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Turas Nua, Beware, understand what you may be getting into.

JimmyTee

I have been on Turas Nua's books with about 3 months, they haven't done anything worth while for me during this time, but I obliged their requests for meetings, as I understood at the time it was part of the social welfare system and their requirments.

Now I have since got a job on my own merit, so I contacted my appointed rep at Turas Nua just to be polite and to sign of their system, after a friendly chat and me telling her the company name and the position I have been given, she then tells me they will need to contact my new employer to verify my employment and ensure my benefits will be correct (BS), this was the point I sniffed a rat and realised she didn't have my best interests at heart (How naive am I ).

Upon checking the web about Turas Nua, I only now realise they are a private company appointed by the Department of Social protection. They are a profit making company and not a state body.

I have told them very firmly not to contact my new employer, but they have said that I signed a acceptance form with them at the start and this allows them to follow my progress, and part of that is contacting employers.

I contacted Citizens Information, who put me onto the Data Protection Commissioner, their reply was if "I had signed an agreement, then Turas Nua may be entitled to contact my employer".

This is a ludicrous situation, I don't want them hassling my new employer, and no doubt they are trying to see if they can get others in the door as well as earning their own commission.

I don't know if there is much I can do at this point.

So this is more a word of warning to others who may be asked to sign up with Turas Nua and what their motives are, because you are not number one priority.

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1874

Postgrad10 wrote: »

It's their plan on what you they are going to do with you whether you agree with it or not. It also entitles them to contact your future employers to check on you up to year after you've been employed ( and most likely through you obtaining your own employment, this allows them to seek a lot of money from the government for finding you work.

splinter65 wrote: »

Would you not be hoping to get a job in the next 6 weeks? There’s lots of vacancies.

Have I misinterpreted this? Do you know this person? or where they live? how do you know there are lots of vacancies in their area of training/experience? or that is practical for their ability to get to the job?even if that all fits the bill, how do you know they will be offered one? Its difficult to get a job when you arent in one and time consuming, its not as straight forward as you seem to be suggesting.

Unfortunately from what I can see is that it isn't actually incentivised to find work as people lose out on benefits, ie are completely cut off so it becomes financially not viable (read not possible) for people to work.
Its seems you are suggesting its all cut and dry, but its not.

splinter65

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Did the 24k answer not suit you?

I didn't see any reference to 24k. Are you confusing me with someone else?

splinter65

1874 wrote: »

Have I misinterpreted this? Do you know this person? or where they live? how do you know there are lots of vacancies in their area of training/experience? or that is practical for their ability to get to the job?even if that all fits the bill, how do you know they will be offered one? Its difficult to get a job when you arent in one and time consuming, its not as straight forward as you seem to be suggesting.

Unfortunately from what I can see is that it isn't actually incentivised to find work as people lose out on benefits, ie are completely cut off so it becomes financially not viable (read not possible) for people to work.
Its seems you are suggesting its all cut and dry, but its not.

The idea of being on JSA is that you are looking for work and doing everything you can to find work and expecting to be in employment soon.
Planning ahead for 6 weeks more JSA doesn’t really gel with that.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

splinter65 wrote: »

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Did the 24k answer not suit you?

I didn't see any reference to 24k. Are you confusing me with someone else?

Nope, it was the answer to a direct question you asked of fin12 after telling them they were wrong about the Christmas bonus.

splinter65

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Nope, it was the answer to a direct question you asked of fin12 after telling them they were wrong about the Christmas bonus.

Ok I see. Is that in this thread?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Literally yesterday. On this page.

splinter65

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Literally yesterday. On this page.

The poster complained that the Government, via citizensinformation.ie advertise the Christmas bonus as only applying to long term unemployed. He described this as “lying”.
I pointed out that that’s not how it’s described and I posted a quote from that website as proof.
He ignored that then and went on to say that he got it after being on JSA for only 2 weeks.
I asked him what he was doing immediately before he got JSA he says he was on a salary of 24000
Now depending on how long he was in employment (he doesn’t say but it wasn’t long enough for him to get JSB) then he may have requalified that way. I don’t know . He hasn’t been back since.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Why would he, you didn't ask any follow up questions. It's your very apparent MO on this thread, ask needling, incredulous questions of people, refuse to answer pertinent ones put to you, then when you get an answer you don't like disappear for a while and then pop up and repeat the process once the conversation has moved on.

You missed a question from me as well btw, do you have a personal motivation to defend TN and on what basis do you think they're good?

splinter65

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Why would he, you didn't ask any follow up questions. It's your very apparent MO on this thread, ask needling, incredulous questions of people, refuse to answer pertinent ones put to you, then when you get an answer you don't like disappear for a while and then pop up and repeat the process once the conversation has moved on.

You missed a question from me as well btw, do you have a personal motivation to defend TN and on what basis do you think they're good?

You seem to think that this thread is only open to people who don’t like TN. What you need to do is report posts you feel fall short of the charter and leave the modding up to the mods.

Yer Da sells Avon

splinter65 wrote: »

Would you not be hoping to get a job in the next 6 weeks? There’s lots of vacancies.

I hate this flippant attitude. It took me more than three months to find a job, and I wasn't one bit fussy either. It was very disheartening to hear people telling me "there's loads of jobs out there" when I was already applying for loads of jobs every day and rarely even getting a response, let alone an interview.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

splinter65 wrote: »

Mario Hundreds Newsprint wrote: »

Why would he, you didn't ask any follow up questions. It's your very apparent MO on this thread, ask needling, incredulous questions of people, refuse to answer pertinent ones put to you, then when you get an answer you don't like disappear for a while and then pop up and repeat the process once the conversation has moved on.

You missed a question from me as well btw, do you have a personal motivation to defend TN and on what basis do you think they're good?

You seem to think that this thread is only open to people who don’t like TN. What you need to do is report posts you feel fall short of the charter and leave the modding up to the mods.

Nope, not at all, I'm very interested in the perspective and experience of people who do like it. People like your good self. Take it you're not willing to share though.

You don't like me asking you these questions, or feel that I'm breaching the charter then take your own advice, but if we're both participants in the thread I'll continue to interact with you.

fin12

splinter65 wrote: »

The poster complained that the Government, via citizensinformation.ie advertise the Christmas bonus as only applying to long term unemployed. He described this as “lying”.
I pointed out that that’s not how it’s described and I posted a quote from that website as proof.
He ignored that then and went on to say that he got it after being on JSA for only 2 weeks.
I asked him what he was doing immediately before he got JSA he says he was on a salary of 24000
Now depending on how long he was in employment (he doesn’t say but it wasn’t long enough for him to get JSB) then he may have requalified that way. I don’t know . He hasn’t been back since.

Actually I did qualify for jobseekers benefit but was advised in my local intro office that I would get a higher payment on JSA so therefore went on JSA. I was working full time for 15 months before signing on JSA in November so I do not go under the category of getting the Christmas bonus based on being on long term social welfare payment.

Jameswhalley

I was refused a training course I need for employment in my sector

Is there any way to appeal or are they cutting costs ?

Nokia6230i

One other benefit of NOT SIGNING the PPP is this.

Because you haven't agreed to anything in it, whether you're there for your first or second or subsequent time you can opt out of their courses (there's four of 'em; CV, Interview, Prepare and Write).

The courses last between half and a full day and are mind numbingly boring; the you know what is dragged out of them by the trainer delivering them and s/he rarely deviates from the content; you'd be much quicker just reading the documents yourself.

Even with embellishment and real life examples I'd do well to make make the full day (9:30-4:30 incl. 2 breaks if I recall and lunch); most people could deliver these courses in half the time to twice the amount of people and deviate from the script to make it more relatable too.

1874

splinter65 wrote: »

The idea of being on JSA is that you are looking for work and doing everything you can to find work and expecting to be in employment soon.
Planning ahead for 6 weeks more JSA doesn’t really gel with that.

I dont think anyone disputed what JSA is for, you just seem to have come up with what you said, it looks very like you inferred they are not trying but suggested they could get a job easily (but only if they were really trying), based on zero information. You have come to some conclusions, based on nothing other than your own opinion. Someone can hope to get employment and trying as hard as they might, they may be fortunate, but expecting to get into a job is like predicting the future, even if you have all the skills, qualification, it is not certain.
So, in the absence of an actual offer turning up and a contract being signed, it seems reasonable that planning your finances and outgoings based on JSA (you know, that people are entitled to) is not only acceptable, its essential, that doesn't mean they arent planning/trying/hopeful to get employment, or should they just exist off cake?

Nokia6230i

As an aside has anyone else who didn't sign their PPP first (or second or maybe even more) time round attended the 4 courses Turas Nua provide (CV, Write, Prepare and Interview)?

Since I'm one who hasn't signed their Personal Progression Plan I also haven't consented to attending these courses; once was quite enough thank you very much.

Some Random Username

Just to follow up on what I was saying earlier in the thread. I had a job interview two days after my first TN appointment and I got the job so I won't be dealing with them again I hope.

