Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

spacecoyote · 27-10-2018 4:05pm

amandstu wrote: »

Has anyone got an opinion as to what degree (in an ideological way) Trump feeds off his base vs how it feeds off him?

I was struck by the "GOD GREAT Spirit Blessings" under your president and mine on the side of the Magabomber's van...

Does he believe that c*** or did he just lift it from somewhere?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/people-are-changing-their-views-on-race-and-gender-issues-to-match-their-party/

Interesting article on this topic from 538 which seems to be suggesting that it's the base feeding off the parties policies, rather than the converse.

I'm sure there is a bit of a cyclical process of them feeding of each other too though

everlast75 · 27-10-2018 5:46pm

For some reason, and I think that reason is Trump continuously acts like a complete ******, I'd actually forgotten that he announced at a rally that Obama founded ISIS.

So, anyone saying that he didn't incite hatred or that the left is as guilty as the right, can simply go and......

everlast75 · 27-10-2018 10:57pm

Trump, on the day of a gunman killing 11 jews, stated
1) he was having a bad day because his hair was all messed up
2) complained again about how the press treated him
3) said that if there was a good guy with a gun there, the shooting would have been prevented. 3 policemen were shot
4) that he was holding his rally as he remembered the NYE opened the day after 9/11. It didn't- it opened 6 days later.

The guy is a tone deaf, utter embarrassment.

Water John · 27-10-2018 11:38pm

He also went with the to him important notion that the shooter wasn't a supporter of Trump. It always comes back to himself.

This may not be true as the perpetrator was concerned at the immigrant caravan that has been hyped by Trump. He believed the Jews were helping the immigrants. More stuff spewed by Trump.

PropJoe10 · 27-10-2018 11:43pm

It's pretty remarkable how someone in the office of the POTUS can be so consistently dumb. It's just so tiring.

Hhugedick · 27-10-2018 11:47pm

PropJoe10 wrote: »

It's pretty remarkable how someone in the office of the POTUS can be so consistently dumb. It's just so tiring.

Will he get a second term? Surely not if he keeps going the way he is

Water John · 27-10-2018 11:50pm

It is really up to the Dems to get their vote out for the Mid Terms. If it is seen that his support is toxic the GOP will melt away from him.

PropJoe10 · 28-10-2018 12:16am

Hhugedick wrote: »

Will he get a second term? Surely not if he keeps going the way he is

If the Dems don't take the Senate then I think he will. If they take the Senate, then they can use their majority to disrupt his agenda and hopefully marginalise him.

If the Dems don't take the Senate, they'll be on the back foot for the rest of his first term and it'll be very hard for any Democrat to put up a decent campaign to challenge him. His core base will never desert him.

Water John · 28-10-2018 12:44am

The Senate is an improbable high ask, House of Reps more realistic.

BabyCheeses · 28-10-2018 12:56am

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump, on the day of a gunman killing 11 jews, stated
1) he was having a bad day because his hair was all messed up
2) complained again about how the press treated him
3) said that if there was a good guy with a gun there, the shooting would have been prevented. 3 policemen were shot
4) that he was holding his rally as he remembered the NYE opened the day after 9/11. It didn't- it opened 6 days later.

The guy is a tone deaf, utter embarrassment.

As well as that there was a guy who tried shooting up a black church but failed so shot some black people elsewhere and the magabomber. Hasnt been a great week for him.

puzl · 28-10-2018 7:41am

PropJoe10 wrote: »

.

If the Dems don't take the Senate, they'll be on the back foot for the rest of his first term and it'll be very hard for any Democrat to put up a decent campaign to challenge him. His core base will never desert him.

It is highly unlikely the Dems will take the Senate. Too few seats are up for reelection and most of those that are are incumbent Democrats.

Holding the house of reps will hopefully be enough to put the brakes on Trump.

Rhineshark · 28-10-2018 8:29am

BabyCheeses wrote: »

As well as that there was a guy who tried shooting up a black church but failed so shot some black people elsewhere and the magabomber. Hasnt been a great week for him.

