Sisters wanting sites

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-10-2018 02:40PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

So... If I understand correctly to qualify as a proper farmer parent I should enslave my oldest son and work him to the brink of suicide while I am expected to pay for universities and holidays of other children. They also should not lift a finger as they are going to get nothing and should sod off when my time will come?

What century are we living in right now?

That depends on whether you wish to debate the points actually made and not some fantasy scenario running riot in your imagination:rolleyes:
And I'm not the eldest child in my family...

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-10-2018 02:42PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Someone who blocks their parents doing what they want with their land is greedy.

Someone who has 200 of their parents land and refuses to give 0.75 acre to their sibling is greedy.

All you can hope for is that the family house is on the farm and when the siblings are left it they sell it to the biggest scumbag going who will never give the farmer a moments peace.

Well, it didn't take long for your colours to show, now did it?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 31-10-2018 02:44PM

mf240 wrote: »

Was it peirce Morgan that asked a young lady about her much older husband in an interview. "what first attracted you to the elderly billionaire"

I think it was Paul Daniels, the magicians, wife. The interviewer asked her what first attracted you to multi millionaire Paul Daniels:D

K.G. · 31-10-2018 02:59PM

Emme wrote: »

Lady Haywire wrote: »

To be fair, there's a lot of ambitious farming men looking for women with large assets too :pac::D

Large assets in this case doesn't mean good childbearing hips but they can be useful when it comes to bearing strong sons

carefull now. i think ive dragged this thread to new depts.bur i think it wont be long before it ll beback to drowning in misery

ganmo · 31-10-2018 03:13PM

Pelvis wrote: »

I had to do chores as a child. Maybe two hours per week, how many acres would that get me?

0.0006 ac
or as much as ya want to buy on the market

Donald Trump · 31-10-2018 03:31PM

For the people who inherit land, and moan about having had to work it for a few years and feeling entitled to it then at the expense of others, let me ask you this.

If you had instead gone out into the working world, worked your hardest, saved all your money and then tried to buy the land, would you have been able to purchase it? Would you have had the ability to find a job that would allow you to do that?

For the person inheriting 200 acres, that would mean that they would have had to have saved about 2 million (give or take). Is that realistic? That's the equivalent of 50k a year (in real terms) for 40 years. That's savings now. Which means earning 100k (pre tax) a year more than your spendings for 40 years

Basically you put up with hardship for a few years but in the knowledge it will be reapaid over and over again. I don't begrudge it to thenm, but they shouldn't begrudge a hand out to help their own family ffs

BarryD2 · 31-10-2018 03:39PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Most of the decent farms and estates were owned by Protestant Ascendancy. The Catholic Irish had the marginal land and smaller plots.

The splitting of smaller Catholic farms and lands during that time period was down to rules that Catholics had to necessarily divide their farms up like that.

The first may well be broadly true but that's got little to do with the subject at hand. They had the same pressures to hand on part of their wealth/ land to succeeding generations and ultimately that contributed to the downfall of these estates as businesses.

Pre famine in particular, there seems to have been a different concept of land management amongst the smaller farmers, mostly Catholic as you say. If a family had say four sons, they seemed to have agreed to sub divide their holdings so as to absorb all. That practice changed in the latter part of the 19th century with the oldest son typically inheriting and the others finding a life elsewhere i.e. usually emigrating. I don't think this was anything to do with 'Catholic rules', rather they were following what was custom and ideas changed.

In the same way, daughters inheriting an interest is a custom/ societal view that has mainly arisen in just recent decades.

Donald Trump · 31-10-2018 03:41PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

The first may well be broadly true but that's got little to do with the subject at hand. They had the same pressures to hand on part of their wealth/ land to succeeding generations and ultimately that contributed to the downfall of these estates as businesses.

Pre famine in particular, there seems to have been a different concept of land management amongst the smaller farmers, mostly Catholic as you say. If a family had say four sons, they seemed to have agreed to sub divide their holdings so as to absorb all. That practice changed in the latter part of the 19th century with the oldest son typically inheriting and the others finding a life elsewhere i.e. usually emigrating. I don't think this was anything to do with 'Catholic rules', rather they were following what was custom and ideas changed.

Well I learned in primary school that Catholics were forced to subdivide. If i'm wrong, I blame my old teacher. It was a long time ago but that is what we were told!

The downfall and breakup of estates was more to do with land reform. Especially the land commissions who broke them up and sold them on to smaller landholders ex-tenants

As for daughters inheriting, that's fair enough to be honest. At least in this day and age. no dowries anymore!

Becks610 · 03-11-2018 12:26PM

I think the issue with land been divided won’t be as problematic in the future- ppl are starting to have smaller families ( granted Ireland is still a bit behind the times).

I do think usually women were not even considered to inherit and often were left doing the caring and didn’t get anything. I do think that is changing , women aren’t as foolish now and this is why more people are in nursing homes. It’s up to the person who inherits to do the caring if needed in the latter years.