I didn't sign my PPP. I went to my TN meeting and I went through the group presentation, met my advisor and went along with everything until they asked me to sign it. I asked to read it when they asked me to sign which they were okay with but a bit surprised. Its split in three sections with three signatures needed. I asked about the wording of the 2nd part. It says if you find work that you agree to:

"consent for Turas Nua or a representative of the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to contact my employer so that the details of my
employment can be confirmed"

I said that I could not give consent on behalf of my future employers. You can't give permission for something that they might not agree to. I said even if I was okay with it (I wasn't) they might not be so I can't sign it on their behalf. They said to me that they might not have to contact my employer at all (they gave the impression that if I stayed in contact then they wouldn't have to). I still didn't agree to it as the PPP would still allow them to if they wanted to. The meeting ended there and I haven't been given a new date yet.

For what its worth my advisor came across pretty well. They didn't try to force me into their CV classes or anything like that yet. My file still said I would have to complete those classes by some date in February though even though my advisor said my experience showed I was beyond what they would teach me in those classes. The plan had a load of box-ticking in it. Literally.

I'll update if I hear anything back.

Nokia6230i

Can anyone confirm how much, per customer (or per X number of customers; it could be for every 5, 10, 15, 20....) Turas Nua get paid when they sign their Personal Progression Plan (PPP) please?

Some Random Username

So I was looking up the welfare.ie Jobpath section to see what it says about the consent. Don't know if any of this is new but the page was modified on 20/09/2018 so it is at least current. The page says that agreeing to the PPP is mandatory. However, it then says:

"They will also be asked to sign a consent form to allow the JobPath Company to make contact with employers or prospective employers on behalf of the jobseeker. Agreement to the consent is not mandatory however it provides a number of advantages for the jobseeker."

Now this isn't treated as separate in the meeting. They were included on the same form for me but with different spaces for your signature. They give you the impression this is all part of the PPP though. There's an FAQ which highlights the "benefits" of giving your consent. It says:

"At the outset of your participation with the JobPath service, your personal advisor will ask for your consent to allow the company to contact your employer or prospective employers on your behalf. You are not obliged to give this consent to the JobPath provider, and can withdraw your consent at any time."

So according to the Welfare site you can withdraw your consent if you already gave it to them. In theory, this would allow for anyone who regrets giving consent to withdraw and hopefully get dropped by TN. I imagine they would still try to stop you and might make it as awkward as possible or just deny that you can do it. At least you can direct them to Welfare's site to prove you are right. I'd like to think that would work but I imagine they'd probably "forget" to withdraw your consent if you called them on it.

oceanman

Some Random Username wrote: »

So I was looking up the welfare.ie Jobpath section to see what it says about the consent. Don't know if any of this is new but the page was modified on 20/09/2018 so it is at least current. The page says that agreeing to the PPP is mandatory. However, it then says:

"They will also be asked to sign a consent form to allow the JobPath Company to make contact with employers or prospective employers on behalf of the jobseeker. Agreement to the consent is not mandatory however it provides a number of advantages for the jobseeker."

Now this isn't treated as separate in the meeting. They were included on the same form for me but with different spaces for your signature. They give you the impression this is all part of the PPP though. There's an FAQ which highlights the "benefits" of giving your consent. It says:

"At the outset of your participation with the JobPath service, your personal advisor will ask for your consent to allow the company to contact your employer or prospective employers on your behalf. You are not obliged to give this consent to the JobPath provider, and can withdraw your consent at any time."

So according to the Welfare site you can withdraw your consent if you already gave it to them. In theory, this would allow for anyone who regrets giving consent to withdraw and hopefully get dropped by TN. I imagine they would still try to stop you and might make it as awkward as possible or just deny that you can do it. At least you can direct them to Welfare's site to prove you are right. I'd like to think that would work but I imagine they'd probably "forget" to withdraw your consent if you called them on it.

that's good information to know.

Straight Talker

Is refusing to sign the personal progression plan, because you are not comfortable with signing your personal rights, over to a third party company motivated by greed and profit, valid enough reason for not doing so?What reasons have others used, when refusing to sign the ppp?I just want to refuse to sign the ppp, while remaining as diplomatic as possible.

Postgrad10

I think it's mainly that they don't want to be harassed or their employer harassed up to a year later by them by them when they get themselves a job. Or that they get a large sum for doing so.

Nokia6230i

Straight Talker wrote: »

Is refusing to sign the personal progression plan, because you are not comfortable with signing your personal rights, over to a third party company motivated by greed and profit, valid enough reason for not doing so?What reasons have others used, when refusing to sign the ppp?I just want to refuse to sign the ppp, while remaining as diplomatic as possible.

Have simply stated to my PA that it's nothing personal against them but that it's a moral/ethical and professional issue and that were it negotiable and some of the clauses removed I would then not be averse to signing it.

I highlighted the issues I had with it; obviously I knew the PPP is a one size fits all contract so it's non-negotiable.

The PA went to their line manager who stated it wasn't an issue if I didn't sign though I doubt they've had this issue very often; not enough're informed going in.

I also informed my PA that while I will continue to engage (and fill out their Job Search forms during each 30 or 60 min. appt.) because I'm not signing my PPP I won't be doing their courses (four; Write, Interview, CV & Prepare) as I'd done 'em before.

There was so much down on my PPP from before that they were claiming credit for in terms of skills gained, competencies that again I informed my PA this was another aspect I wished to alter.

It's not the customers fault that Turas Nua operate a "Computer Says No" programme.

Had my Information Session and PA Meeting; then within a week my 1st Appt. and then about a week, maybe fortnight later another appt. and am awaiting a fourth.

fryup

and who the hell want their new employers getting phone calls about them....they'll be thinking whats wrong with this guy i've took on? is he special needs? an ex-con? got a mental illness etc

fin12

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I have no idea why they're even allowed to do this. If TN/Seetec helped the person find a job, they'll already have employer details - fair enough, they actually helped, let them claim their bonus. When someone finds a job themselves they should just feck off and mind their own business.

I’ve got a problem now and not sure what I should do. I left Turas Nua seven months ago and they had details of the job I got and would contact me to ask was I stil, working there every few weeks which I would email them back and tell them I was. I have since left that job and started a new job and they have since been contacting me asking me am I still working in the old job, I have ignored them as I don’t want them to get credit for my new job or contacting my new employer but now I’m getting letters in the door to attend appointments and text messages.

Can they take credit for a job you started months after leaving them?

fin12

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'd say they'll do their best to take credit for any job you might have. Best course of action is to ignore them I'd say. If you're determined to make sure they don't get any money, maybe make a complain to the department of social protection, although it's hard to say if that will go anywhere either.

Its just really pissing me off getting letters from them to attend appointments. I just throw them straight in the bin but still I’d prefer them not coming in the door at all.

Straight Talker

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Have simply stated to my PA that it's nothing personal against them but that it's a moral/ethical and professional issue and that were it negotiable and some of the clauses removed I would then not be averse to signing it.

I highlighted the issues I had with it; obviously I knew the PPP is a one size fits all contract so it's non-negotiable.

The PA went to their line manager who stated it wasn't an issue if I didn't sign though I doubt they've had this issue very often; not enough're informed going in.

I also informed my PA that while I will continue to engage (and fill out their Job Search forms during each 30 or 60 min. appt.) because I'm not signing my PPP I won't be doing their courses (four; Write, Interview, CV & Prepare) as I'd done 'em before.

There was so much down on my PPP from before that they were claiming credit for in terms of skills gained, competencies that again I informed my PA this was another aspect I wished to alter.

It's not the customers fault that Turas Nua operate a "Computer Says No" programme.

Had my Information Session and PA Meeting; then within a week my 1st Appt. and then about a week, maybe fortnight later another appt. and am awaiting a fourth.

I'll just politely tell them that i won't sign the ppp, because i am not under any obligation to do so.But other than that, i am willing to fully co-operate and engage with the program.I don't know how well that's going to go down at the meeting.But that's what i'll tell them, and that's what i'll tell social welfare as well, if they want to know why i didn't sign the ppp.

Nokia6230i

Straight Talker wrote: »

I'll just politely tell them that i won't sign the ppp, because i am not under any obligation to do so.But other than that, i am willing to fully co-operate and engage with the program.I don't know how well that's going to go down at the meeting.But that's what i'll them, and that's what i'll tell social welfare as well, if they want to know why i didn't sign the ppp.

Do me one favour; let me know, in aftermath of not signing the PPP if you get a communication from Intreo/Dept. of Employment Affairs and Social Protection/Dole Office that you're being excused for a period of 12 months.

Because if you do get this then they've committed fraud and forgery; they did it with me.

Letter should arrive within a week or fortnight of starting.

Straight Talker

Nokia6230i wrote: »

Do me one favour; let me know, in aftermath of not signing the PPP if you get a communication from Intreo/Dept. of Employment Affairs and Social Protection/Dole Office that you're being excused for a period of 12 months.

Because if you do get this then they've committed fraud and forgery; they did it with me.

Letter should arrive within a week or fortnight of starting.

What should i do if i receive such a letter?Im actually a bit worried now.

Nokia6230i

Straight Talker wrote: »

What should i do if i receive such a letter?Im actually a bit worried now.

Consult a solr.; approach your local barracks about making a statement.

Your name being signed (don't be fooled; they'll try offer you an electronic pen to complete your signature on screen; insist on getting a copy to bring away with you and don't sign it; it's a contract) without your consent or by you or on your behalf is forgery.

They receive a payment; that's fraud.