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Irish birth rate continues to fall

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13

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    #62
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    So basically... who gives a f*ck what type of kids we bring into the world (and hence what type of society we want), so long as we bring that birthrate up?? :rolleyes:

    I really don't think that's what was implied at all.

    I don't know a single person my age who has children who planned them.
    They were all surprises and they're all very happy etc, but if there wasn't such a stigma around it, and it wasn't looked at in such a negative light, more people might actually CHOOSE and PLAN to have children before they hit their mid 30's as is the case now.


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    #63
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    So basically... who gives a f*ck what type of kids we bring into the world (and hence what type of society we want), so long as we bring that birthrate up?? :rolleyes:
    What? I have no idea what that's even supposed to mean, never mind where you got it from.


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    #64
    Cleopatra_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Cleopatra_


    As far as I know Ireland has one of the highest birth rates in Europe. My missus is German and she has quite a few friends back home who are only children which is definitely more unusual in Ireland. Any time the mother in law came to visit us she was horrified by the number of children running around the place so I think things will be alright for quite a while.


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    #65
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Its more affordable to have a child if you're on social welfare than if you're working full time.


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    #66
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    What might that be? I've never heard of a gilead type state before.

    Anywho - I'm a baby making machine, the low birth rate ain't my fault!:D

    A totalitarian Christian theocracy.


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    #67
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Irish ladies, stop stuffing the faces and hit the gym

    I've been going to the gym for ages but I'm not pregnant. Maybe I'm doing the wrong exercises??


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    #68
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    eeguy wrote: »


    Erecipe erectile dysfunction in men is also through the roof.

    Isnt part of the problem, that its not...

    *ill get me coat


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    #69
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    eeguy wrote: »
    Erecipe dysfunction in men is also through the roof.

    Not under my roof it’s not!!


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    #70
    freedominacup
    Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well where do you live? I see so few families with over 4+ children that youd remark on it when you see it. The majority of couples I know has 2 children and a good proportion have 3, but plenty of people unmarried or just dont want children too that I know and then its very easy to see how that average of 2-3 per couple who have children is brought down to well below 2.0 (replacement level)average by the couples who dont have kids.

    It really does depend where you live. The average where I live is over 3. No one would pass any remark about a couple with 5 kids. That said I got a bit of a land last year when I started running into a guy I had been in school with and hadn't seen for years. We were heading back to the cars after dropping kids at a sports event. He hopped into a nine seater. 7 kids and he travels overseas for work 3 weeks a month. In fairness to him he does an awful with the kids when he's around.


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    #71
    Lia_lia
    Registered Users Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    This, a million times. I'm 27 and living with my boyfriend, in a long term relationship, and any time I mention how broody I am people look at me as if I have 2 heads.
    The last person I said it to told me to enjoy my youth and think about it again in a few years.
    I know I'm not old yet, but I wouldn't consider myself to be a "youth", either. You'd swear I was a 14 year old planning a baby the way she was talking!

    A friend of mine is due next month, an unplanned baby, when she told her parents the news they were happy but a bit disappointed because of her age. When my parents were that age they had been married for 5 years with 3 kids, and a mortgage!

    Stopping the stigma and encouraging younger people to start families would be a good way to stop the birth rate from falling. We are automatically taught that unless you are actively trying, an unplanned pregnancy is sometimes treated worse than a jail sentence. If people saw it as more of a positive thing they might be inclined to have kids younger.

    Yes, I agree with this. I'm 29 and would like to maybe have a baby next year but when I tell my friends (who are the same age) they are like..."What? Why? That's very young. Would you not wait a few years?" Next year I'll be 30 and (all going well lol) in a 7 year relationship! And the those that I talk to in their mid-late 30's that have just had babies say they wish they started earlier as they are wrecked.


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    #72
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Interesting article here from 4 years ago talking about the low birth rate in Germany and how financial incentives/tax breaks are not the only issue. Some of the patterns are similar to here.
    ......
    Kerstin Schenk is a 39-year-old new mother from Munich whose experience goes some way to explaining the trend. "I had hoped to have children earlier, but I didn't finish my studies until I was 30," said the management consultant. "And then I felt I needed to get some work experience under my belt before I went off on maternity leave. When I did then have the right partner it took quite a long time for us to get pregnant."
    .....
    Reading the comments in the link are quite interesting.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/21/germany-birthrate-low-falling#comments

    A couple of interesting comments
    ....
    . It does seem that in Germany, many people view the decision of whether or not to start families as a kind of consumer choice. Until more Germans really see children and family as an essential part of a fulfilled life -- and accept the sacrifices that children and family demand -- things aren't going to change, regardless of financial or other incentives offered by the state or employers.
    ....
    If Germany wasn't so reluctant to relax immigration requirements there wouldn't really be a problem. But what they don't say openly is: the desired children should be of german origin. God forbid there might be more little Mohammeds running around!
    ...


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    #73
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,075 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I've been going to the gym for ages but I'm not pregnant. Maybe I'm doing the wrong exercises??




    Very possibly :-P


    Or it could be the oul' butterface syndrome :pac:

    Might just need a change in attitude.
    Get one of those books from the 1930's on how to be a good housewife.


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    #74
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Less nappies ending up in the bin can only be positive


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    #75
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »
    You do realise if most jobs are done away with it means there will be fewer menial jobs to do. So as a population we get more done for less effort. This is a good thing.

    200 years ago it took an entire family to grow just about enough food to try feed themselves. Now a handful of farmers can grow enough food in Ireland to feed 10's of millions. Same goes for making cars, tv's, carpets, glasses. Even apps and that kind of Software!

    The only way automation will make people 'obsolete' is by the extremely rich trying to force it be that way.

    hyperbole much!


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    #76
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Less nappies ending up in the bin can only be positive

    Who's going to generate tax ? There's a storm coming. But never fear the developing world are producing 6/7 kids on average per woman...we can rely on immigration in 20-30 years time to build our workforce.


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    #77
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Maybe the 60% decline in sperm count over the last 40 years might have something to do with it? This astonishing statistic is hardly ever mentioned, I have no idea why not. It's crazy.

    I had my babies when very young, with only the contents of a rucksack to my name. Am not sure why people think having children is so vastly expensive - breastfeeding, cloth nappies and people inundating you with their old baby clothes means they hardly cost a cent. I don't know, maybe want less and there won't be so much cost to living? I have actually never once thought of the children in terms of finance , honestly. Then again they had very few expensive things and it was never a problem.


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    #78
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Its for socio economic not fall in sperm count. People cwant to focus on career in their 20s, getting married later, saving for housing into their 30s...etc..

    Kids come after all of that. If you're only starting a family in your early to mid 30s, you're unlikely to want/have more than 2...assuming you even can.

    Nearly all my friends starting having children around 33-36 yrs of age.


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    #79
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Zorya wrote: »
    Am not sure why people think having children is so vastly expensive - breastfeeding, cloth nappies and people inundating you with their old baby clothes means they hardly cost a cent. I don't know, maybe want less and there won't be so much cost to living? I have actually never once thought of the children in terms of finance , honestly. Then again they had very few expensive things and it was never a problem.


    To be fair this is your experience...it wasn't mine. Creche fees is the bigger killer. Having more than 2 kids isn't affordable due to creche costs


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    #80
    FlyingMoose
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭FlyingMoose


    Growing up; I was told anecdotally that you should be looking to have one kid for Mam, one kid for Dad and one kid for the country. Makes perfect sense.


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    #81
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    jon1981 wrote: »
    To be fair this is your experience...it wasn't mine. Creche fees is the bigger killer. Having more than 2 kids isn't affordable due to creche costs

    Chose to live very rural, no creche as I worked from home, made do with less, much less money. The years pass fast, people can earn money later on. It does come down to choices. There were no foreign holidays or computers or fancy gear. It's doable. And fun. Just saying in case there are those caught up in expensive city life who want children but seem unable to afford them.


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    #82
    lisasimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭lisasimpson


    Outside the cities families tend to be bigger some of which is due to grandparents helping out with the childcare


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    #83
    joe_99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭joe_99


    Zorya wrote: »
    no creche as I worked from home

    Working from home while also minding children? Very few jobs, including jobs that can be done from home, afford that luxury.


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    #84
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,810 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Gael23 wrote: »
    Less nappies ending up in the bin can only be positive

    Who's going to generate tax ? There's a storm coming. But never fear the developing world are producing 6/7 kids on average per woman...we can rely on immigration in 20-30 years time to build our workforce.

    If we figured out how to distribute wealth more evenly, we may not need to worry so much about declining birth rates


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    #85
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    If we figured out how to distribute wealth more evenly, we may not need to worry so much about declining birth rates

    Making profit illegal? This problem has existed for centuries.


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    #86
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    joe_99 wrote: »
    Working from home while also minding children? Very few jobs, including jobs that can be done from home, afford that luxury.

    Yeah, but some obviously do. Not big bucks jobs or anything, but enough to help keep ordinary life ticking over.

    Funny that you use the word luxury - because perhaps it is the pursuit of some unnecessary luxuries that cause people to think having a family is expensive. Maybe people should enquire as to what is it all about, this 4 score years or so on a spinning planet in infinite space? Maybe it's not at all about money or stuff.


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    #87
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,810 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    If we figured out how to distribute wealth more evenly, we may not need to worry so much about declining birth rates

    Making profit illegal? This problem has existed for centuries.

    Wealth creation doesn't necessarily mean 'making profits', creating money is relatively easy, evenly distributing it though is another matter, we re potentially in one of the most unevenly wealth distributed periods of capatalism, or heading into it, we should probably do something about it


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    #88
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Are people surprised by this? People who should be having kids can’t because they’re too busy working to pay for everyone elses


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    #89
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Wealth creation doesn't necessarily mean 'making profits', creating money is relatively easy, evenly distributing it though is another matter, we re potentially in one of the most unevenly wealth distributed periods of capatalism, or heading into it, we should probably do something about it

    This is an interesting graph in relation to that area.

    DrHNwzKWwAA5GWp.jpg


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    #90
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Zorya wrote: »
    Maybe the 60% decline in sperm count over the last 40 years might have something to do with it? This astonishing statistic is hardly ever mentioned, I have no idea why not. It's crazy.

    I had my babies when very young, with only the contents of a rucksack to my name. Am not sure why people think having children is so vastly expensive - breastfeeding, cloth nappies and people inundating you with their old baby clothes means they hardly cost a cent. I don't know, maybe want less and there won't be so much cost to living? I have actually never once thought of the children in terms of finance , honestly. Then again they had very few expensive things and it was never a problem.

    Childcare


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    #91
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭baldbear


    Thank god we have the ethnic Irish having so many kids to keep the rates up. Nearly 1 in 2 have 5 kids plus compared to 1 in 24 of the general population.


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