Turas Nua, Beware, understand what you may be getting into.

Postgrad10 wrote: »

It's their plan on what you they are going to do with you whether you agree with it or not. It also entitles them to contact your future employers to check on you up to year after you've been employed ( and most likely through you obtaining your own employment, this allows them to seek a lot of money from the government for finding you work.

splinter65 wrote: »

Would you not be hoping to get a job in the next 6 weeks? There’s lots of vacancies.

Have I misinterpreted this? Do you know this person? or where they live? how do you know there are lots of vacancies in their area of training/experience? or that is practical for their ability to get to the job?even if that all fits the bill, how do you know they will be offered one? Its difficult to get a job when you arent in one and time consuming, its not as straight forward as you seem to be suggesting.

Unfortunately from what I can see is that it isn't actually incentivised to find work as people lose out on benefits, ie are completely cut off so it becomes financially not viable (read not possible) for people to work.
Its seems you are suggesting its all cut and dry, but its not.

1874 wrote: »

Have I misinterpreted this? Do you know this person? or where they live? how do you know there are lots of vacancies in their area of training/experience? or that is practical for their ability to get to the job?even if that all fits the bill, how do you know they will be offered one? Its difficult to get a job when you arent in one and time consuming, its not as straight forward as you seem to be suggesting.

Unfortunately from what I can see is that it isn't actually incentivised to find work as people lose out on benefits, ie are completely cut off so it becomes financially not viable (read not possible) for people to work.
Its seems you are suggesting its all cut and dry, but its not.

The idea of being on JSA is that you are looking for work and doing everything you can to find work and expecting to be in employment soon.
Planning ahead for 6 weeks more JSA doesn’t really gel with that.

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Nope, it was the answer to a direct question you asked of fin12 after telling them they were wrong about the Christmas bonus.

Ok I see. Is that in this thread?

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Literally yesterday. On this page.

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Literally yesterday. On this page.

The poster complained that the Government, via citizensinformation.ie advertise the Christmas bonus as only applying to long term unemployed. He described this as “lying”.
I pointed out that that’s not how it’s described and I posted a quote from that website as proof.
He ignored that then and went on to say that he got it after being on JSA for only 2 weeks.
I asked him what he was doing immediately before he got JSA he says he was on a salary of 24000
Now depending on how long he was in employment (he doesn’t say but it wasn’t long enough for him to get JSB) then he may have requalified that way. I don’t know . He hasn’t been back since.

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Why would he, you didn't ask any follow up questions. It's your very apparent MO on this thread, ask needling, incredulous questions of people, refuse to answer pertinent ones put to you, then when you get an answer you don't like disappear for a while and then pop up and repeat the process once the conversation has moved on.

You missed a question from me as well btw, do you have a personal motivation to defend TN and on what basis do you think they're good?

You seem to think that this thread is only open to people who don’t like TN. What you need to do is report posts you feel fall short of the charter and leave the modding up to the mods.

splinter65 wrote: »

The idea of being on JSA is that you are looking for work and doing everything you can to find work and expecting to be in employment soon.
Planning ahead for 6 weeks more JSA doesn’t really gel with that.

I dont think anyone disputed what JSA is for, you just seem to have come up with what you said, it looks very like you inferred they are not trying but suggested they could get a job easily (but only if they were really trying), based on zero information. You have come to some conclusions, based on nothing other than your own opinion. Someone can hope to get employment and trying as hard as they might, they may be fortunate, but expecting to get into a job is like predicting the future, even if you have all the skills, qualification, it is not certain.
So, in the absence of an actual offer turning up and a contract being signed, it seems reasonable that planning your finances and outgoings based on JSA (you know, that people are entitled to) is not only acceptable, its essential, that doesn't mean they arent planning/trying/hopeful to get employment, or should they just exist off cake?

Just to follow up on what I was saying earlier in the thread. I had a job interview two days after my first TN appointment and I got the job so I won't be dealing with them again I hope.

I didn't sign my PPP. I went to my TN meeting and I went through the group presentation, met my advisor and went along with everything until they asked me to sign it. I asked to read it when they asked me to sign which they were okay with but a bit surprised. Its split in three sections with three signatures needed. I asked about the wording of the 2nd part. It says if you find work that you agree to:

"consent for Turas Nua or a representative of the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to contact my employer so that the details of my
employment can be confirmed"

I said that I could not give consent on behalf of my future employers. You can't give permission for something that they might not agree to. I said even if I was okay with it (I wasn't) they might not be so I can't sign it on their behalf. They said to me that they might not have to contact my employer at all (they gave the impression that if I stayed in contact then they wouldn't have to). I still didn't agree to it as the PPP would still allow them to if they wanted to. The meeting ended there and I haven't been given a new date yet.

For what its worth my advisor came across pretty well. They didn't try to force me into their CV classes or anything like that yet. My file still said I would have to complete those classes by some date in February though even though my advisor said my experience showed I was beyond what they would teach me in those classes. The plan had a load of box-ticking in it. Literally.


I'll update if I hear anything back.