Mooooo · 03-11-2018 12:30PM

Becks610 wrote: »

I think the issue with land been divided won’t be as problematic in the future- ppl are starting to have smaller families ( granted Ireland is still a bit behind the times).

I do think usually women were not even considered to inherit and often were left doing the caring and didn’t get anything. I do think that is changing , women aren’t as foolish now and this is why more people are in nursing homes. It’s up to the person who inherits to do the caring if needed in the latter years.

Every family and situation is different. Care should be provided by the whole family imo, and tbh and I would be surprised by people not wanting to do as much as they could for their parents

beauf · 03-11-2018 12:55PM

The parents should sell or rent the land and buy the best private care they can.

The idea that someone can work full time and look after two patents is a bit shortsighted.

Becks610 · 03-11-2018 02:44PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Every family and situation is different. Care should be provided by the whole family imo, and tbh and I would be surprised by people not wanting to do as much as they could for their parents

As the next poster said two people can’t work full time and provide care. Imo the person who is inherits the most should provide the care as they are more financially taken care of. Obviously others should help out every now and then.

Mooooo · 03-11-2018 03:58PM

Becks610 wrote: »

As the next poster said two people can’t work full time and provide care. Imo the person who is inherits the most should provide the care as they are more financially taken care of. Obviously others should help out every now and then.

What do you think farmers do that they don't work full time.? Again it's all situation dependant so generalisations don't help but in many cases taking over the farm isn't always golden ticket it's believed to be. Many cases have siblings provided for out of the inheriting brothers/ sisters work on the farm as well as taking on any debt etc.
We only get one family, all this should be discussed prior to any passing on so every one is on the same page as to what the parents want. Every farm is different some may only be at a scale as to facilitate part time farming, others full time, others may be growing where one child may have put in alot of time/ money etc to get it to where it is at that point. Too many variables to say what every family should, or should not, be doing.
Also one would hope that most parents would have pensions etc to help for retirement. I can't speak for other families only my own but we would all do our utmost to help parents in later life

Becks610 · 03-11-2018 05:48PM

Yeah most parents have pensions as the state pension is around. Whether it will be around in 40 years is another story.

Oh I know some farmers work, some don’t some do depending on size of farm profitability etc. one poster make a point a few pages back like most people if they spent their whole life working wouldn’t be able to buy a farm so it is an asset. I do know that it’s often cash poor asset rich.

Anyway I do know of a situation ( non farming family) where the youngest child is getting the house from her father as inheritance ( large age gap between siblings) and they are left with all the minding etc to the detriment of their life etc and it’s all because they are getting a house and the others not getting as much. Father is old now and needs a lot of care/ afraid to stay at home etc so it does happen.

deiseindublin · 08-11-2018 09:34PM

Read this today and reminded me of the thread.

Maddest part is that it wasn't the daughters that brought it to court.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/widow-leaves-china-and-cutlery-to-daughters-and-3-8m-estate-to-sons-1.3691106

bfa1509 · 08-11-2018 10:03PM

deiseindublin wrote: »

Read this today and reminded me of the thread.

Maddest part is that it wasn't the daughters that brought it to court.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/widow-leaves-china-and-cutlery-to-daughters-and-3-8m-estate-to-sons-1.3691106

Why would the daughters bring it to court? They didn't put 30 years of their lives into the farm like the eldest brother did. That's why the judge ruled in his favor.

pleas advice · 09-11-2018 01:15AM

In his judgment, he said he believed the mother’s “dramatic change of heart” seemed likely to have been caused by the mother’s unhappiness at the involvement at the eldest son’s in-laws in a property dispute against her.

i want to hear more about this^

BarryD2 · 09-11-2018 12:37PM

deiseindublin wrote: »

Read this today and reminded me of the thread.

Maddest part is that it wasn't the daughters that brought it to court.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/widow-leaves-china-and-cutlery-to-daughters-and-3-8m-estate-to-sons-1.3691106

Apparently the three daughters were bequeathed some china and €5000 each! Whilst two sons were left assets approaching €4 million and the third, the eldest a site worth about €50,000.

Mad, what had she in mind?? To cause maximum strife and rows.

Dakota Dan · 09-11-2018 01:32PM

I know a woman that secretly took her father to make his will, she have 4 siblings and her father did’nt know what to do with his will so she told him that if he gave everything to her that she would divide it up between them. The father was no fool but did as she said, when he died a few years later she got his house and almost 200k in savings and the dividing up was forgotten about.

Donald Trump · 09-11-2018 02:35PM

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I know a woman that secretly took her father to make his will, she have 4 siblings and her father did’nt know what to do with his will so she told him that if he gave everything to her that she would divide it up between them. The father was no fool but did as she said, when he died a few years later she got his house and almost 200k in savings and the dividing up was forgotten about.

