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Madeleine McCann

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  • #302
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    When my daughter was about 18 months old, I was putting her in her cot for her nap one afternoon. I thought I had pulled the cot gate up fully. I left her as she was just asleep and I tip toed downstairs to read my book.
    10minutes later I heard an almighty thump and ran up the stairs. She had managed to pull the gate door down and fell out of the cot onto the wooden floor.
    She was unconscious and bleeding from a head wound.
    I nearly died. I got her to hospital at 100mph. She turned out fine. The hospital staff were initially very suspicious that I had hurt her myself. They rightly questioned me quite a bit.
    Moral of the story - if my daughter had died, would I have ‘deserved’ it? Which of us are the perfect parent who gets it right every time and never makes a mistake?
    Leave these poor parents alone.
    You made a mistake. Everyone does. You did not tiptoe down the stairs, put on your coat and leave the house for half an hour. You were there to hear the thud, scoop up your little girl and get her to hospital straight away. What might have happened had you not been there? If anything, your anecdote just demonstrates the McCann's negligence.
    The Mccanns knew exactly the kind of things that can happen, they would come across it regularly in their work. There is literally no excuse for leaving their little children unattended. None. Do I feel sorry for them? Of course I do. But that doesn't change the fact that they were derelict in their duty as parents.


  • #303
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    You made a mistake. Everyone does. You did not tiptoe down the stairs, put on your coat and leave the house for half an hour. You were there to hear the thud, scoop up your little girl and get her to hospital straight away. What might have happened had you not been there? If anything, your anecdote just demonstrates the McCann's negligence.
    The Mccanns knew exactly the kind of things that can happen, they would come across it regularly in their work. There is literally no excuse for leaving their little children unattended. None. Do I feel sorry for them? Of course I do. But that doesn't change the fact that they were derelict in their duty as parents.

    And the most bizarre thing was when Kate said in an interview that Madeleine asked her that morning ‘why didn’t you come when we were crying last night’. Kate then goes on to imply to the viewer ‘that might mean someone tried the same thing the night before’ without even realising most sane people are thinking ‘holy crap, what kind of heartless person then proceeds to leave them completely alone again that same bloody night??!!’.

    The thought that the children’s own distress should put a dent in their social life doesn’t even seem to register. Crazy stuff.


  • #304
    optimist16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭optimist16


    Don't shoot me over the timing, I don't do conspiracy theories, but for those interested.....

    https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13082-what-s-the-evidence-that-madeleine-died-on-sunday-29-april


  • #305
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    You made a mistake. Everyone does. You did not tiptoe down the stairs, put on your coat and leave the house for half an hour. You were there to hear the thud, scoop up your little girl and get her to hospital straight away. What might have happened had you not been there? If anything, your anecdote just demonstrates the McCann's negligence.
    The Mccanns knew exactly the kind of things that can happen, they would come across it regularly in their work. There is literally no excuse for leaving their little children unattended. None. Do I feel sorry for them? Of course I do. But that doesn't change the fact that they were derelict in their duty as parents.

    Nobody is offering any excuse. How many times do I have to post that they were utterly wrong to leave their kids exposed like that?
    Again, my point is that this does NOT make them killers. It does NOT mean they deserve the pain and suffering they have had to endure all these years. It does NOT make you morally superior to them. It does NOT mean they are ‘hiding something’. It does NOT mean they don’t deserve our sympathy.
    We won’t have to wait long for yet another post saying ‘yeah but what about the parents leaving their children alone....
    ‘


  • #306
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Nobody is offering any excuse. How many times do I have to post that they were utterly wrong to leave their kids exposed like that?
    Again, my point is that this does NOT make them killers. It does NOT mean they deserve the pain and suffering they have had to endure all these years. It does NOT make you morally superior to them. It does NOT mean they are ‘hiding something’. It does NOT mean they don’t deserve our sympathy.
    We won’t have to wait long for yet another post saying ‘yeah but what about the parents leaving their children alone....
    ‘

    And you will pop along and repeat your opinion . Is yours more important that the rest of us must obey and do as you say ?
    This is a discussion forum for opinions and no one has the right to ask others to stop writing any point they wish to express .
    If you have issue with posters saying they did harm Madeleine then take it up with them and argue the point with them

    For the record , and I do not appreciate being accused of saying otherwise , I do not think The Mc Canns harmed their child physically and I repeat for your information I never once posted or inferred that they did


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  • #307
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    A tad precious?