Yeah, but he called himself a nationalist, blamed CNN and then said if the synagogue had had armed guards things would have been different. And his brainwashed followers think it's a false flag.

So all in all, even people being murdered can work for a man without the slightest shred of morals.

everlast75 · 28-10-2018 8:54am

At this stage, you cannot be an "a la carte" supporter.

You have to own all of it, the incompetence, the race baiting, the partisan vitriol, the deterioration of political standards, the corruption, the voter interference, the criminal charges and ALL of the consequences

Rhineshark · 28-10-2018 9:12am

everlast75 wrote: »

At this stage, you cannot be an "a la carte" supporter.

You have to own all of it, the incompetence, the race baiting, the partisan vitriol, the deterioration of political standards, the corruption, the voter interference, the criminal charges and ALL of the consequences

But they never will. It's all lies because a global plot that started in the 1980s against a Trump presidency is *so much more likely* than Trump and his government of deplorables being awful people.

Captain Obvious · 28-10-2018 9:18am

Water John wrote: »

The Senate is an improbable high ask, House of Reps more realistic.

Especially when multiple GOP candidates are openly cheating and getting away with it.

Igotadose · 28-10-2018 9:28am

PropJoe10 wrote: »

If the Dems don't take the Senate then I think he will. If they take the Senate, then they can use their majority to disrupt his agenda and hopefully marginalise him.

If the Dems don't take the Senate, they'll be on the back foot for the rest of his first term and it'll be very hard for any Democrat to put up a decent campaign to challenge him. His core base will never desert him.

The Dems don't have to take the senate to keep Trump from causing more legislative mischief - nothing will get sent to Trump for signature (kind of like what the tGOP did for the last 6 years of Obama's presidency, unless you count dozens of Obamacare repeal bills.)

Nothing much will help with executive orders or regulations the Congress can't control. If he has to nominate another SC judge, they can delay that. But this only works if they take the House. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-have-a-whac-a-mole-problem-in-the-senate/ is saying 1 in 6 to take the Senate. One never knows though and it does seem like there's a lot of enthusiasm for voting right now.

Captain Obvious · 28-10-2018 9:39am

Igotadose wrote: »

The Dems don't have to take the senate to keep Trump from causing more legislative mischief - nothing will get sent to Trump for signature (kind of like what the tGOP did for the last 6 years of Obama's presidency, unless you count dozens of Obamacare repeal bills.)

Nothing much will help with executive orders or regulations the Congress can't control. If he has to nominate another SC judge, they can delay that. But this only works if they take the House. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-have-a-whac-a-mole-problem-in-the-senate/ is saying 1 in 6 to take the Senate. One never knows though and it does seem like there's a lot of enthusiasm for voting right now.

There are two states where votes are being changed from democrat to republican by the machines. How do the democrats win against something like that?

Rhineshark · 28-10-2018 9:41am

Captain Obvious wrote: »

There are two states where votes are being changed from democrat to republican by the machines. How do the democrats win against something like that?

And then there's Georgia in general. If yer man doesn't win 70+% of the vote with all the messing around he's incompetant as well as actively damaging democracy.

Igotadose · 28-10-2018 10:22am

Just when it looks like the US can't get worse, now it seems like a horde of gun-toting lawless yahoos are heading to the border to prevent the scary caravan of unarmed women and children from crossing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/migrant-caravan-us-armed-militia-groups-mexico-texas-border-trump-immigration-a8604371.html

All this is on Trump. Anyone hurt by this can blame Trump. Period.

Maybe the POTUS can direct his 800 troops to intercept these 'militiamen' and get them to disarm. That'd be amusing - the militiamen finally learning they can't really stand up to US armed forces and go back to being weekend warriors at gun ranges.

Hurrache · 28-10-2018 2:58pm

Since I last read about this I thought it would be resolved by now, but amazingly there seems to be nothing done to resolve it
https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1055912575093792768?s=19

Manic Moran · 28-10-2018 5:23pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

There are two states where votes are being changed from democrat to republican by the machines. How do the democrats win against something like that?

Texas, as posted above, was found to be operator error. The machines were fine when used correctly.

What's the other State?

everlast75 · 28-10-2018 5:58pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Texas, as posted above, was found to be operator error. The machines were fine when used correctly.

What's the other State?

Seems its only Texas.

That said, the op is correct. With whats going on in Dodge, Georgia etc etc. the cards are stacked against.

pixelburp · 28-10-2018 6:01pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Texas, as posted above, was found to be operator error. The machines were fine when used correctly.

What's the other State?

Operator error or not, is there any sign that the incorrect votes will be reversed? Because if not - and last I'd heard no action was to be take - that's where the problem lies, and frankly the votes should be either negated or re-run. Anything else is a perversion of democracy.

Captain Obvious · 28-10-2018 6:31pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Texas, as posted above, was found to be operator error. The machines were fine when used correctly.

What's the other State?

Texas is not fine. The machines are not fit for purpose if they contain such a ridiculous flaw. And this flaw has been known for 10 years. There's also a number of dirty tricks going on too. Then you have the voter suppression. Perhaps you've simply forgotten what it's like to live in a functioning democracy where politicians don't try and stop you voting but try convince you to vote for them.

The other state is Georgia. It's been mentioned a number of times.

Celticfire · 28-10-2018 8:16pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Texas is not fine. The machines are not fit for purpose if they contain such a ridiculous flaw. And this flaw has been known for 10 years. There's also a number of dirty tricks going on too. Then you have the voter suppression. Perhaps you've simply forgotten what it's like to live in a functioning democracy where politicians don't try and stop you voting but try convince you to vote for them.

The other state is Georgia. It's been mentioned a number of times.

You said there were two states that the machines were changing votes. I haven't seen anything about voting machines in Georgia changing votes.

If the machines in Texas are not fit for purpose then this flaw that allows users to make these errors would affect Republicans and Democrat voters equally.

spacecoyote · 28-10-2018 9:02pm

Celticfire wrote: »

You said there were two states that the machines were changing votes. I haven't seen anything about voting machines in Georgia changing votes.

If the machines in Texas are not fit for purpose then this flaw that allows users to make these errors would affect Republicans and Democrat voters equally.

If I read it correctly this isn't what was happening though. If you voted Staight Democrat on the ballot it was flipping Beto to Cruz, but the converse was not happening if you voted straight Republican (I'm open to correction on that though)

Rhineshark · 28-10-2018 10:08pm

spacecoyote wrote: »

If I read it correctly this isn't what was happening though. If you voted Staight Democrat on the ballot it was flipping Beto to Cruz, but the converse was not happening if you voted straight Republican (I'm open to correction on that though)

Yeah, I haven't seen reports of the converse happening either.

everlast75 · 28-10-2018 10:44pm

4 pages of constant justified criticism of Trump.

Nothing.

Somebody posts one post thay "may" be slightly off. All of a sudden, the supporters are all over it.

If the supporters are that vociferous about facts, please explain how they can support someone so oblivious to them!

PopePalpatine · 29-10-2018 1:16am

I think they're busy with Portuguese lessons.

aloyisious · 29-10-2018 10:45am

Igotadose wrote: »

Just when it looks like the US can't get worse, now it seems like a horde of gun-toting lawless yahoos are heading to the border to prevent the scary caravan of unarmed women and children from crossing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/migrant-caravan-us-armed-militia-groups-mexico-texas-border-trump-immigration-a8604371.html

All this is on Trump. Anyone hurt by this can blame Trump. Period.

Maybe the POTUS can direct his 800 troops to intercept these 'militiamen' and get them to disarm. That'd be amusing - the militiamen finally learning they can't really stand up to US armed forces and go back to being weekend warriors at gun ranges.

If the posse get's to the border area ahead of the troops, the idea of the US Military in a face-off with non-military people dressed in a mix of military gear carrying weapons near the border sound's probable. Wouldn't be a good mix.

Christy42 · 29-10-2018 11:03am

Manic Moran wrote: »

Captain Obvious wrote: »

There are two states where votes are being changed from democrat to republican by the machines. How do the democrats win against something like that?

