Irish birth rate continues to fall

McGrath5

Dr Brown wrote: »

Add in abortion on demand and you will see our birth rate fall by another 20%.

That didn't take long :rolleyes:

Fighting Tao

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 words, housing crisis.

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

Also lot of people out of jobs over the last number of years only getting back on their feet now and so couldn't afford to have kids.

Sleeper12

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

We might have to invite young non Irish people into the country in years to come. Australia did the same in the 90s as their pop was aging

Taytoland

When more Muslims arrive in the Republic you will notice it go up.

Fighting Tao

Taytoland wrote: »

When more Muslims arrive in the Republic you will notice it go up.

What will the Muslim people do....Oh, I forgot that you want the Republic of Ireland to be some kind of "white" and "purified society". They would taint the nation.

Taytoland

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

When more Muslims arrive in the Republic you will notice it go up.

What will the Muslim people do....Oh, I forgot that you want the Republic of Ireland to be some kind of "white" and "purified society". They would taint the nation.

Some people might, not me. Some will see the abortion argument as a way of getting to that position.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Bob Harris wrote: »

I thought the death rate would be 100%.

And 12.9% makes sense for births, by your logic???

Who mentioned percentages anyway?

McMurphy

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Which is why most people I know have gotten themselves a private pension.

So long as they're not raided again by any future government, they should be fine.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Pensions time-bomb, yeah that’s something that’s trotted out quite often. Would be interesting to see where all these kids are going to actually find jobs, automation will do away with a hell of a lot of their jobs.

Unemployed people don’t contribute to pensions, they’ll be a drain on society.

You do realise if most jobs are done away with it means there will be fewer menial jobs to do. So as a population we get more done for less effort. This is a good thing.

200 years ago it took an entire family to grow just about enough food to try feed themselves. Now a handful of farmers can grow enough food in Ireland to feed 10's of millions. Same goes for making cars, tv's, carpets, glasses. Even apps and that kind of Software!

The only way automation will make people 'obsolete' is by the extremely rich trying to force it be that way.

Dr Brown

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Doubt it as it's already on demand for the price of a cheap flight to the UK, and since it's abortion with restriction. That bit tougher with laws than the UK but carry on doctor.

<snip>

Mod note:Take it to the Exit Poll thread, please!

BTJ

OneEightSeven

amcalester wrote: »

No need to worry, the impending influx of Middle Easterns, Africans and Asians will make up the shortfall.

With only 40% of black Africans being employed in Ireland and Muslims making up 15% of the UK's prison population, the only shortfall they will make up for is our declining crime statistics and unemployment rates.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Dr Brown wrote: »

<snip>.

OneEightSeven wrote: »

With only 40% of black Africans being employed in Ireland and Muslims making up 15% of the UK's prison population, the only shortfall they will make up for is our declining crime statistics and unemployment rates.

Both these points seem really thicker than pig sh1t. :)

Jimmy Dags

Three kids minimum to be successful for rock and roll lifestyle.

Bob Harris

OneEightSeven wrote: »

With only 40% of black Africans being employed in Ireland and Muslims making up 15% of the UK's prison population, the only shortfall they will make up for is our declining crime statistics and unemployment rates.

But with all that spare time won't the black africans have lots of time to make baybeees?

Muckie

A lot of the Africans (Nigerians) seem to have large families(5 kids plus), so for this demographic there is a population increase.
(that and the sale of japanese people carries, much to the joy of car dealers throughout the country :P)

worded

Pixel Eater wrote: »

When calculating for the future you would also have to factor in inward migration, both Irish and foreign. With the world as a whole over populated maybe a smaller increasing population isn't such a bad thing; we have a potentially a massive diaspora to delve into if needs be.

But if the Government was concerned then they could make having children more attractive. While child benefit is generous, childcare seems to be prohibitively expensive.

It’s financial castration for anyone with a job. It’s an extra mortgage per kid.

Hector Savage

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

You do realise if most jobs are done away with it means there will be fewer menial jobs to do. So as a population we get more done for less effort. This is a good thing.

200 years ago it took an entire family to grow just about enough food to try feed themselves. Now a handful of farmers can grow enough food in Ireland to feed 10's of millions. Same goes for making cars, tv's, carpets, glasses. Even apps and that kind of Software!

The only way automation will make people 'obsolete' is by the extremely rich trying to force it be that way.

Yet they will want to force it that way .... when money is to be made on the backs of the "plebians" you can bet your ass it will happen - look at it right now, look at the hellhole Amazon is ...

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mod note: Folks, any abortion referendum references WILL be deleted.


Take it to the Exit poll thread.


Buford T. Justice

Electric Sheep

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 words, housing crisis.

2 more words, pensions timebomb.

The more important two words, parenting sucks.

That's why people choose not to do it.

4068ac1elhodqr

2 more words: Robots, Automation.

The 4IR will also lower the birth rates in the developed world. In years gone by, folks usually had a bunch of young ones to carry on the farm, business, or for other social reasons.
But with Robots (automation/ai/iot/ml) becoming super-intelligent soon, and more physically capable than us mere humans, having more than 1 or 2 won't be as desireable.

seamus

It's partially down to finances - yesterday came the revelation that the average first-time buyer is now 34.

Pretty hard to start a family when you don't feel like you have a family home.

However, there are also cyclical causes - the baby boom before last was 1975ish to 1984ish. When these people turned 30ish, they started all having babies. Et voila! Baby boom no. 2.

This is now tapering off, so the overall birth rate is dropping. We should expect a drop until about 2030 when it'll start coming up again.

But the long-term trend is a lot less births, and as others have said, this does need resolving. Partially by opening up pensions at the far end; eliminate the mandatory retirement age (while maintaining a statutory pension age so people can choose to retire if they wish).