    Yes, the Mc Canns were wrong to leave their children alone. Have you any other point to make or is that it?


  • #308
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    A tad precious?

    Yes, the Mc Canns were wrong to leave their children alone. Have you any other point to make or is that it?

    A tad precious ! You are the one who couldn't read my post and completely miss interpreted it !! Yes Oddly enough I like to point out to posters that they wrongly accused me . If that's precious than so be it
    And i will make any point I like here on this thread even if it bothers you . I will not be told to stop
    I have others points Yes , what would you like to discuss ?


  • #309
    abff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭abff


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    foxyladyxx wrote: »
    Maddie McCann is dead .She died on holiday with her parents. . possibly accidently but it was covered up . .I can provide proof of that.

    If you have proof, furnish it. Otherwise you are just lobbing a grenade into a crowded room and then retiring to a safe distance to watch the carnage. Shame on you.


  • #310
    nc6000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭nc6000


    The parents did it
    optimist16 wrote: »
    I'd missed this so in case you did too....
    They're short.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y42_8vggMNQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HwA79IjsWo

    Football?

    He's so quick to stop her.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9mcOMnx0Kc

    There's a lot under Jane Tanner on YT

    Not sure there was much football on that evening although it is an odd thing for her to say as is his reaction.

    https://www.soccerbase.com/matches/results.sd?date=2007-05-03


  • #311
    fin12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    If you leave a child alone and they then die because of your neglect, you should at the very least be charged with manslaughter.


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  • #312
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    nc6000 wrote: »
    Not sure there was much football on that evening although it is an odd thing for her to say as is his reaction.

    https://www.soccerbase.com/matches/results.sd?date=2007-05-03

    That is interesting. Tanner confirms he was gone a long time. So this would correlate with my suggestion that Kate didn't know what happened, until Gerry told her.

    This would explain her "they've taken her" when Kate went to the house and washing Madeline's favourite toy.

    He certainly wasn't watching football, looking at that fixtures list.


  • #313
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,094 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    fin12 wrote: »
    If you leave a child alone and they then die because of your neglect, you should at the very least be charged with manslaughter.

    Very, very slippery slope, that one.

    First off, none of us knows that Madeline isn't alive. Secondly, the McCanns actions didn't count as neglect. The legal system has no punishment available to it that can even begin to match what caring parents suffer on losing a child.


  • #314
    fin12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    cnocbui wrote: »
    Very, very slippery slope, that one.

    First off, none of us knows that Madeline isn't alive. Secondly, the McCanns actions didn't count as neglect. The legal system has no punishment available to it that can even begin to match what caring parents suffer on losing a child.

    So leaving your three year old and 2 year old twins alone isn’t neglect. That’s news to me.


  • #315
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    fin12 wrote: »
    So leaving your three year old and 2 year old twins alone isn’t neglect. That’s news to me.


    Only if you're a junkie.


  • #316
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,094 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    fin12 wrote: »
    So leaving your three year old and 2 year old twins alone isn’t neglect. That’s news to me.

    Not neglect either in Portugal or the UK. The internet would see 99% of humanity locked up.


  • #317
    fin12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    cnocbui wrote: »
    Not neglect either in Portugal or the UK. The internet would see 99% of humanity locked up.

    Really so why do people bother with childcare and babysitters so, I don’t know anyone who would leave kids that young alone for even a minute.


  • #318
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,094 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    fin12 wrote: »
    Really so why do people bother with childcare and babysitters so, I don’t know anyone who would leave kids that young alone for even a minute.

    Do you have children?


  • #319
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    fin12 wrote: »
    Really so why do people bother with childcare and babysitters so, I don’t know anyone who would leave kids that young alone for even a minute.

    Well can only speak for myself but I didn't because they were precious and it was my responsibility to keep them safe.
    The law didn't matter really as I knew e they needed to be safe and cared for
    My guess is the vast majority are the same

    As for the law , well its an ass sometimes


  • #320
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cnocbui wrote: »
    Not neglect either in Portugal or the UK. The internet would see 99% of humanity locked up.

