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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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    #7442
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Long ballots are not the point Manic. The voters selection was changed!

    Long ballots maybe increase the complexity to both the system and the voter but surely makinga selection should mean just that.

    I agree with you as far as that goes, but length and complexity of the ballot have nothing to do with it. Both you and Seamus have stated that it serves an intentional suppression effect.


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    #7443
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Before last night's really, there were chants of CNN sucks.

    During rallies after Clinton was targeted, they chanted "lock her up"

    After Dobbs floated the false flag theory, the President repeated that conspiracy theory.

    After the fbi confirmed they were real bombs, this is where some of his supporters went to...

    https://twitter.com/11thHour/status/1055988302749163520?s=19


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    #7444
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,509 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    There really is nothing you can say or do to talk to people like that. They are prepared to make up anything in order to preserve the feeling that they are right. People have mentioned a cult, and in many ways it is very like religion. One has a belief and any and all information needs to be twisted in order to fit in with that belief.

    I just think that reporters such as that should merely ask that person why they claim to want to MAGA yet are so unconcerned with a direct attack on politicians within the country? What would they want done if ISIS tried to same thing against the GOP for example?


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    #7445
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,509 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    Putting aside that this idiot could have killed multiple people, the irony is he's done irreparable damage for the mid terms elections at literally the worst possible time. He'll be made an example out of and rightly so, political violence of any kind should not be tolerated. I'm not tone deaf enough to suggest his acts are comparable to recent events or the rising heat between political divisions, if he gets put away for life some good might come out of it to calm the discourse. No matter peoples differences intimidation or violence must not tolerated under any circumstance.

    In an ideal world Trump, Democratic leaders and some media heads should get together in a show of revolve and reinstate that their differences can only be settled through discourse and the ballot box. That's the only way Trump comes out of this in a positive light, but judging from his tweets earlier that I rolled my eyes at that's not going to happen. You can't put direct blame on anyone in this situation for the actions of others, but it's not black and white. Some of Trump's rhetoric has been very bad.

    A mild rebuke there 2Scoops. Trump has been appalling on this. One can argue all day about what level of blame lies with him and his rhetoric, but the craven and conspiratorial way that he has dealt with this, despite of course having direct knowledge of the ongoing invetigation let us not forget. This is not some nobody in Nowheresvile looking at a picture of the moon landing he found on the internet.

    This is the POTUS, and he has been kept up to date on the exact nature (or should be) of what is going on. So to come out with a conspiracy when the FBI has pretty much determined the reality is all on him.

    What happened to his concern about the people on the front line, his beloved first responders? Why no calls for them to be praised in all of this? Why no prayers that nobody got killed handling them? That no public got caught up in this? Because to do that would mean accepting that this was extremely serious.

    The only thing he has said is that every resource is being given. That is just a way to try to make him look strong, that he is doing something. Absolutely no care for the people targeted, the general public or the democracy of the US.

    Yet again, we have an act of terrorism undertaken on American soil, by a white American and yet Trump is almost completely silent save for making up crazy conspiracy stories.

    And this is a person that you continue to support as the leader of the US? This person that clearly cares nothing about the US, only about the country he wants?

    No other democractic politician in the world would have handled this the way Trump has. And that is not because I believe that all of them are better that Trump, but that the voters in their countries have not allowed themselves to sell out their own country for the cheap thrills of a few rallies.

    I can understand Trump, don't like or agree with him, but I understand it. Its his supporters, and their willingness to sell their defence of the USA for a few laughs and some memes that disgust me.


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    #7446
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,509 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    I agree with you as far as that goes, but length and complexity of the ballot have nothing to do with it. Both you and Seamus have stated that it serves an intentional suppression effect.

    With everything else that is patently wrong with the system over there do you really think that the ballots have been designed to aid the process?

    A 16 page ballot would be fine, a little tiresome, but if that is what is needed to cover everything then so be it. But why create a system whereby not only do you have to go through the 16 pages but then check if the system actually recorded the selection you made rather than one somebody else wants? It is completely and totally insane.

