Madeleine McCann

iamwhoiam · 04-11-2018 05:48PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

So now we have arrived at a society where anything less than 24/7 CCTV monitoring of children is bad parenting?

Is it bad parenting to let and encourage your children to climb trees? How about letting them walk or ride a bike to school?

Do you honestly genuinely not know the difference between the two situations ? Really ?

I think you do actually

Dog Man Star · 04-11-2018 05:54PM

One of the main defences of the McCanns is why they would continue to campaign for sightings of Madeline.

I've been thinking about this today. Look at it from their point of view - if they stopped, would the public response be "why have they stopped looking for her?" The finger of suspicion would be turned on them, so they kept going and going and going.

They have scaled it back in recent years and it seems to me that the finger of suspicion is turning to them. The recent BBC mini-series "The Cry" bore so many similarities to their case: an accidental death of a child, a cover-up and a media campaign to divert suspicion.

Is it at all credible to believe an opportunistic paedophile or child trafficker wandered past their apartment that night, somehow knew the children were alone, mooched in and lifted a three-year old girl from her bed in total silence and carried her away, without a shred of evidence left. No witnesses, no dna, no nothing.

Or is the police's version of events more credible. That a sedated Madeline critically injured herself falling in the apartment, was discovered by her father, carried away and hidden or buried and a cover-up instigated. The child's favourite toy washed in a washing machine, mobile phone records on the night deleted and not a second spent by either parent looking for their daughter, not one second.

Ash.J.Williams · 04-11-2018 05:59PM

cnocbui wrote: »

So now we have arrived at a society where anything less than 24/7 CCTV monitoring of children is bad parenting?

Is it bad parenting to let and encourage your children to climb trees? How about letting them walk or ride a bike to school?

Well yes if you're going out and leaving the kids at home

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 06:00PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thats a low thing to say even for you . I just said parents do the best in the circumstances . They do need to sleep
But I think you know that don't you

I have been in A and E when parents ran in with dead babies in their arms from a cot death . Its not a matter for discussion or comparison in this case

When your pretending that it’s possible to supervise babies all the time 24/7 by describing leaving doors open in order to listen for them breathing etc then yes, I think it is fair for me to put this up to you.
In real life parents take risks with their children all the time.
The McCanns and the other families with them on that holiday decided not to take advantage of the baby sitting service available to them in that complex that holiday.
The babysitting service as used by other families that night.
Are those families also neglectful?
Because the babysitting service consisted of a member of crèche staff checking every half hour.
Which is exactly what the McCanns opted to do themselves.
What is your position on this?

Ash.J.Williams · 04-11-2018 06:01PM

Dog Man Star wrote: »

The twins were not tested in time for sedatives.

Madeline woke the previous night crying for a long time, 75 minutes according to a neighbour. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Stands to reason they upped the dose on the night she died. Kate McCann's father stated they had used Calpol to sedate the children before https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/madeleines-grandfather-admits-kate-may.html

Wow calpol omg

Cyrus T Buford · 04-11-2018 06:02PM

Something Else

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

but we will never know now I reckon.

Id just like to weigh in here!

personally, i think there is a chance that someone somewhere will say something on their deathbed or something that could solve the case?!

As for those who are comparing this situation with a sleeping child with its parents in the next room....seriously??? Thats all i can really say an that matter.

iamwhoiam · 04-11-2018 06:04PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

When your pretending that it’s possible to supervise babies all the time 24/7 by describing leaving doors open in order to listen for them breathing etc then yes, I think it is fair for me to put this up to you.
In real life parents take risks with their children all the time.
The McCanns and the other families with them on that holiday decided not to take advantage of the baby sitting service available to them in that complex that holiday.
The babysitting service as used by other families that night.
Are those families also neglectful?
Because the babysitting service consisted of a member of crèche staff checking every half hour.
Which is exactly what the McCanns opted to do themselves.
What is your position on this?

Actually it didnt . In Mark Warner the baby sitting service did not consist of creche staff checking every half hour
In Praia da Luz this service was not offered as it wasn't considered safe
And I will not discuss a sensitive subject of cot death with you . Its far too important and not to be used for one upmanship on a forum

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 06:08PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

The twins were not tested in time for sedatives.