Texas, as posted above, was found to be operator error. The machines were fine when used correctly.

What's the other State?

If voted get flipped without the user realising that means Texas is no longer a serious democracy. I don't care which way they get flipped it should never happen.

As for the user error thing, it isn't. It is a terrible design from the company that confuses people's votes. People will always race through when they know their choices. If a machine can't deal with it it is not fit for purpose. They are just trying to shift the blame.

This is in addition to Trump's violent rhetoric coming home to roost and how unapologetic he is over the recent attacks. Are lower taxes really worth all these attacks?

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-10-2018 12:21pm

Trumps latest tweet

Check out @realDonaldTrump’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056879122348195841?s=09

Again calling the press "The true enemy of the people"!

everlast75 · 29-10-2018 12:23pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Trumps latest tweet

Check out @realDonaldTrump’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056879122348195841?s=09

Again calling the press "The true enemy of the people"!

He blames the media.

A viable bomb gets sent to CNN.

Any "normal" person would wind their neck in and cool it.

But not Donny. He always doubles down.

I challenge ANY Trump supporter to agree with him here. I'll wait...

Igotadose · 29-10-2018 12:31pm

everlast75 wrote: »

He blames the media.

A viable bomb gets sent to CNN.

Any "normal" person would wind their neck in and cool it.

But not Donny. He always doubles down.

I challenge ANY Trump supporter to agree with him here. I'll wait...

Trump hasn't told them what to say yet.

Christy42 · 29-10-2018 12:51pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Trumps latest tweet

Check out @realDonaldTrump’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056879122348195841?s=09

Again calling the press "The true enemy of the people"!

Ah here. He absolutely knows it is crap like this that is encouraging people to take matters into their own hands.

The more that people are convinced that they are at war with people in their own country the more violent they will become. The more he drives the US vs them the more violent they will become.

I get idealogical differences but he could frame it as such instead of this war style rhetoric.

Rhineshark · 29-10-2018 12:51pm

everlast75 wrote: »

He blames the media.

A viable bomb gets sent to CNN.

Any "normal" person would wind their neck in and cool it.

But not Donny. He always doubles down.

I challenge ANY Trump supporter to agree with him here. I'll wait...

"How dare you liberals politicise this!" is the main one I'm seeing.

hill16bhoy · 29-10-2018 1:04pm

Rhineshark wrote: »

"How dare you liberals politicise this!" is the main one I'm seeing.

The old right-wing cliche bingo.

The yawning intellectual void at the heart of Trumpism and conservatism in general these days is stunning.

everlast75 · 29-10-2018 1:23pm

He has become ever more blatant now in terms of his riling his base.

Speaks of desperation. I wonder is an indictment imminent. Are the numbers for the midterms worse than we know.

Either that, or he is just a sociopath.

pixelburp · 29-10-2018 1:36pm

Does Trump know calling the press "The Enemy of the People" is winding up his extreme supporters towards violence? Probably, you'd want to be really closeted.

Does he care? No, of course not, and same goes for anyone who benefits from this, voting supressiom, gerrymandering, etc.

batgoat · 29-10-2018 1:36pm

everlast75 wrote: »

He has become ever more blatant now in terms of his riling his base.

Speaks of desperation. I wonder is an indictment imminent. Are the numbers for the midterms worse than we know.

Either that, or he is just a sociopath.

Plus he's gonna have even more investigations post the midterms. The dems are expected to open them when they take the house. So we're moving to a point where his actual capabilities to do anything will be severely limited imho.

robinph · 29-10-2018 2:36pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Does Trump know calling the press "The Enemy of the People" is winding up his extreme supporters towards violence? Probably, you'd want to be really closeted.

Does he care? No, of course not, and same goes for anyone who benefits from this, voting supressiom, gerrymandering, etc.

I'd rather hope that he's too stupid to realise what he's doing, as if it's deliberate then it is far too sinister to think about.

There is much more to support the claim that he's just stupid and doesn't care than it being any expertly executed masterplan to destroy the country/ world as if that were the case then he's still a bit rubbish at it. The trouble he is causing is more by accident than design.

