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So Michael D IS running again!

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    #5432
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    I wonder if the Fine Gael government will be putting up banners commemorating those who scorned and stood against any Irish role in WWI, like they did with Redmond banners during the Easter Rising centenary?

    Many joined to escape poverty. All the dead should be remembered IMO, however any Irish ceremony should be far removed from the trappings of British nationalism.


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    #5433
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I wonder if the Fine Gael government will be putting up banners commemorating those who scorned and stood against any Irish role in WWI, like they did with Redmond banners during the Easter Rising centenary?

    Many joined to escape poverty. All the dead should be remembered IMO, however any Irish ceremony should be far removed from the trappings of British nationalism.


    Is it ironic that those who champion Irish nationalism most are also the most critical of British nationalism?

    Is it that the glorification of British nationalism only really offends those who glorify other nationalisms?


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    #5434
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Is it ironic that those who champion Irish nationalism most are also the most critical of British nationalism?

    Is it that the glorification of British nationalism only really offends those who glorify other nationalisms?

    It's the very same train of thought of those who decry the power and structure of the EU while championing the history of the British Empire.

    It's like, "Do you even hear what you are saying".


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    #5435
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    I think it's within the realms of normalcy to be nationalist and not wish to celebrate, with equal gusto, the nationalism of others. It's okay to like your country and it's heritage.
    We can recognise and morn those who died in a war without adding to the narrative of British brand jingoism.

    Maybe the Fine Gael government will be putting up banners commemorating those who scorned and stood against any Irish role in WWI, like they did with Redmond banners during the Easter Rising centenary.


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    #5436
    Robert McGrath
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭Robert McGrath


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I think it's within the realms of normalcy to be nationalist and not wish to celebrate, with equal gusto, the nationalism of others. It's okay to like your country and it's heritage..

    On the face of it that seems fair enough, but nationalism as it’s generally understood goes beyond simply liking your country and it’s heritage in isolation. Nationalism tends to assume that there’s something unique about the country and heritage of one’s birth which is worthy of particular attachment and loyalty. Which is obviously wrong. How convenient for nationalists that they all seem to have had the good fortune to have been born into the greatest nation on earth!

    I think if you strip away such superficial common reference points as pop culture and local sports teams, an urban middle class college graduate from Ireland probably has more in common with an urban middle class college graduate from England or France or Germany than they do with a fellow Irishman from a different socioeconomic background


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    #5437
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I wonder if the Fine Gael government will be putting up banners commemorating those who scorned and stood against any Irish role in WWI, like they did with Redmond banners during the Easter Rising centenary?

    Many joined to escape poverty. All the dead should be remembered IMO, however any Irish ceremony should be far removed from the trappings of British nationalism.


    Is it ironic that those who champion Irish nationalism most are also the most critical of British nationalism?

    Is it that the glorification of British nationalism only really offends those who glorify other nationalisms?

    More ironic that what was intended as a commemorative symbol of the defence of freedom has practically become obligatory for a three to four week period, I'd suggest.


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    #5438
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users Posts: 5,469 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    More ironic that what was intended as a commemorative symbol of the defence of freedom has practically become obligatory for a three to four week period, I'd suggest.

    Obligatory for who? Is there someone pressing one into your chest every time you set foot out the door?

    Nobody judges anyone in Ireland if they see them on November 11th without a poppy on, in fact it would appear the only judgement passed every year at all is from those who are vehemently opposed to it because of 'the cause' and 'da Brits'.


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    #5439
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    Obligatory for who?

    People in the Uk, especially people in the public eye.

    If you look at the BBC, it is obviously policy - they simply don't let people on without a poppy in early November.


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    #5440
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The BBC put a poppy on a ****ing muppet (Cookie Monster) a few years ago as they expected to be criticised for not doing it, then got criticised for doing it!


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    #5441
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users Posts: 5,469 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    People in the Uk, especially people in the public eye.

    If you look at the BBC, it is obviously policy - they simply don't let people on without a poppy in early November.

    Well I said Ireland specifically.


    But are we really going to start complaining about the British Broadcasting Corporation having the gall to respect Armistice day now too??? It's almost as if this whole conversation is absurd........


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    #5442
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,119 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    It's pretty simple really, I'll wear your poppy if you wear my easter lily!


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    #5443
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    But are we really going to start complaining about the British Broadcasting Corporation having the gall to respect Armistice day now too???

    There are plenty of British people who think WW1 was a horrible mistake, that English nationalism has taken over the Poppy commemorations, and who refuse to wear a poppy.

    These people do not appear on the BBC, because... it is the Broadcasting Corporation only for a particular Britain - official britain, respectable Britain, public school Britain, establishment Britain.

    So J Random Popstar appearing on Graham Norton to plug their new single this week will have a gopher come and fit a radio mike and a poppy which is a bit creepy.


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    #5444
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Robert McGrath wrote: »
    On the face of it that seems fair enough, but nationalism as it’s generally understood goes beyond simply liking your country and it’s heritage in isolation. Nationalism tends to assume that there’s something unique about the country and heritage of one’s birth which is worthy of particular attachment and loyalty. Which is obviously wrong. How convenient for nationalists that they all seem to have had the good fortune to have been born into the greatest nation on earth!