    So we know that there is active voter suppression. We know that there is aggressive gerrymandering. Why now that in some cases the postal ballots system is flawed. Yet you think it is somehow unthinkable, and by your response, unbelievable, that that ballots themselves were not designed in such a way as to favor one type of politician over another?

    I fail to see how you can be so calm about it. When the thoughts of illegals voting was made up by Trump, and lets all remember that he simple made it up, many people were happy to see peoples private info shared with the Fed government to investigate.

    But when shown evidence of actual voting fraud, whether intentional or simply system flaw, you seem almost resigned to it.


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    #7447
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    With everything else that is patently wrong with the system over there do you really think that the ballots have been designed to aid the process?

    A 16 page ballot would be fine, a little tiresome, but if that is what is needed to cover everything then so be it. But why create a system whereby not only do you have to go through the 16 pages but then check if the system actually recorded the selection you made rather than one somebody else wants? It is completely and totally insane.

    So we know that there is active voter suppression. We know that there is aggressive gerrymandering. Why now that in some cases the postal ballots system is flawed. Yet you think it is somehow unthinkable, and by your response, unbelievable, that that ballots themselves were not designed in such a way as to favor one type of politician over another?

    I don't know how they are designed in that particular county. Around here, the names are placed completely randomly and they force you to slow down and actually pay attention, straight ticket voting is plain impossible. They are still very long ballots. If you are going to be submitting something electronically or otherwise, I think it is a very good thing to check over the answers. When do you ever submit a form without going over it at least a second time?

    If there is a coding error, either deliberate or accidental, which changes the ballot, that is a definite problem. That, however, seems not to be the case here.
    https://www.texastribune.org/2018/10/26/texas-voting-machines-2018-straight-ticket-midterm-elections/
    The bottom line: Voting machines aren’t malfunctioning. The secretary of state’s office is advising Texans to check their ballots and to double-check all votes cast before submitting their final ballot.

    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/election/article220602105.html
    “The “enter” button on a Hart eSlate selects a voter’s choice. The selection wheel button on a Hart eSlate allows the voter to move up and down the ballot,” Ingram’s advisory stated. “It is important when voting on a Hart eSlate machine for the voter to use one button or the other and not both simultaneously, and for the voter to not hit the “Enter” button or use the selection wheel button until a page is fully rendered.

    “A voter should note the response to the voter’s action on the keyboard prior to taking another keyboard action. It is also important for the voter to verify their selections are correct before casting their ballot.”

    Election officials say voters should carefully review their ballot — and take as much time needed — before hitting the button to cast their vote.

    You can make an argument that the equipment needs to be made more user-friendly. You can also make an argument that people just aren't taking their time. It's a problem which is possible with even a pen and paper


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    #7448
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    The voting system appears to have fundamental problems.

    There should be a neutral committee set up to oversee the elections in each county/state.

    The idea that the guy at the top of the ballot paper oversees the election in which he is running is wrong.

    Gerrymandering should be done away with once and for all.

    Sunday voting should be allowed. All other attempts at voter suppression should be roundly criticised by both sides of the aisle.

    I cannot see how americans, who claim that they live in the best country in the world, cannot see that the ability to vote is fundamental to how great a country is?


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    #7449
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Has anyone got an opinion as to what degree (in an ideological way) Trump feeds off his base vs how it feeds off him?

    I was struck by the "GOD GREAT Spirit Blessings" under your president and mine on the side of the Magabomber's van...

    Does he believe that c*** or did he just lift it from somewhere?


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    #7450
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,642 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    amandstu wrote: »
    Has anyone got an opinion as to what degree (in an ideological way) Trump feeds off his base vs how it feeds off him?

    I was struck by the "GOD GREAT Spirit Blessings" under your president and mine on the side of the Magabomber's van...

    Does he believe that c*** or did he just lift it from somewhere?

    I think it's a symbiotic relationship between Trump and his Base. He exploits their fears and misgivings about many things in America whether well founded or not and they see him as a validation of those fears.


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    #7451
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Duck Soup wrote: »
    FBI Director Christopher Wray at the Justice Dept press conference: "These were not hoax bombs."

    I think Wray is getting ahead of the curve, before Trump starts spouting off about the threat "not being real".

    He did tweet about it, putting the word "bombs" in quotation marks, so the curve is already that far around.


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    #7452
    spacecoyote
    Registered Users Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    amandstu wrote: »
    Has anyone got an opinion as to what degree (in an ideological way) Trump feeds off his base vs how it feeds off him?

    I was struck by the "GOD GREAT Spirit Blessings" under your president and mine on the side of the Magabomber's van...

    Does he believe that c*** or did he just lift it from somewhere?

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/people-are-changing-their-views-on-race-and-gender-issues-to-match-their-party/

    Interesting article on this topic from 538 which seems to be suggesting that it's the base feeding off the parties policies, rather than the converse.

    I'm sure there is a bit of a cyclical process of them feeding of each other too though


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    #7453
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    For some reason, and I think that reason is Trump continuously acts like a complete ******, I'd actually forgotten that he announced at a rally that Obama founded ISIS.

    So, anyone saying that he didn't incite hatred or that the left is as guilty as the right, can simply go and......


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    #7454
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Trump, on the day of a gunman killing 11 jews, stated
    1) he was having a bad day because his hair was all messed up
    2) complained again about how the press treated him
    3) said that if there was a good guy with a gun there, the shooting would have been prevented. 3 policemen were shot
    4) that he was holding his rally as he remembered the NYE opened the day after 9/11. It didn't- it opened 6 days later.


    The guy is a tone deaf, utter embarrassment.


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    #7455
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    He also went with the to him important notion that the shooter wasn't a supporter of Trump. It always comes back to himself.


    This may not be true as the perpetrator was concerned at the immigrant caravan that has been hyped by Trump. He believed the Jews were helping the immigrants. More stuff spewed by Trump.


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    #7456
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    It's pretty remarkable how someone in the office of the POTUS can be so consistently dumb. It's just so tiring.


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    #7457
    Hhugedick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭Hhugedick


    PropJoe10 wrote: »
    It's pretty remarkable how someone in the office of the POTUS can be so consistently dumb. It's just so tiring.

    Will he get a second term? Surely not if he keeps going the way he is


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    #7458
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    It is really up to the Dems to get their vote out for the Mid Terms. If it is seen that his support is toxic the GOP will melt away from him.


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    #7459
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Hhugedick wrote: »
    Will he get a second term? Surely not if he keeps going the way he is

    If the Dems don't take the Senate then I think he will. If they take the Senate, then they can use their majority to disrupt his agenda and hopefully marginalise him.

    If the Dems don't take the Senate, they'll be on the back foot for the rest of his first term and it'll be very hard for any Democrat to put up a decent campaign to challenge him. His core base will never desert him.


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    #7460
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The Senate is an improbable high ask, House of Reps more realistic.


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    #7461
    BabyCheeses
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Trump, on the day of a gunman killing 11 jews, stated
    1) he was having a bad day because his hair was all messed up
    2) complained again about how the press treated him
    3) said that if there was a good guy with a gun there, the shooting would have been prevented. 3 policemen were shot
    4) that he was holding his rally as he remembered the NYE opened the day after 9/11. It didn't- it opened 6 days later.


    The guy is a tone deaf, utter embarrassment.

    As well as that there was a guy who tried shooting up a black church but failed so shot some black people elsewhere and the magabomber. Hasnt been a great week for him.


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    #7462
    puzl
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭puzl


    PropJoe10 wrote: »
    .

    If the Dems don't take the Senate, they'll be on the back foot for the rest of his first term and it'll be very hard for any Democrat to put up a decent campaign to challenge him. His core base will never desert him.

    It is highly unlikely the Dems will take the Senate. Too few seats are up for reelection and most of those that are are incumbent Democrats.

    Holding the house of reps will hopefully be enough to put the brakes on Trump.