Madeline woke the previous night crying for a long time, 75 minutes according to a neighbour. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Stands to reason they upped the dose on the night she died. Kate McCann's father stated they had used Calpol to sedate the children before https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/madeleines-grandfather-admits-kate-may.html

So your theory is that they used Calpol to sedate the kids ?
But here’s a professor of children’s medicine on the sedative affects of calpol.
Are you also a professor of children’s medicine? If your not then you really should keep your nonsense theory to yourself

Terence Stephenson, professor of child health at Nottingham University, believes their use by parents may be misguided.
"Paracetamol doesn't have any sedative properties whatsoever and neither does Nurofen," he says. "It's a widespread misconception that Calpol helps children to sleep. Doctors used to prescribe antihistamines to help children sleep, but not any longer."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html

Spanish Eyes · 04-11-2018 06:11PM

Dog Man Star wrote: »

One of the main defences of the McCanns is why they would continue to campaign for sightings of Madeline.

I've been thinking about this today. Look at it from their point of view - if they stopped, would the public response be "why have they stopped looking for her?" The finger of suspicion would be turned on them, so they kept going and going and going.

They have scaled it back in recent years and it seems to me that the finger of suspicion is turning to them. The recent BBC mini-series "The Cry" bore so many similarities to their case: an accidental death of a child, a cover-up and a media campaign to divert suspicion.

Is it at all credible to believe an opportunistic paedophile or child trafficker wandered past their apartment that night, somehow knew the children were alone, mooched in and lifted a three-year old girl from her bed in total silence and carried her away, without a shred of evidence left. No witnesses, no dna, no nothing.

Or is the police's version of events more credible. That a sedated Madeline critically injured herself falling in the apartment, was discovered by her father, carried away and hidden or buried and a cover-up instigated. The child's favourite toy washed in a washing machine, mobile phone records on the night deleted and not a second spent by either parent looking for their daughter, not one second.

I have often wondered why all three kids were not abducted. No one seems to have an answer for that.

But I don't think the little girl was abducted anyway. No evidence, as you say.

Dog Man Star · 04-11-2018 06:11PM

splinter65 wrote: »

So your theory is that they used Calpol to sedate the kids ?
But here’s a professor of children’s medicine on the sedative affects of calpol.
Are you also a professor of children’s medicine? If your not then you really should keep your nonsense theory to yourself

Terence Stephenson, professor of child health at Nottingham University, believes their use by parents may be misguided.
"Paracetamol doesn't have any sedative properties whatsoever and neither does Nurofen," he says. "It's a widespread misconception that Calpol helps children to sleep. Doctors used to prescribe antihistamines to help children sleep, but not any longer."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/3314633/Are-we-using-too-much-Calpol.html

The McCanns denied ever using Calpol. However, Kate McCann's father said they did. That is the point. They are lying.

kippy · 04-11-2018 06:12PM

cnocbui wrote: »

So now we have arrived at a society where anything less than 24/7 CCTV monitoring of children is bad parenting?

Is it bad parenting to let and encourage your children to climb trees? How about letting them walk or ride a bike to school?

What do you think yourself?

Taking all factors into account was the method of minding their kids appropriate?

Dog Man Star · 04-11-2018 06:12PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I have often wondered why all three kids were not abducted. No one seems to have an answer for that.

But I don't think the little girl was abducted anyway. No evidence, as you say.

I have an answer as to why all three were not abducted. The answer is none of them were abducted.

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 06:13PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I have often wondered why all three kids were not abducted. No one seems to have an answer for that.

But I don't think the little girl was abducted anyway. No evidence, as you say.

No evidence of anything actually. So your speculation is just that, speculation, based on nothing but “feelings”, which mean absolutely nothing in the absence of facts.

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 06:14PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

I have an answer as to why all three were not abducted. The answer is none of them were abducted.

Once again that is just a “feeling” you have . Your “feelings” about this case are neither here nor there as only facts matter.

Spanish Eyes · 04-11-2018 06:15PM

splinter65 wrote: »

No evidence of anything actually. So your speculation is just that, speculation, based on nothing but “feelings”, which mean absolutely nothing in the absence of facts.

What facts have you got to enlighten us so.

iamwhoiam · 04-11-2018 06:15PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I have often wondered why all three kids were not abducted. No one seems to have an answer for that.

But I don't think the little girl was abducted anyway. No evidence, as you say.

Well I would think its a lot easier to grab one child and bundle her into car and away than grabbing three . Lets say two people were opportunists its not easy to take three and not be seen . One is a lot easier . Or Madeleine wandered out the unlocked door and a passing car whipped her in and fled ?
Anything is possible in my opinion with one but much less likely to go unnoticed with three

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 06:18PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What facts have you got to enlighten us so.

I don’t have any. But then I’m not the one who continues to gleefully cast random aspersions on the character of persons I don’t know, who I know virtually nothing about, who have suffered a terrible tragedy.

Dog Man Star · 04-11-2018 06:18PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Once again that is just a “feeling” you have . Your “feelings” about this case are neither here nor there as only facts matter.

It's not a "feeling" I have. I have read every single police statement made. I don't make opinions on anything until I have seen the facts, and here I have seen the facts.

Under Portugese law, all the facts of this case are available. I have read them, have you?

Definitely not.

Here they are: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

Why not read them, then come back to us? Or just keep spouting ****e.

The sheer ignorance of accusing me of going on gut-feelings, when that is exactly what you alone are doing.

Spanish Eyes · 04-11-2018 06:21PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t have any. But then I’m not the one who continues to gleefully cast random aspersions on the character of persons I don’t know, who I know virtually nothing about, who have suffered a terrible tragedy.

Oh get a grip. This is a ten year old total mystery. The parents were neglectful leaving their kids unattended in an open apartment in a foreign country out of the parents' view.

Something happened because of their neglect. That is a fact.

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 06:22PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

It's not a "feeling" I have. I have read every single police statement made. I don't make opinions on anything until I have seen the facts, and here I have seen the facts.

Under Portugese law, all the facts of this case are available. I have read them, have you?

Definitely not.

Here they are: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

Why not read them, then come back to us? Or just keep spouting ****e.

But you keep quoting from the McCannfiles which is nothing as you well know , except for the since discredited Portuguese police file as edited by a rather dogged determined critic of the McCanns.

Dog Man Star · 04-11-2018 06:27PM

splinter65 wrote: »

But you keep quoting from the McCannfiles which is nothing as you well know , except for the since discredited Portuguese police file as edited by a rather dogged determined critic of the McCanns.

Four lies:

1. As I "well know"?

2. The McCann files are police statements signed by those giving the statements. There are no opinions or extractions or theories.

3. "Since discredited" by whom? Detective Amaral was sued by the McCanns, but won his case on appeal. So not discredited. Actually, legally validated.

4. Edited? Not edited. The files are legally obligated to be published under Portugese law in their entirety.

Four lies in one post. Facts matter.

Your credibility in this thread is dissolved now. Bow out with what dignity you have left, before more public embarrassment.

fin12 · 04-11-2018 06:30PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

cnocbui wrote: »

Do you have children?

No I don’t but what’s the relevance of whether I have kids or not? I’d still be saying three young children shouldn’t be left alone.

tupenny · 04-11-2018 06:41PM

Something Else

There's zero evidence of an abduction.
Personally think parents are full of guilt. Didnt purposely do it but covering up ever since. An awful accident

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 06:58PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Four lies:

1. As I "well know"?

2. The McCann files are police statements signed by those giving the statements. There are no opinions or extractions or theories.

3. "Since discredited" by whom? Detective Amaral was sued by the McCanns, but won his case on appeal. So not discredited. Actually, legally validated.

4. Edited? Not edited. The files are legally obligated to be published under Portugese law in their entirety.

Four lies in one post. Facts matter.

Your credibility in this thread is dissolved now. Bow out with what dignity you have left, before more public embarrassment.

So where is Amaral now? Was he rehired by the Portuguese police after being “cleared”? If not, why not? Legally validated? Surely then restored to his former position in the police force? Or, how much compensation did he get when he was “cleared”?
The only person embarrassed here is you. You are stating your position on this case when you have absolutely no evidence to support it, otherwise how can you explain why 2 police forces from 2 different countries have totally failed to come to any conclusion ?!?
Once again your “feelings” about this matter simply not one iota.

Deusexmachina · 04-11-2018 07:15PM

Dog Man Star wrote: »

The twins were not tested in time for sedatives.

Madeline woke the previous night crying for a long time, 75 minutes according to a neighbour. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Stands to reason they upped the dose on the night she died. Kate McCann's father stated they had used Calpol to sedate the children before https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/madeleines-grandfather-admits-kate-may.html

Every parent uses Calpol. Not to ‘sedate’ the children - it’s such a deliberately provocative term.
The Portuguese police wet themselves with excitement when they found out about the Calpol because it’s not common in Portugal and they assumed it was very suspicious.
It’s calpol folks, we were all given it, we have all given it.
Arsenic it ain’t.

Sereneone · 04-11-2018 07:27PM

splinter65 wrote: »

So where is Amaral now? Was he rehired by the Portuguese police after being “cleared”? If not, why not? Legally validated? Surely then restored to his former position in the police force? Or, how much compensation did he get when he was “cleared”?
The only person embarrassed here is you. You are stating your position on this case when you have absolutely no evidence to support it, otherwise how can you explain why 2 police forces from 2 different countries have totally failed to come to any conclusion ?!?
Once again your “feelings” about this matter simply not one iota.

Amaral remained living in Portugal. He was never fired from the police force, he eventually resigned, so there is/was no question of him being re-hired/re-instated.

redshoes15 · 04-11-2018 07:33PM

If the Mc Canns and their dining companions were not doctors, lawyers or ‘professionals’ they most certainly would have been arrested and charged with child neglect following the astonishing decision to leave an unknown amount of children to fend for themselves while their parents wined and dined. For anyone to say Kate and Gerry Mc Cann have suffered enough is a disgrace. Regardless of what exactly happened that night (which we will most likely never know) as parents who left their child/children alone they are directly responsible for whatever happened to their missing child. For the record, I absolutely think they had something to do with whatever happened to the poor child and feel the wider group they dined with that night are also aware/complicit in what went on.

Deusexmachina · 04-11-2018 07:40PM

redshoes15 wrote: »

If the Mc Canns and their dining companions were not doctors, lawyers or ‘professionals’ they most certainly would have been arrested and charged with child neglect following the astonishing decision to leave an unknown amount of children to fend for themselves while their parents wined and dined. For anyone to say Kate and Gerry Mc Cann have suffered enough is a disgrace. Regardless of what exactly happened that night (which we will most likely never know) as parents who left their child/children alone they are directly responsible for whatever happened to their missing child. For the record, I absolutely think they had something to do with whatever happened to the poor child and feel the wider group they dined with that night are also aware/complicit in what went on.

‘Wined and dined’ - I have visions of Henry ViII and his court tucking into a feast with abandon.
You think the Mc Canns would have been arrested if they’ed been plumbers and that they have not suffered enough? Really? Maybe we should remove their other children from them and flog them daily?
Losing Madeline isn’t enough for you?
Jesus.

iamwhoiam · 04-11-2018 07:51PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

My daughter and family and two other families were on holidays this year in a campsite . They got up with the kids and spent all day with the kids . They dined in the evening with the kids , got them to bed and tucked in . The men went out for a pint together one night , the women went out another . So always one with the children . Another two nights they tucked all the kids into one chalet and sat outside on the patio together for a chat

Its how responsible , sensible caring young parents figure it out so their kids are safe . Its not rocket sciene its just common sense .

redshoes15 · 04-11-2018 08:03PM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

‘Wined and dined’ - I have visions of Henry ViII and his court tucking into a feast with abandon.
You think the Mc Canns would have been arrested if they’ed been plumbers and that they have not suffered enough? Really? Maybe we should remove their other children from them and flog them daily?
Losing Madeline isn’t enough for you?
Jesus.

I absolutely don’t think they have suffered enough no. They contributed to the losing of their child. In my opinion they should have been arrested and charged with child endangerment/child neglect and/or child abandonment. The 7 other people who dined with them should also have faced the same charges. Yes, I believe if this had been John and Tracey Smith from Bristol who were not doctors/middle class they would have been torn through the courts and vilified by the media from the outset of the case first breaking(and rightly so).

Madeleine McCann

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