There is well established that all of the children have to be "looked after fairly". That can mean they were set up earlier in life or being left a fair share of the will.

By leaving them nothing, it is easy to challenge. By leaving them a small, token, amount, it makes it more difficult for them to challenge it. So in your scenario, it would be easy to challenge, and probably win something, if they had wanted to

The above reason is probably why you see these accounts of some children being left small amounts or even the China as in the case quoted

tabby aspreme · 09-11-2018 03:28PM

deiseindublin wrote: »

Read this today and reminded me of the thread.

Maddest part is that it wasn't the daughters that brought it to court.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/widow-leaves-china-and-cutlery-to-daughters-and-3-8m-estate-to-sons-1.3691106

In fairness, the headline of that article is pure Click bait, the three daughters, while receiving a small inheritance would all have been provided for before the woman died. The family have other successful business interests which the daughter's are involved with.

older by the day · 09-11-2018 04:54PM

tabby aspreme wrote: »

In fairness, the headline of that article is pure Click bait, the three daughters, while receiving a small inheritance would all have been provided for before the woman died. The family have other successful business interests which the daughter's are involved with.

True, it hard to know what happens in family's. People are given third level education and a few pound starting off in life maybe a chance to see the world, it might be the lad or lassie that gets the farm too early in life might have the regrets,

TITANIUM. · 09-11-2018 07:13PM

older by the day wrote: »

True, it hard to know what happens in family's. People are given third level education and a few pound starting off in life maybe a chance to see the world, it might be the lad or lassie that gets the farm too early in life might have the regrets,

These day the lad or lassie that gets the farm gets a life sentence.

09-11-2018 09:23PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

There is well established that all of the children have to be "looked after fairly". That can mean they were set up earlier in life or being left a fair share of the will.

By leaving them nothing, it is easy to challenge. By leaving them a small, token, amount, it makes it more difficult for them to challenge it. So in your scenario, it would be easy to challenge, and probably win something, if they had wanted to

Now to start with I would fully agree that everyone should be looked after and I can’t see why someone would have an issue with their sisters getting a site each, I know I won’t I’d my sisters wanted them. I’d be glad to have them living close by.

But just on your post, I was at an IFA information evening on succession recently, there was an accountant and solicitor on the panel. Someone asked the above about giving nothing vs giving something small, the solicitor said it’s basically unheard of in Ireland to successfully fight a will regardless of a person gets nothing or something small. He said it much be something people are picking up on from America where that sort of thing does go on.

wrangler · 09-11-2018 10:26PM

John Shrilling Grater wrote: »

Now to start with I would fully agree that everyone should be looked after and I can’t see why someone would have an issue with their sisters getting a site each, I know I won’t I’d my sisters wanted them. I’d be glad to have them living close by.

But just on your post, I was at an IFA information evening on succession recently, there was an accountant and solicitor on the panel. Someone asked the above about giving nothing vs giving something small, the solicitor said it’s basically unheard of in Ireland to successfully fight a will regardless of a person gets nothing or something small. He said it much be something people are picking up on from America where that sort of thing does go on.

I wouldn't be surprised if that decision is appealed successfully,
What's the point in making a will if it can be rubbished, if the person was alive they could give the property to who they like, it shouldn't be any different in death/
Different of course if the person wasn't of sound mind but that wasn't mentioned

Water John · 09-11-2018 10:41PM

I think the case revolves around the eldest son having put a lot of work unpaid into the land. Reasonable expectation of inheritance of that promised to him.

ganmo · 09-11-2018 11:14PM

John Shrilling Grater wrote: »

Now to start with I would fully agree that everyone should be looked after and I can’t see why someone would have an issue with their sisters getting a site each, I know I won’t I’d my sisters wanted them. I’d be glad to have them living close by.

But just on your post, I was at an IFA information evening on succession recently, there was an accountant and solicitor on the panel. Someone asked the above about giving nothing vs giving something small, the solicitor said it’s basically unheard of in Ireland to successfully fight a will regardless of a person gets nothing or something small. He said it much be something people are picking up on from America where that sort of thing does go on.

I thought there were provisions in law where spouses had to get min 50% and something like a third to the children.

L1985 · 09-11-2018 11:20PM

ganmo wrote: »

I thought there were provisions in law where spouses had to get min 50% and something like a third to the children.

That's the legal right share-basically the spouse is entitled to one third but they don't have to take it. Children just have to have been given a "reasonable provision" within their lifetime and that
Could include college etc....

Alrigghtythen · 09-11-2018 11:27PM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

These day the lad or lassie that gets the farm gets a life sentence.

If that were true why begrudge a sibling getting a bit of it?

mikeymouse · 11-11-2018 04:42PM

Sheep breeder
Registered User
Quote:
Reading this I think it’s the wife as the problem with the sisters getting sites.

The 'Littllady' has not been seen since Sheep breeder offered his take on the
whole sorry tale.

Sisters wanting sites

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