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    #7463
    Rhineshark
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    BabyCheeses wrote: »
    As well as that there was a guy who tried shooting up a black church but failed so shot some black people elsewhere and the magabomber. Hasnt been a great week for him.

    Yeah, but he called himself a nationalist, blamed CNN and then said if the synagogue had had armed guards things would have been different. And his brainwashed followers think it's a false flag.

    So all in all, even people being murdered can work for a man without the slightest shred of morals.


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    #7464
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    At this stage, you cannot be an "a la carte" supporter.

    You have to own all of it, the incompetence, the race baiting, the partisan vitriol, the deterioration of political standards, the corruption, the voter interference, the criminal charges and ALL of the consequences


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    #7465
    Rhineshark
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    everlast75 wrote: »
    At this stage, you cannot be an "a la carte" supporter.

    You have to own all of it, the incompetence, the race baiting, the partisan vitriol, the deterioration of political standards, the corruption, the voter interference, the criminal charges and ALL of the consequences

    But they never will. It's all lies because a global plot that started in the 1980s against a Trump presidency is *so much more likely* than Trump and his government of deplorables being awful people.


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    #7466
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Water John wrote: »
    The Senate is an improbable high ask, House of Reps more realistic.


    Especially when multiple GOP candidates are openly cheating and getting away with it.


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    #7467
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,075 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    PropJoe10 wrote: »
    If the Dems don't take the Senate then I think he will. If they take the Senate, then they can use their majority to disrupt his agenda and hopefully marginalise him.

    If the Dems don't take the Senate, they'll be on the back foot for the rest of his first term and it'll be very hard for any Democrat to put up a decent campaign to challenge him. His core base will never desert him.

    The Dems don't have to take the senate to keep Trump from causing more legislative mischief - nothing will get sent to Trump for signature (kind of like what the tGOP did for the last 6 years of Obama's presidency, unless you count dozens of Obamacare repeal bills.)

    Nothing much will help with executive orders or regulations the Congress can't control. If he has to nominate another SC judge, they can delay that. But this only works if they take the House. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-have-a-whac-a-mole-problem-in-the-senate/ is saying 1 in 6 to take the Senate. One never knows though and it does seem like there's a lot of enthusiasm for voting right now.


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    #7468
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Igotadose wrote: »
    The Dems don't have to take the senate to keep Trump from causing more legislative mischief - nothing will get sent to Trump for signature (kind of like what the tGOP did for the last 6 years of Obama's presidency, unless you count dozens of Obamacare repeal bills.)

    Nothing much will help with executive orders or regulations the Congress can't control. If he has to nominate another SC judge, they can delay that. But this only works if they take the House. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-have-a-whac-a-mole-problem-in-the-senate/ is saying 1 in 6 to take the Senate. One never knows though and it does seem like there's a lot of enthusiasm for voting right now.


    There are two states where votes are being changed from democrat to republican by the machines. How do the democrats win against something like that?


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    #7469
    Rhineshark
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    Captain Obvious wrote: »
    There are two states where votes are being changed from democrat to republican by the machines. How do the democrats win against something like that?

    And then there's Georgia in general. If yer man doesn't win 70+% of the vote with all the messing around he's incompetant as well as actively damaging democracy.


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    #7470
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,075 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Just when it looks like the US can't get worse, now it seems like a horde of gun-toting lawless yahoos are heading to the border to prevent the scary caravan of unarmed women and children from crossing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/migrant-caravan-us-armed-militia-groups-mexico-texas-border-trump-immigration-a8604371.html

    All this is on Trump. Anyone hurt by this can blame Trump. Period.

    Maybe the POTUS can direct his 800 troops to intercept these 'militiamen' and get them to disarm. That'd be amusing - the militiamen finally learning they can't really stand up to US armed forces and go back to being weekend warriors at gun ranges.


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    #7471
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Since I last read about this I thought it would be resolved by now, but amazingly there seems to be nothing done to resolve it
    https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1055912575093792768?s=19


This discussion has been closed.
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