greeny blue eyed moslem to tick the most boxes and maximise my career opportunities ? And if not who can I sue for discrimination and infringing my rights?

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:30PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

True, apart from the small number of people like
Mehran Karimi Nasseri who inspired the 2004 film "The Terminal" everyone is a national of somewhere.

Having a native speaker could be an advantage though I would still like to see them having a degree in the language or a recognised third level teaching qualification and a T#FL qualification in the language.

A native speaker can be too familiar with the colloquialisms of a language and not with the formal and technical aspects of a language which they know "because that's just the way it is".

As usual there is a much broader, much deeper hypocrisy at play in these situations, extended from your language example.

"come to Ireland and experience its culture and people, we're great!" while at the same time "irish people need to bend over backwards to change for non-irish people, we're terrible!"

Which is it? Its a tortuous message very much akin to an abusive relationship, someone that pretends to love you in-between bouts of physical and emotional abuse. No wonder people are confused and silent.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:35PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Poisonous Identity politics rears it's head again.

You can almost understand it in a country as divided and segmented as the united states. But in Ireland?

"They", being the usual suspects, are doing a stellar job of undermining 90% of a group of people to kowtow to the odd 1 or 2% here and there.

Its the coup of the century, and we're only 18 years into it!

klaaaz · 14-11-2018 05:35PM

There should be a quota for some traveller teachers, it might help breach the hate so that when some of the present settled kids grow up they won't have a hated bias towards travellers like their parents do.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-11-2018 05:35PM

rtgdfd wrote: »

What's wrong with being White and Irish?.

Wrong side of history. Whites on the way out.

bullpost · 14-11-2018 05:41PM

mammajamma wrote: »

As usual there is a much broader, much deeper hypocrisy at play in these situations, extended from your language example.

"come to Ireland and experience its culture and people, we're great!" while at the same time "irish people need to bend over backwards to change for non-irish people, we're terrible!"

Which is it? Its a tortuous message very much akin to an abusive relationship, someone that pretends to love you in-between bouts of physical and emotional abuse. No wonder people are confused and silent.

Add a new subject to the curriculum and we're sorted - "The Craic".

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-11-2018 05:42PM

wexie wrote: »

For some people the outrage over there being non white, non irish people in the country (that want to work) just never ends.

Must be hard work

That’s not the issue here though. If you want to make race relations bad this kind of guff is certain to do it.

The teachers are white and Irish because most of the population is. All of the population was when many of these teachers started out.

And why should it matter anyway? If you think that a Nigerian child needs a Nigerian teacher, and a Chinese child needs a Chinese teacher, etc etc etc we would end up with racially segregated schools.

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:42PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Poisonous Identity politics rears it's head again.

It can be too easy to pass off "identity politics" as some form of harmless opinion.

But the impact of that ideology is very real, including finances, opportunity, employment, disenfranchisement, bullying even. Much more besides.

This isn't some joke, it will increasingly have a tangible effect on irish people and the country as a whole.

Apiarist · 14-11-2018 05:43PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

Can I self identify as an Eastern European, African,gay transexual, gender fluid, greeny blue eyed moslem to tick the most boxes and maximise my career opportunities ? And if not who can I sue for discrimination and infringing my rights?

The important question is whether you identify yourself as a primary school teacher. Do you wake up every morning, look at yourself in the bathroom mirror and cry because you do not conform to the teacher stereotype?

mammajamma · 14-11-2018 05:44PM

bullpost wrote: »

Add a new subject to the curriculum and we're sorted - "The Craic".

Sorry, "the craic" is far too exclusionary for our super diverse population, far too **irish**

Give me ten hail varadkars on your knees immediately.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-11-2018 05:44PM

mammajamma wrote: »

It can be too easy to pass off "identity politics" as some form of harmless opinion.

But the impact of that ideology is very real, including finances, opportunity, employment, disenfranchisement, bullying even. Much more besides.

This isn't some joke, it will increasingly have a tangible effect on irish people and the country as a whole.

Absolutely. Imagine someone who wants to be a teacher like his or her parents and can’t because some ridiculous ideologues believe there should be a quota for non whites (or course there shouldn’t be a quota either way so they aren’t the best they shouldn’t get in).

Teachers in Ireland too white and too irish?

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