    Are you saying that 99% of parents would leave three under fours alone ?


  • #321
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,094 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Are you saying that 99% of parents would leave three under fours alone ?

    All parents leave their children alone at some point, sometimes for 7 or 8 hours at a time - particularly at night.


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  • #322
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cnocbui wrote: »
    All parents leave their children alone at some point, sometimes for 7 or 8 hours at a time - particularly at night.

    No they do not .being in the same house is not leaving them alone . It really isnt and well you know it .


  • #323
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    https://www.herfamily.ie/parenthood/age-kids-need-can-leave-home-alone-248132


    But things have changed since then, and now you can actually end up getting yourself prosecuted for neglect should you leave your child unattended and certainly if you let them stay home alone.

    According to the NSPCC, their helpline always receives an increase in calls between July and September with concerns from adults about kids being left unattended, and last year, three-quarters of the 453 calls they received were so series, they were passed on to police or social services.

    So what is the legal age kids can be left home alone?

    Well, unfortunately, you will find that there isn't one. As in; the law doesn’t state a specific age when you can leave a child on their own, but beware, it is an offense to leave a child alone if it places them at risk



    https://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/2015/07/31/news/what-age-would-you-leave-your-child-home-alone--205945/

    he issue of what age and for how long parents should leave children alone has repeatedly sparked controversy.

    High-profile cases range from parents arrested after leaving children for a few minutes to the extreme of a mother being given a suspended sentence after leaving her kids at home while she flew to Australia for several weeks.


  • #324
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    No they do not .being in the same house is not leaving them alone . It really isnt and well you know it .

    To be fair to the McCanns the children were in a bedroom in the same complex as they were.


  • #325
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    To be fair to the McCanns the children were in a bedroom in the same complex as they were.

    No were not . ? They were across a garden , path , shrubs and a swimming pool away from them in a Tapas bar eating dinner .Its not an enclosed complex , its apartments open to the public road on both sides .I presume we all know that it most definetly was not within hearing distance or indeed visually seen from there


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/madeleine-mccann-the-world-took-notice-when-a-little-girl-went-missing-in

    Scroll down to the see the map of the apartment and where it lies


  • #326
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cnocbui wrote: »
    All parents leave their children alone at some point, sometimes for 7 or 8 hours at a time - particularly at night.

    Ridiculous analogy. Being downstairs while your child is upstairs asleep is not even remotely the same as leaving them alone in a strange apartment (when they had cried and asked for you the night before) while you wine and dine yourself across the resort incapable of seeing or hearing a thing. Jesus my sister would barely leave her toddlers alone to hang the clothes out on the line. I’m aware there’s a massive divide in opinion in relation to whether or not people think they were involved; but I had assumed that their complete negligence of their children’s welfare that night is something we could all agree on.
    How can anyone defend that?


  • #327
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Something Else
    there is a huge diference between having a child in bed in a upstairs bedroom while your in another bedroom or downstairs in a locked house versus leaving 3 toddlers in an unlocked strange hotel room while your several hundred meters away in a noisy resturant with 8 of your friends drinking and eating.


  • #328
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    So when people here go to hotels and put the children to bed they don’t leave the room? Or just one at a time?


  • #329
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,269 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    So when people here go to hotels and put the children to bed they don’t leave the room? Or just one at a time?

    There would always be at least one responsible person in the room with them or in the interlocking room next door if it was a room setup like that.
    But again. This would be a totally different setup to the one the McCanns were in.


  • #330
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    So when people here go to hotels and put the children to bed they don’t leave the room? Or just one at a time?

    Babysitters can be hired and are. I know that's what my family members do when they go away with their young kids, and then go downstairs for a drink or two!

    It is a small price to pay for peace of mind and shows they care a lot for their children too. Most hotels will provide babysitters if needed.


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  • #331
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    So when people here go to hotels and put the children to bed they don’t leave the room? Or just one at a time?

    First of all the Mc Canns were not in a hotel . They were in an apartment on a public path
    As for your question , Yes absolutely one of us stayed in the room with the children .Would you not ? I have never left a child in a hotel room alone


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