Nothing points to him being anything other than an idiot who likes to play golf a lot.

prawnsambo · 29-10-2018 3:02pm

robinph wrote: »

I'd rather hope that he's too stupid to realise what he's doing, as if it's deliberate then it is far too sinister to think about.

There is much more to support the claim that he's just stupid and doesn't care than it being any expertly executed masterplan to destroy the country/ world as if that were the case then he's still a bit rubbish at it. The trouble he is causing is more by accident than design.

Nothing points to him being anything other than an idiot who likes to play golf a lot.

I'm not so sure. That stuff is straight out of the Steve Bannon playbook. It's not something that he just came up with. There are other things he does that strike me as at least cunning if not downright subversive. Like tweeting vociferously when there's some bad news in the offing and he wants to drown it out. Doubling down on something that's caused outrage is another basic troll device. Coming out with the 'enemy of the people' trope at this time is very calculated. At a time when people are looking at news about shootings and attempted bombings that were quite clearly carried out by people who if not out and out supporters, at the very least, were against targets whom Trump decries regularly.

everlast75 · 29-10-2018 3:15pm

Oh my ****ing God!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056919064906469376?s=19

There is no excuse for this. Its frankly outrageous. People are going to die.. scratch that - "more" people are going to die.

Absolutely crazy stuff. Why hasn't someone removed this lunatic yet?

Rhineshark · 29-10-2018 3:19pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Oh my ****ing God!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056919064906469376?s=19

There is no excuse for this. Its frankly outrageous. People are going to die.. scratch that - "more" people are going to die.

Absolutely crazy stuff. Why hasn't someone removed this lunatic yet?

Jesus, playing up "invasion" with damnfool wannabe "militia" folks charging down to the border. That's not going to go badly wrong at all.

amandstu · 29-10-2018 3:28pm

Have I heard it right that about a third of the votes have already been cast?

Would that make it very hard for the Republicans to hold onto the Congress as we already know the political climate those votes were cast in (consistently more favourable to Democrats)

So ,on the day the Republicans would need something like 60/40 to turn it round...

That's too simplistic?

eire4 · 29-10-2018 3:35pm

amandstu wrote: »

Have I heard it right that about a third of the votes have already been cast?

Would that make it very hard for the Republicans to hold onto the Congress as we already know the political climate those votes were cast in (consistently more favourable to Democrats)

So ,on the day the Republicans would need something like 60/40 to turn it round...

That's too simplistic?

It will be interesting to see what the final voter turnout is given the normally pathetic voter turnout in the US it was 54% at the last presidential election and of course the very significant voter suppression efforts that are underway as well.

hill16bhoy · 29-10-2018 3:42pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Oh my ****ing God!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1056919064906469376?s=19

There is no excuse for this. Its frankly outrageous. People are going to die.. scratch that - "more" people are going to die.

Absolutely crazy stuff. Why hasn't someone removed this lunatic yet?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free, so I can machine gun them. That'll REALLY annoy the STUPID LIBERAL SNOWFLAKES!!!!!!"

amandstu · 29-10-2018 3:43pm

eire4 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what the final voter turnout is given the normally pathetic voter turnout in the US it was 54% at the last presidential election and of course the very significant voter suppression efforts that are underway as well.

Saw something today that it was very high and was breaking around approx 35/25 approve/disapprove against Trump although of course he is not on the ballot.

Even so the Senate is not expected to shift.

amandstu · 29-10-2018 3:45pm

hill16bhoy wrote: »

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free, so I can machine gun them. That'll REALLY annoy the STUPID LIBERAL SNOWFLAKES!!!!!!"

Not sure if there aren't restrictions on how the military can be used in these sort of circumstances (just something I may have heard)

hill16bhoy · 29-10-2018 3:52pm

amandstu wrote: »

Not sure if there aren't restrictions on how the military can be used in these sort of circumstances (just something I may have heard)

Oh I'm sure there'll be plenty of good ol' boys lined up at the border. Shooting a poor Honduran family must be the wet dream of every "white patriot militia" man.

They think this is the Alamo, or something.

Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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