So I was looking up the welfare.ie Jobpath section to see what it says about the consent. Don't know if any of this is new but the page was modified on 20/09/2018 so it is at least current. The page says that agreeing to the PPP is mandatory. However, it then says:

"They will also be asked to sign a consent form to allow the JobPath Company to make contact with employers or prospective employers on behalf of the jobseeker. Agreement to the consent is not mandatory however it provides a number of advantages for the jobseeker."

Now this isn't treated as separate in the meeting. They were included on the same form for me but with different spaces for your signature. They give you the impression this is all part of the PPP though. There's an FAQ which highlights the "benefits" of giving your consent. It says:

"At the outset of your participation with the JobPath service, your personal advisor will ask for your consent to allow the company to contact your employer or prospective employers on your behalf. You are not obliged to give this consent to the JobPath provider, and can withdraw your consent at any time."

So according to the Welfare site you can withdraw your consent if you already gave it to them. In theory, this would allow for anyone who regrets giving consent to withdraw and hopefully get dropped by TN. I imagine they would still try to stop you and might make it as awkward as possible or just deny that you can do it. At least you can direct them to Welfare's site to prove you are right. I'd like to think that would work but I imagine they'd probably "forget" to withdraw your consent if you called them on it.

Is refusing to sign the personal progression plan, because you are not comfortable with signing your personal rights, over to a third party company motivated by greed and profit, valid enough reason for not doing so?What reasons have others used, when refusing to sign the ppp?I just want to refuse to sign the ppp, while remaining as diplomatic as possible.

Straight Talker wrote: »

Is refusing to sign the personal progression plan, because you are not comfortable with signing your personal rights, over to a third party company motivated by greed and profit, valid enough reason for not doing so?What reasons have others used, when refusing to sign the ppp?I just want to refuse to sign the ppp, while remaining as diplomatic as possible.

Have simply stated to my PA that it's nothing personal against them but that it's a moral/ethical and professional issue and that were it negotiable and some of the clauses removed I would then not be averse to signing it.

I highlighted the issues I had with it; obviously I knew the PPP is a one size fits all contract so it's non-negotiable.

The PA went to their line manager who stated it wasn't an issue if I didn't sign though I doubt they've had this issue very often; not enough're informed going in.

I also informed my PA that while I will continue to engage (and fill out their Job Search forms during each 30 or 60 min. appt.) because I'm not signing my PPP I won't be doing their courses (four; Write, Interview, CV & Prepare) as I'd done 'em before.

There was so much down on my PPP from before that they were claiming credit for in terms of skills gained, competencies that again I informed my PA this was another aspect I wished to alter.

It's not the customers fault that Turas Nua operate a "Computer Says No" programme.

Had my Information Session and PA Meeting; then within a week my 1st Appt. and then about a week, maybe fortnight later another appt. and am awaiting a fourth.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I have no idea why they're even allowed to do this. If TN/Seetec helped the person find a job, they'll already have employer details - fair enough, they actually helped, let them claim their bonus. When someone finds a job themselves they should just feck off and mind their own business.

I’ve got a problem now and not sure what I should do. I left Turas Nua seven months ago and they had details of the job I got and would contact me to ask was I stil, working there every few weeks which I would email them back and tell them I was. I have since left that job and started a new job and they have since been contacting me asking me am I still working in the old job, I have ignored them as I don’t want them to get credit for my new job or contacting my new employer but now I’m getting letters in the door to attend appointments and text messages.

Can they take credit for a job you started months after leaving them?

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Have simply stated to my PA that it's nothing personal against them but that it's a moral/ethical and professional issue and that were it negotiable and some of the clauses removed I would then not be averse to signing it.

I highlighted the issues I had with it; obviously I knew the PPP is a one size fits all contract so it's non-negotiable.

The PA went to their line manager who stated it wasn't an issue if I didn't sign though I doubt they've had this issue very often; not enough're informed going in.

I also informed my PA that while I will continue to engage (and fill out their Job Search forms during each 30 or 60 min. appt.) because I'm not signing my PPP I won't be doing their courses (four; Write, Interview, CV & Prepare) as I'd done 'em before.

There was so much down on my PPP from before that they were claiming credit for in terms of skills gained, competencies that again I informed my PA this was another aspect I wished to alter.

It's not the customers fault that Turas Nua operate a "Computer Says No" programme.

Had my Information Session and PA Meeting; then within a week my 1st Appt. and then about a week, maybe fortnight later another appt. and am awaiting a fourth.

I'll just politely tell them that i won't sign the ppp, because i am not under any obligation to do so.But other than that, i am willing to fully co-operate and engage with the program.I don't know how well that's going to go down at the meeting.But that's what i'll tell them, and that's what i'll tell social welfare as well, if they want to know why i didn't sign the ppp.

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Do me one favour; let me know, in aftermath of not signing the PPP if you get a communication from Intreo/Dept. of Employment Affairs and Social Protection/Dole Office that you're being excused for a period of 12 months.

Because if you do get this then they've committed fraud and forgery; they did it with me.

Letter should arrive within a week or fortnight of starting.

What should i do if i receive such a letter?Im actually a bit worried now.