But also by increasing births at the short end; reduce the overall cost of having and raising children. And also encouraging younger people to have children. At present we talk everyone out of it until they're 30. We need to stop doing that.

Make it easier to both work and have children and people will be more inclined to have more, younger.

Atoms for Peace

Some won't be happy until we have a Gilead type state, but I suppose what other solution is their to the growing epidemic of uppity women.

sbsquarepants

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Some won't be happy until we have a Gilead type state, .

What might that be? I've never heard of a gilead type state before.

Anywho - I'm a baby making machine, the low birth rate ain't my fault!:D

worded

worded wrote: »

It’s financial castration for anyone with a job. It’s an extra mortgage per kid.

A gazillion times this. I won't know what to do with my €2400 per month that is currently going on childcare - actually, got an email from the montessori today saying they're going to raise the fee again in September.

One thing is for sure: I do not want the Irish government to give me a handout. Not because I'm in principle against handouts - they sound great! - but entirely because if they "helped" me like that the crèche/childcare centre will coincidentally increase their fees by the same amount or more, as happened last year. Government "help" like that is doing nothing to help parents. Nothing. As government policy shows, the government is much more concerned with helping the private businesses involved in childcare rather than in helping the parents.

The only solution to the travesty of childcare costs in Ireland is obvious: extend the state education system to preschool. A state-owned and run pre-school education system is, however, not even on the political radar for any political party.

Compel preschool teachers to be as qualified as primary or secondary teachers. There's a huge lack of meas for childcare professionals in Ireland - even though Ireland is a genuinely very good society in which to raise children. As I said before, the vast majority of childminders in my local crèche are Spanish, males as well as females. Irish people are a rarity. Why? 20 years ago one of my siblings raised all her children in Flanders and the pre-school childcare cost was, while not free, a token or nominal payment. 20 years ago. Irish policymakers and politicians are so backward - but they'll invent all sorts of nice-sounding "children's rights" stuff and express outrage at the treatment of children in 1956 - while doing everything to avoid providing pre-school children in 2018 with a state education system and its rights which are bestowed upon older children.

TLDR: State needs to set up state childcare facilities with as much legal standing as have state-owned primary and secondary schools rather than continue giving subventions to private businesses in the form of "helping" parents.

The Irish Times: Crèches increase fees ahead of new Government subsidy

pgj2015

Pixel Eater wrote: »

When calculating for the future you would also have to factor in inward migration, both Irish and foreign. With the world as a whole over populated maybe a smaller increasing population isn't such a bad thing; we have a potentially a massive diaspora to delve into if needs be.

But if the Government was concerned then they could make having children more attractive. While child benefit is generous, childcare seems to be prohibitively expensive.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/baby-boxes-for-parents-of-every-newborn-irelands-strategy-to-increase-birth-rate-revealed-36807832.html

Caliden

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Which is why most people I know have gotten themselves a private pension.

I'd be shocked if the government didn't change the rules around the tax free lump sum and changed the rate on 200,001 - 500,000 in the future.

facehugger99

Caliden wrote: »

I'd be shocked if the government didn't change the rules around the tax free lump sum and changed the rate on 200,001 - 500,000 in the future.

Anyone in their 20's-40's now, prudent enough to have a private pension in place, will have the bejaysus taxed out of it come retirement, to pay for feckless and reckless who haven't bothered.

Fighting Tao

It's drivers fault. So many have their phones on their laps in case they miss something on Facebook while driving, and it's making them sterile!

SusieBlue

seamus wrote: »

It's partially down to finances - yesterday came the revelation that the average first-time buyer is now 34.

Pretty hard to start a family when you don't feel like you have a family home.

However, there are also cyclical causes - the baby boom before last was 1975ish to 1984ish. When these people turned 30ish, they started all having babies. Et voila! Baby boom no. 2.

This is now tapering off, so the overall birth rate is dropping. We should expect a drop until about 2030 when it'll start coming up again.

But the long-term trend is a lot less births, and as others have said, this does need resolving. Partially by opening up pensions at the far end; eliminate the mandatory retirement age (while maintaining a statutory pension age so people can choose to retire if they wish).

But also by increasing births at the short end; reduce the overall cost of having and raising children. And also encouraging younger people to have children. At present we talk everyone out of it until they're 30. We need to stop doing that.

Make it easier to both work and have children and people will be more inclined to have more, younger.

This, a million times. I'm 27 and living with my boyfriend, in a long term relationship, and any time I mention how broody I am people look at me as if I have 2 heads.
The last person I said it to told me to enjoy my youth and think about it again in a few years.
I know I'm not old yet, but I wouldn't consider myself to be a "youth", either. You'd swear I was a 14 year old planning a baby the way she was talking!

A friend of mine is due next month, an unplanned baby, when she told her parents the news they were happy but a bit disappointed because of her age. When my parents were that age they had been married for 5 years with 3 kids, and a mortgage!

Stopping the stigma and encouraging younger people to start families would be a good way to stop the birth rate from falling. We are automatically taught that unless you are actively trying, an unplanned pregnancy is sometimes treated worse than a jail sentence. If people saw it as more of a positive thing they might be inclined to have kids younger.

ThinkProgress

seamus wrote: »

But also by increasing births at the short end; reduce the overall cost of having and raising children. And also encouraging younger people to have children. At present we talk everyone out of it until they're 30. We need to stop doing that.

Make it easier to both work and have children and people will be more inclined to have more, younger.

So basically... who gives a f*ck what type of kids we bring into the world (and hence what type of society we want), so long as we bring that birthrate up?? :rolleyes: