NFL style draft in Irish rugby?

troyzer · 18-10-2018 7:16am #1

This one came up on Newstalk the other night and I was thinking it probably deserves its own thread.

The idea is that that every year after the senior cups, there would an IRFU organised NFL style draft where each province would pick a player in turn.

The order of pricks is determined by the ranking of the province in the previous year meaning that in a normal season you might have this order:

1. Connacht
2. Ulster
3. Munster
4. Leinster

Obviously as a Leinster fan I'd be dubious because it quite clearly shafts us the most, but it would spread the goods slightly from an overflowing academy system.

The main downside? The provinces would become pointless. You could be born, raised and learn to play rugby in Leinster but then picked for Connacht. It erodes the value of the ground up approach which has made the provinces so successful.

I also think it could lead to a slippery slope of players losing attachment to their province and eventually to their country and more would go abroad for the money.

Thoughts?

Rigor Mortis · 18-10-2018 7:20am

One of the great strengths of Irish teams is pride of place. It is consistently referred to by opposing teams and commentators. We would be crazy to give this away.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 7:23am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

One of the great strengths of Irish teams is pride of place. It is consistently referred to by opposing teams and commentators. We would be crazy to give this away.

We're already giving it away by making strategic loans/permanent trades from Leinster to shore up Munster.

First Carbery and now McCarthy. What's to stop Munster from saying they're a bit weak at loosehead and sure Ireland have two Lions there, can we have one?

sydthebeat · 18-10-2018 7:26am

troyzer wrote: »

The order of pricks is...

Jeez that's a bit harsh on those young lads

troyzer · 18-10-2018 7:29am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Jeez that's a bit harsh on those young lads

I wonder if that was a Freudian slip.......

18-10-2018 8:01am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

One of the great strengths of Irish teams is pride of place. It is consistently referred to by opposing teams and commentators. We would be crazy to give this away.

troyzer wrote: »

We're already giving it away by making strategic loans/permanent trades from Leinster to shore up Munster.

First Carbery and now McCarthy. What's to stop Munster from saying they're a bit weak at loosehead and sure Ireland have two Lions there, can we have one?

I agree with Mortis. Right now it's diluting due to necessity, medium to long term though each academy needs to improve as much as possible to limit it.

The provinces thrive on their local identities, I think it would take away much of the edge to remove that ingredient.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 8:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with Mortis. Right now it's diluting due to necessity, medium to long term though each academy needs to improve as much as possible to limit it.

The provinces thrive on their local identities, I think it would take away much of the edge to remove that ingredient.

I'm sure Nucifora would prefer if he could handpick the squads for each province. It would certainly be in the national team's interest to stop stacking everyone in Leinster.

stl.ire · 18-10-2018 8:17am

troyzer wrote: »

We're already giving it away by making strategic loans/permanent trades from Leinster to shore up Munster.

First Carbery and now McCarthy. What's to stop Munster from saying they're a bit weak at loosehead and sure Ireland have two Lions there, can we have one?

Transfers and loans really only happen for one reason - the Ireland national team.

If a talented player is not getting sufficient game time to develop, and another province is short in their position, then these moves happen. That’s why Carbery moved (and Carbery’s development is why McCarthy will get moved), it’s why Conway, Murphy etc moved. A draft would be detrimental to Ireland’s national team so it will never happen. Instead the IRFU seem to want to increase the number of transfers as they can control them.

As for Leinster, there’s no doubt they are gifting other provinces players right now - then again they have the most central contracts so can’t really complain when the IRFU want something, and it’s not like Leinster haven’t benefited from a Henshaw or Boss from time to time. I’d be very interested to see what happens after the WC if Sean Cronin is close to retirement and Tracey hasn’t developed, Leo should get on the phone about Munster’s Scannell/Marshall or Ulster’s Herring/McBurney!

prawnsambo · 18-10-2018 8:38am

troyzer wrote: »

I'm sure Nucifora would prefer if he could handpick the squads for each province. It would certainly be in the national team's interest to stop stacking everyone in Leinster.

Yeah, but that takes the pressure off those that have not been getting the best from their academies. It would also likely cause dysfunctional behaviour. Why bother putting the effort into your youth structures and academies if it's just going to be taken off you at a whim?

And the NFL draft is from college players. Not from their own academies and development structures.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 8:41am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, but that takes the pressure off those that have not been getting the best from their academies. It would also likely cause dysfunctional behaviour. Why bother putting the effort into your youth structures and academies if it's just going to be taken off you at a whim?

And the NFL draft is from college players. Not from their own academies and development structures.

OTB presented it as the schools effectively taking the role of colleges.

The senior cups would be like bowl games where the players know they have to perform and it'll raise their draft stock.

Personally, I think it's a load of ****e. But there has to be a less irritating way to spread the wealth then Munster poaching players at the two positions Leinster have the least depth.

awec · 18-10-2018 8:46am

This won't happen.

I am pretty sure that Ulster, Munster and Connacht would oppose it for some intangible reason, even though they'd ultimately benefit from it in terms of squad strength. Leinster would be strongly against this idea as it pretty much nullifies the advantages they have over other provinces.

I think what's more likely to happen is recognition that it is not really a level playing field, that the other 3 will never match Leinster and Leinster will ultimately end up being forced to part with players on a more regular basis. Moves from Ulster/Munster/Connacht will be rare compared to moves from Leinster, but that's just a result of the realities of rugby in Ireland.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 8:47am

awec wrote: »

This won't happen.

I am pretty sure that Ulster, Munster and Connacht would oppose it for some intangible reason, even though they'd ultimately benefit from it in terms of squad strength. Leinster would be strongly against this idea as it pretty much nullifies the advantages they have over other provinces.

I think what's more likely to happen is recognition that it is not really a level playing field, that the other 3 will never match Leinster and Leinster will ultimately end up being forced to part with players on a more regular basis.

Which is really annoying.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was a formal structure and Leinster were allowed to designate certain players as untouchable.

prawnsambo · 18-10-2018 8:53am

troyzer wrote: »

OTB presented it as the schools effectively taking the role of colleges.

The senior cups would be like bowl games where the players know they have to perform and it'll raise their draft stock.

Personally, I think it's a load of ****e. But there has to be a less irritating way to spread the wealth then Munster poaching players at the two positions Leinster have the least depth.

Yes. But the schools (and clubs - everyone forgets the clubs) are effectively already in the provincial development structure. It's the province's development officers that oversee the whole thing. And the youth squads that are taken from those schools and clubs and introduced to the system.

stl.ire · 18-10-2018 8:57am

troyzer wrote: »

Which is really annoying.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was a formal structure and Leinster were allowed to designate certain players as untouchable.

There is a formal structure. Ireland at the top then the four provinces below. Leinster are ultimately beholden to Ireland and they don’t need to designate players - if a player isn’t playing enough for Ireland’s liking because Leinster aren’t picking them then they are ‘designated’ for possible transfer. That’s tough to accept but it’s where the IRFU are moving things.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 9:01am

stl.ire wrote: »

There is a formal structure. Ireland at the top then the four provinces below. Leinster are ultimately beholden to Ireland and they don’t need to designate players - if a player isn’t playing enough for Ireland’s liking because Leinster aren’t picking them then they are ‘designated’ for possible transfer. That’s tough to accept but it’s where the IRFU are moving things.

But we're now in a situation in Leinster were if our starting half backs go down, our bench will have zero experience.

It's robbign from Peter to pay Paul. Carbery should have been a one off in a year before the world cup.

But taking McCarthy as well?

awec · 18-10-2018 9:01am

troyzer wrote: »

Which is really annoying.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was a formal structure and Leinster were allowed to designate certain players as untouchable.

It's annoying but it's probably inevitable.

I am sure Leinster can already deem players untouchable. The likes of James Ryan is never going anywhere. McCarthy is a fringe player at best. Jordi Murphy moved because Leinster's back row is just ridiculous. Carbery moved because he was never getting played at 10.

I think more moves like this will happen in future. Look at Abdaladze for Leinster A. Porter has literally just broken into the team, Furlong is probably the best in the world in his position. This guys future is not at Leinster. An argument can be made for Caelan Doris as well.

If things just continue without moves, we're going to end up with one province that's stupidly strong in terms of depth, where great players are wasting time playing A rugby or watching on TV each week, and 3 decent teams that will never really compete for trophies.

Maybe Leinster should be compensated for it with an extra NIQ spot.

awec · 18-10-2018 9:04am

troyzer wrote: »

But we're now in a situation in Leinster were if our starting half backs go down, our bench will have zero experience.

It's robbign from Peter to pay Paul. Carbery should have been a one off in a year before the world cup.

But taking McCarthy as well?

This is pretty normal for most teams, a bench containing either inexperience or mediocrity. The situation Leinster have enjoyed for years is not normal, so my sympathy is limited.

Leinster still have Sexton and Byrne and 10, and McGrath and JGP at 9. This is still better than most teams.

salmocab · 18-10-2018 9:04am

Not that I think this has any chance of happening but one of the reasons the American draft system is successful is that the sports are quite insular particularly football. Trying to force a 19 year old Dub to move to Belfast could well see him think nah I’ll just go to college or even take a pro contract abroad. It also discourages Provinces from developing outside of the school system as everyone would just be watching the cup teams.

Anyway there is zero chance of it happening it’s radio time filler.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 9:11am

awec wrote: »

It's annoying but it's probably inevitable.

I am sure Leinster can already deem players untouchable. The likes of James Ryan is never going anywhere. McCarthy is a fringe player at best. Jordi Murphy moved because Leinster's back row is just ridiculous. Carbery moved because he was never getting played at 10.

I think more moves like this will happen in future. Look at Abdaladze for Leinster A. Porter has literally just broken into the team, Furlong is probably the best in the world in his position. This guys future is not at Leinster. An argument can be made for Caelan Doris as well.

If things just continue without moves, we're going to end up with one province that's stupidly strong in terms of depth, where great players are wasting time playing A rugby or watching on TV each week, and 3 decent teams that will never really compete for trophies.

Maybe Leinster should be compensated for it with an extra NIQ spot.

That's not a bad idea.

awec wrote: »

This is pretty normal for most teams, a bench containing either inexperience or mediocrity. The situation Leinster have enjoyed for years is not normal, so my sympathy is limited.

Leinster still have Sexton and Byrne and 10, and McGrath and JGP at 9. This is still better than most teams.

It is normal, but Leinster are better than any other team at developing depth. There should be some reward for that rather than being scalped.

salmocab wrote: »

Not that I think this has any chance of happening but one of the reasons the American draft system is successful is that the sports are quite insular particularly football. Trying to force a 19 year old Dub to move to Belfast could well see him think nah I’ll just go to college or even take a pro contract abroad. It also discourages Provinces from developing outside of the school system as everyone would just be watching the cup teams.

Anyway there is zero chance of it happening it’s radio time filler.

Agree, it won't happen. It's thought provoking though.

Podge_irl · 18-10-2018 9:12am

Would it even be legal?

It is an utterly atrocious idea either way. Yes, Leinster are losing some backup players to other provinces where they have positions of weakness. But so far it is still reasonably voluntary and Leinster can handle it. Completely destroying the provincial identity will just see us end up like the Welsh regions.

Podge_irl · 18-10-2018 9:12am

troyzer wrote: »

It is normal, but Leinster are better than any other team at developing depth. There should be some reward for that rather than being scalped.

Perhaps some kind of trophy...

awec · 18-10-2018 9:15am

troyzer wrote: »

That's not a bad idea.

It is normal, but Leinster are better than any other team at developing depth. There should be some reward for that rather than being scalped.

Agree, it won't happen. It's thought provoking though.

They are, but they aren't starting off on a level playing field compared to other teams. So in a way, Leinster absolutely should be developing a lot more players than other teams, it is somewhat inevitable.

The reward is being the best team in the league. Even if Leinster lost 4 or 5 fringe players they'd still be the best team in the league.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 9:18am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Perhaps some kind of trophy...

For now. What happens if Sexton and Byrne both go down and we get knocked out of the Heinken cup and lose a rake of games because Noel Reid isn't ready for top flight rugby?

awec wrote: »

They are, but they aren't starting off on a level playing field compared to other teams. So in a way, Leinster absolutely should be developing a lot more players than other teams, it is somewhat inevitable.

The reward is being the best team in the league. Even if Leinster lost 4 or 5 fringe players they'd still be the best team in the league.

Why aren't we starting off on a level playing field? Compared to Connacht I'd agree, population wise. Munster is a lot less but still has well over a million people and Ulster is nearly the same as Leinster population wise.

2smiggy · 18-10-2018 9:20am

college attendances

college football and a lesser extent basketball in the the US is a business , with revenue and attendances dwarfing any any professional rugby. The draft at the end is the carrot for the unpaid players (*not technology true, they are on scholarships and i'm sure many hidden bonuses)

the average attendance is over 50000 for 41 teams playing it, with 18 over 75000. Just looked up a home ticket for Penn States next home game, cheapest is $64 and it has an attendance averaging over 100K. The pre draft college game is a cash cow. Plus you have plenty of lads who never went to college or private schools who turned out to be good players. Where would they fit into a draft

aloooof · 18-10-2018 9:25am

troyzer wrote: »

For now. What happens if Sexton and Byrne both go down and we get knocked out of the Heinken cup and lose a rake of games because Noel Reid isn't ready for top flight rugby?

Why aren't we starting off on a level playing field? Compared to Connacht I'd agree, population wise. Munster is a lot less but still has well over a million people and Ulster is nearly the same as Leinster population wise.

Off the top of my head:
- Population.
- Numbers participating in the game.
- Number of fee paying schools with full time coaches.

Larbre34 · 18-10-2018 9:25am

I know this is a very hypothetical discussion to begin with, but I don't think a draft could comply with EU employment law

troyzer · 18-10-2018 9:28am

aloooof wrote: »

Off the top of my head:
- Population.
- Numbers participating in the game.
- Number of fee paying schools with full time coaches.

I'll give you population but the other two are not inherent advantages Leinster has that can't be done in other provinces.

Larbre34 wrote: »

I know this is a very hypothetical discussion to begin with, but I don't think a draft could comply with EU employment law

Probably not.

2smiggy · 18-10-2018 9:29am

Larbre34 wrote: »

I know this is a very hypothetical discussion to begin with, but I don't think a draft could comply with EU employment law

in Joe Duffys voice 'Whoooy ?'

Podge_irl · 18-10-2018 9:31am

troyzer wrote: »

For now. What happens if Sexton and Byrne both go down and we get knocked out of the Heinken cup and lose a rake of games because Noel Reid isn't ready for top flight rugby?

Noel Reid will never be ready to be a top flight 10. But he is, at best, third choice and more likely fourth.

What happened two years ago when Sexton, Carberry and Marsh were all unavailable? Byrne stepped up. Maybe this time it will be Frawley. Or maybe we will have to face the horror of our 3rd to 4th choice outhalf not being amazing just like everyone else.

2smiggy · 18-10-2018 9:31am

troyzer wrote: »

I'll give you population but the other two are not inherent advantages Leinster has that can't be done in other provinces.

You can get every one to do a lot more riding, we could catch up in two generations ?

Riskymove · 18-10-2018 9:33am

2smiggy wrote: »

in Joe Duffys voice 'Whoooy ?'

well....imagine you came first in class at college and then the worst company in the industry you qualified in just got to pick you and, effectively, owned all rights to you!

Here people generally get to choose who to go and work for

aloooof · 18-10-2018 9:35am

troyzer wrote: »

I'll give you population but the other two are not inherent advantages Leinster has that can't be done in other provinces.

Population and numbers playing the game are inherently linked, tho.

2smiggy · 18-10-2018 9:37am

Riskymove wrote: »

well....imagine you came first in class at college and then the worst company in the industry you qualified in just got to pick you and, effectively, owned all rights to you!

Here people generally get to choose who to go and work for

well they are picking from an 'amateur' sport , and you are not forced to go to any team, or declare for the draft. I see what you are saying, but this is how i imagine how they get over certain regulations

troyzer · 18-10-2018 9:38am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Noel Reid will never be ready to be a top flight 10. But he is, at best, third choice and more likely fourth.

What happened two years ago when Sexton, Carberry and Marsh were all unavailable? Byrne stepped up. Maybe this time it will be Frawley. Or maybe we will have to face the horror of our 3rd to 4th choice outhalf not being amazing just like everyone else.

Yes but again, we had a 3rd choice flyhalf who was test level (Joey Carbery). I don't get this argument that because we're way better at developing talent, we should let it go and settle for being the same as everyone else? What's the point trying to be better if your gains will be taken off you?

2smiggy wrote: »

You can get every one to do a lot more riding, we could catch up in two generations ?

It would hardly take that long. Munster were regularly out playing Leinster in recent memory.

aloooof wrote: »

Population and numbers playing the game are inherently linked, tho.

Yes they are, in which case Leinster only has one advantage: population. All other advantages stem from that. I'm not disputing that Leinster is bigger. But it's not THAT much bigger than Ulster. Ulster has a million more people and is far less successful than Munster in Europe. It's not all about population. It is not an insurmountable, inherent advantage.

We certainly weren't talking about inherent advantages when Munster outshone Leinster for ten years. It's the same argument people use against Dublin GAA, they weren't complaining when Kerry were dominating.

Riskymove · 18-10-2018 9:39am

troyzer wrote: »

Why aren't we starting off on a level playing field? Compared to Connacht I'd agree, population wise. Munster is a lot less but still has well over a million people and Ulster is nearly the same as Leinster population wise.

ah come on, you must realise that rugby is not played in all areas equally. Large parts of the country have little or no rugby played in schools

I grew up in apart of Dublin city and never encountered rugby at school or in the locality. Only CBS schools or private schools played it at the time.

You would think from your posts that this is the first time players have moved from Leinster to other provinces. It has been going on for a long time - and by the way it has also happened that Munster men have played for leinster.

There is simply too many players now being developed to service just Leinster or indeed maybe even all 4 professional clubs. The number moving abroad is noticeable.

Podge_irl · 18-10-2018 9:39am

2smiggy wrote: »

well they are picking from an 'amateur' sport , and you are not forced to go to any team, or declare for the draft. I see what you are saying, but this is how i imagine how they get over certain regulations

The NFL draft obviously isn't illegal cause America is the wild west for labour rights.

It would be illegal in Europe. I guess you might get away with it in Ireland as ultimately you end up working for the IRFU either way but I'd have my doubts.

Podge_irl · 18-10-2018 9:40am

troyzer wrote: »

Yes but again, we had a 3rd choice flyhalf who was test level (Joey Carbery). I don't get this argument that because we're way better at developing talent, we should let it go and settle for being the same as everyone else? What's the point trying to be better if your gains will be taken off you?

When Leinster can stand entirely on their own two feet with no help or input from the IRFU at all this may be a reasonable argument. But currently it is not.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 9:42am

Riskymove wrote: »

ah come on, you must realise that rugby is not played in all areas equally. Large parts of the country have little or no rugby played in schools

I grew up in apart of Dublin city and never encountered rugby at school or in the locality. Only CBS schools or private schools played it at the time.

You would think from your posts that this is the first time players have moved from Leinster to other provinces. It has been going on for a long time - and by the way it has also happened that Munster men have played for leinster.

There is simply too many players now being developed to service just Leinster or indeed maybe even all 4 professional clubs. The number moving abroad is noticeable.

I never encountered rugby until I was in my mid teens. I grew up in a soccer house, I'm sure most people in Dublin did.

Rugby is a minority sport in all parts of Ireland.

It's not the first time players have moved, but it's getting irritating. They're taking players at positions we are weakest.

Taking Jordi Murphy is fair enough, we're stacked there. It's impossible to make a defence for keeping him.

Podge_irl · 18-10-2018 9:47am

With the acknowledgement that Carberry was an unusual situation, they are nonetheless not taking anyone. No more than Leinster took Cronin, Hogan, Reddan, Henshaw et al.

awec · 18-10-2018 9:47am

troyzer wrote: »

Yes but again, we had a 3rd choice flyhalf who was test level (Joey Carbery). I don't get this argument that because we're way better at developing talent, we should let it go and settle for being the same as everyone else? What's the point trying to be better if your gains will be taken off you?

It would hardly take that long. Munster were regularly out playing Leinster in recent memory.

Yes they are, in which case Leinster only has one advantage: population. All other advantages stem from that. I'm not disputing that Leinster is bigger. But it's not THAT much bigger than Ulster. Ulster has a million more people and is far less successful than Munster in Europe. It's not all about population. It is not an insurmountable, inherent advantage.

We certainly weren't talking about inherent advantages when Munster outshone Leinster for ten years. It's the same argument people use against Dublin GAA, they weren't complaining when Kerry were dominating.

50% of Ulster's population has no exposure to rugby at school age. Ulster has no fee paying schools anymore.

Munster, in reality, have only ever built one team capable of winning a European cup, in a era where they ended up with a freakishly good pack. And rugby back then was totally different. To be honest, I don't think Munster will ever develop another team capable of winning the European cup, they (like most others) will be reliant on developing the basis of a squad and then recruiting in players from elsewhere to end up with a team that's good enough.

I think it is really only relatively recently that rugby has properly sorted itself out as a professional sport, with players being exposed to professional standards at a much younger age, going through academies with very defined pathways for development etc. I think Leinster are best placed to take advantage of this, and to be fair they do it very well.

jamfer · 18-10-2018 10:05am

There is a player pathway in place for developing players. That pathway encompasses both schools and clubs. There is a lot of work involved in promoting rugby and attracting 6 year olds into the game. For many it is an elitist sport. The focus on schools does nothing to remove that. Growing the game is what you should be doing. Opening up new areas, new streams, new people to the game and the values of respect and discipline on field and off should be the guiding rule, not retrograde steps,closing down access to the top.

I would challenge anybody to go to an U15, U16, U17 or U18 Premier League final and tell me that the club players involved aren't as skilled or talented as a schools player. The Shane Horgan Cup is the first step on the Leinster player pathway for club players - go to the games and judge for yourself - there's a round in Donnybrook on January 2.

Also played in Donnybrook are the U15 McAuley Cup and the U17 Culleton Cup, these again will feature the creme of club players.

There is more to rugby than schools.

awec · 18-10-2018 10:07am

jamfer wrote: »

There is a player pathway in place for developing players. That pathway encompasses both schools and clubs. There is a lot of work involved in promoting rugby and attracting 6 year olds into the game. For many it is an elitist sport. The focus on schools does nothing to remove that. Growing the game is what you should be doing. Opening up new areas, new streams, new people to the game and the values of respect and discipline on field and off should be the guiding rule, not retrograde steps,closing down access to the top.

I would challenge anybody to go to an U15, U16, U17 or U18 Premier League final and tell me that the club players involved aren't as skilled or talented as a schools player. The Shane Horgan Cup is the first step on the Leinster player pathway for club players - go to the games and judge for yourself - there's a round in Donnybrook on January 2.

Also played in Donnybrook are the U15 McAuley Cup and the U17 Culleton Cup, these again will feature the creme of club players.

There is more to rugby than schools.

True, but in reality how many of today's professionals came through the club game rather than the school game?

Schools still rule the roost for player development in Ireland.

Paul Smeenus · 18-10-2018 10:20am

Actually, for all the talk of “taking” players, where it works is where it is driven by an ambitious player themselves. Jordi Murphy and John Cooney both instigated their moves to Ulster. Ambition (usually to play for the national team) proved more compelling than provincial loyalty. Jordi wants to represent Ireland. So does Cooney.

Cooney is rapidly becoming a serious hero up here in Ulster, and it’s not just for the quality of his play, or the high drama of some of our wins he has delivered with last minute kicks. It’s because he has come up here and given his all, off the pitch as well as on it. And because he said “I want to go to Ulster”.

troyzer · 18-10-2018 10:22am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Actually, for all the talk of “taking” players, where it works is where it is driven by an ambitious player themselves. Jordi Murphy and John Cooney both instigated their moves to Ulster. Ambition (usually to play for the national team) proved more compelling than provincial loyalty. Jordi wants to represent Ireland. So does Cooney.

Cooney is rapidly becoming a serious hero up here in Ulster, and it’s not just for the quality of his play, or the high drama of some of our wins he has delivered with last minute kicks. It’s because he has come up here and given his all, off the pitch as well as on it. And because he said “I want to go to Ulster”.

It's like saying "I really like monday mornings" or "Rocky V was the best one".

You really have to question the sanity of the person saying it.

Paul Smeenus · 18-10-2018 10:25am

Shut it. That’s OUR madman you’re talking about.

jamfer · 18-10-2018 10:35am

If rugby is to grow I suggest that that should change. What is the footprint in Leinster of the schools? How many are there and how many players do they have?

Club rugby is in every corner of the 12 counties of the province. Last season there were over 75 finals played for U13 to U18 players. There are upwards of 5,000 players in those age groups in club rugby. There is a huge population there that is not served by a focus on schools.

GAA is there, all the way along. If your talent isn't recognised, because nobody is looking beyond the exulted schools, then you'll chase the county jersey instead.

Rigor Mortis · 18-10-2018 10:37am

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with Mortis. Right now it's diluting due to necessity, medium to long term though each academy needs to improve as much as possible to limit it.

The provinces thrive on their local identities, I think it would take away much of the edge to remove that ingredient.

All my life was leading up to this. Now we are best friends you can call me Rigor.
I like stuff, do you like stuff too.

aloooof · 18-10-2018 10:37am

troyzer wrote: »

It's like saying "I really like monday mornings" or "Rocky V was the best one".

You really have to question the sanity of the person saying it.

The flip side is, if Carberry or Cooney have a kick in the 78th minute to win the World Cup final, would you rather they had been playing regularly for Munster and Ulster respectively in the previous season?

18-10-2018 10:43am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

All my life was leading up to this. Now we are best friends you can call me Rigor.
I like stuff, do you like stuff too.

What'cha doooin.....?

troyzer · 18-10-2018 10:44am

aloooof wrote: »

The flip side is, if Carberry or Cooney have a kick in the 78th minute to win the World Cup final, would you rather they had been playing regularly for Munster and Ulster respectively in the previous season?

Ugggggh.

You're making me choose between leprosy and gonorrhea.

prawnsambo · 18-10-2018 10:44am

aloooof wrote: »

The flip side is, if Carberry or Cooney have a kick in the 78th minute to win the World Cup final, would you rather they had been playing regularly for Munster and Ulster respectively in the previous season?

I don't think you can invoke his name if you can't spell it. :P

NFL style draft in Irish rugby?

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