    I think if you strip away such superficial common reference points as pop culture and local sports teams, an urban middle class college graduate from Ireland probably has more in common with an urban middle class college graduate from England or France or Germany than they do with a fellow Irishman from a different socioeconomic background

    How so?
    Hold on, you're comparing uniqueness with 'greatest nation on Earth'? I think your own hang ups may be skewing your view.
    And now you are citing similarities we all are aware of. I think you've baggage and it's seeping into your idea of nationalism. You can like your country without trying to look down on neighbours. Mind, you've heard of Great Britain? I'd say you get great laugh out of that title?

    Again, will we see banners paid for by the tax payer celebrating all those who spoke against any Irish involvement in WWI? Or is that not the done thing all of a sudden?I can see why the topic is diverted to a discussion on what nationalism is, but I was asking will WW1 commemorations receive the same broad re telling as the 1916 Rising did.


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    #5445
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users Posts: 5,469 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    There are plenty of British people who think WW1 was a horrible mistake, that English nationalism has taken over the Poppy commemorations, and who refuse to wear a poppy.

    These people do not appear on the BBC, because... it is the Broadcasting Corporation only for a particular Britain - official britain, respectable Britain, public school Britain, establishment Britain.

    So J Random Popstar appearing on Graham Norton to plug their new single this week will have a gopher come and fit a radio mike and a poppy which is a bit creepy.

    Oh, so the answer was yes? We actually have started complaining about a foreign state broadcaster commemorating the fallen, many of them from the state to which it mainly broadcasts. I think we've officially lost the plot, lads.

    For your own health I'd avoid their coverage anytime the Trooping of the Colour takes place too if you find a reasonably unassuming symbol such as a flower to be too 'on the nose'.


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    #5446
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    For your own health I'd avoid their coverage anytime the Trooping of the Colour takes place too if you find a reasonably unassuming symbol such as a flower to be too 'on the nose'.

    The creepy thing is not that the state officially commemorates their war dead - I am not interested in such commemorations but whatever.

    The creepy thing is that everyone who appears on State television must wear a symbol which is part of an unofficial, voluntary commemoration.

    It's as if RTÉ started pinning an Easter Lily badge on every single person who appears on the channel during Easter Week.

    So suddenly it looks as if everyon in the UK is on board. Eh, no. It's like the way Republicans in the UK are erased from the official picture, in which everyone loves the Royal family.


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    #5447
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Adamcp898 wrote: »
    Well I said Ireland specifically.


    But are we really going to start complaining about the British Broadcasting Corporation having the gall to respect Armistice day now too??? It's almost as if this whole conversation is absurd........

    Wait until they start complaining about people on RTE wearing shamrocks on March 17th.


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    #5448
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Leo will be in Paris for the centenary:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/IrlEmbParis/status/1060886497648353280


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    #5449
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    Congratulations to our elected president on his inauguration, just going on.
    Regardless of all debate, he is our democratically elected, by huge majority, president.
    I wish him well and good health for his presidency and future.


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    #5450
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The ceremony is practically a mass.

    The pedestal this so-called republic puts religion on is a disgrace.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #5451
    rovers_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    SNIP. Serious discussion only please.


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    #5452
    Cork Boy 53
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    The ceremony is practically a mass.

    The pedestal this so-called republic puts religion on is a disgrace.

    That was the case in times past but certainly not so anymore.


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    #5453
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Cork Boy 53 wrote: »
    That was the case in times past but certainly not so anymore.

    Really? Why did we have people blessing themselves at the urging of a clergyman at our president's inauguration this evening?

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #5454
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Really? Why did we have people blessing themselves at the urging of a clergyman at our president's inauguration this evening?

    To many people, religion is important and it is not a problem for many of those that do not consider religion important.

    I would have problems with the military trappings.

    How many were wearing poppies?


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    #5455
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    the amount of religion in that ceremony was terrible


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    #5456
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,119 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Well it did include most religions and the Athiest Society, no harm in that.
    The Blue rather than the Green is a nicer colour. Is that a Presidential colour of the original colour of Ireland?
    If anyone comes across the full text of his speech, I'd like to read it.


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    #5457
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    rovers_runner wrote: »
    No sign of the driver this evening.
    Must have snuck in the back door...
    The smear campaign didn't work. Get over it.


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    #5458
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    rovers_runner wrote: »
    No sign of the driver this evening.
    Must have snuck in the back door...
    The smear campaign didn't work. Get over it.
    Water John wrote: »
    Well it did include most religions and the Athiest Society, no harm in that.
    The Blue rather than the Green is a nicer colour. Is that a Presidential colour of the original colour of Ireland?
    If anyone comes across the full text of his speech, I'd like to read it.
    http://www.realboyle.com/the-toon-team-presidents-inauguration/


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    #5459
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Water John wrote: »
    Well it did include most religions and the Athiest Society, no harm in that.
    The Blue rather than the Green is a nicer colour. Is that a Presidential colour of the original colour of Ireland?
    If anyone comes across the full text of his speech, I'd like to read it.

    Yes, it appears to be the original Irish coat of arms, green being a relatively recent adoption:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Ireland#Presidential_Standard


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    #5460
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users Posts: 5,469 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    To many people, religion is important and it is not a problem for many of those that do not consider religion important.

    I would have problems with the military trappings.

    How many were wearing poppies?

    Well the President is the Supreme Commander of the Defence Forces. Seems apt they'd be hanging around.

    And not sure at all what point you're trying to make Re: Poppies?


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    #5461
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,119 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Couldn't remember that it was called St Patrick's Blue. could be used if we ever to UI.


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