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NFL style draft in Irish rugby?

troyzer

This one came up on Newstalk the other night and I was thinking it probably deserves its own thread.

The idea is that that every year after the senior cups, there would an IRFU organised NFL style draft where each province would pick a player in turn.

The order of pricks is determined by the ranking of the province in the previous year meaning that in a normal season you might have this order:

1. Connacht
2. Ulster
3. Munster
4. Leinster

Obviously as a Leinster fan I'd be dubious because it quite clearly shafts us the most, but it would spread the goods slightly from an overflowing academy system.

The main downside? The provinces would become pointless. You could be born, raised and learn to play rugby in Leinster but then picked for Connacht. It erodes the value of the ground up approach which has made the provinces so successful.

I also think it could lead to a slippery slope of players losing attachment to their province and eventually to their country and more would go abroad for the money.

Thoughts?

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stl.ire

troyzer wrote: »

Which is really annoying.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was a formal structure and Leinster were allowed to designate certain players as untouchable.

There is a formal structure. Ireland at the top then the four provinces below. Leinster are ultimately beholden to Ireland and they don’t need to designate players - if a player isn’t playing enough for Ireland’s liking because Leinster aren’t picking them then they are ‘designated’ for possible transfer. That’s tough to accept but it’s where the IRFU are moving things.

prawnsambo

troyzer wrote: »

OTB presented it as the schools effectively taking the role of colleges.

The senior cups would be like bowl games where the players know they have to perform and it'll raise their draft stock.

Personally, I think it's a load of ****e. But there has to be a less irritating way to spread the wealth then Munster poaching players at the two positions Leinster have the least depth.

Yes. But the schools (and clubs - everyone forgets the clubs) are effectively already in the provincial development structure. It's the province's development officers that oversee the whole thing. And the youth squads that are taken from those schools and clubs and introduced to the system.

troyzer

awec wrote: »

This won't happen.

I am pretty sure that Ulster, Munster and Connacht would oppose it for some intangible reason, even though they'd ultimately benefit from it in terms of squad strength. Leinster would be strongly against this idea as it pretty much nullifies the advantages they have over other provinces.

I think what's more likely to happen is recognition that it is not really a level playing field, that the other 3 will never match Leinster and Leinster will ultimately end up being forced to part with players on a more regular basis.

Which is really annoying.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was a formal structure and Leinster were allowed to designate certain players as untouchable.

awec

This won't happen.

I am pretty sure that Ulster, Munster and Connacht would oppose it for some intangible reason, even though they'd ultimately benefit from it in terms of squad strength. Leinster would be strongly against this idea as it pretty much nullifies the advantages they have over other provinces.

I think what's more likely to happen is recognition that it is not really a level playing field, that the other 3 will never match Leinster and Leinster will ultimately end up being forced to part with players on a more regular basis. Moves from Ulster/Munster/Connacht will be rare compared to moves from Leinster, but that's just a result of the realities of rugby in Ireland.

troyzer

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, but that takes the pressure off those that have not been getting the best from their academies. It would also likely cause dysfunctional behaviour. Why bother putting the effort into your youth structures and academies if it's just going to be taken off you at a whim?

And the NFL draft is from college players. Not from their own academies and development structures.

OTB presented it as the schools effectively taking the role of colleges.

The senior cups would be like bowl games where the players know they have to perform and it'll raise their draft stock.

Personally, I think it's a load of ****e. But there has to be a less irritating way to spread the wealth then Munster poaching players at the two positions Leinster have the least depth.

prawnsambo

troyzer wrote: »

I'm sure Nucifora would prefer if he could handpick the squads for each province. It would certainly be in the national team's interest to stop stacking everyone in Leinster.

Yeah, but that takes the pressure off those that have not been getting the best from their academies. It would also likely cause dysfunctional behaviour. Why bother putting the effort into your youth structures and academies if it's just going to be taken off you at a whim?

And the NFL draft is from college players. Not from their own academies and development structures.

stl.ire

troyzer wrote: »

We're already giving it away by making strategic loans/permanent trades from Leinster to shore up Munster.

First Carbery and now McCarthy. What's to stop Munster from saying they're a bit weak at loosehead and sure Ireland have two Lions there, can we have one?

Transfers and loans really only happen for one reason - the Ireland national team.

If a talented player is not getting sufficient game time to develop, and another province is short in their position, then these moves happen. That’s why Carbery moved (and Carbery’s development is why McCarthy will get moved), it’s why Conway, Murphy etc moved. A draft would be detrimental to Ireland’s national team so it will never happen. Instead the IRFU seem to want to increase the number of transfers as they can control them.

As for Leinster, there’s no doubt they are gifting other provinces players right now - then again they have the most central contracts so can’t really complain when the IRFU want something, and it’s not like Leinster haven’t benefited from a Henshaw or Boss from time to time. I’d be very interested to see what happens after the WC if Sean Cronin is close to retirement and Tracey hasn’t developed, Leo should get on the phone about Munster’s Scannell/Marshall or Ulster’s Herring/McBurney!

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with Mortis. Right now it's diluting due to necessity, medium to long term though each academy needs to improve as much as possible to limit it.

The provinces thrive on their local identities, I think it would take away much of the edge to remove that ingredient.

I'm sure Nucifora would prefer if he could handpick the squads for each province. It would certainly be in the national team's interest to stop stacking everyone in Leinster.

[Deleted User]

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

One of the great strengths of Irish teams is pride of place. It is consistently referred to by opposing teams and commentators. We would be crazy to give this away.

troyzer wrote: »

We're already giving it away by making strategic loans/permanent trades from Leinster to shore up Munster.

First Carbery and now McCarthy. What's to stop Munster from saying they're a bit weak at loosehead and sure Ireland have two Lions there, can we have one?

I agree with Mortis. Right now it's diluting due to necessity, medium to long term though each academy needs to improve as much as possible to limit it.

The provinces thrive on their local identities, I think it would take away much of the edge to remove that ingredient.

troyzer

sydthebeat wrote: »

Jeez that's a bit harsh on those young lads

I wonder if that was a Freudian slip.......

sydthebeat

troyzer wrote: »

The order of pricks is...

Jeez that's a bit harsh on those young lads

troyzer

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

One of the great strengths of Irish teams is pride of place. It is consistently referred to by opposing teams and commentators. We would be crazy to give this away.

We're already giving it away by making strategic loans/permanent trades from Leinster to shore up Munster.

First Carbery and now McCarthy. What's to stop Munster from saying they're a bit weak at loosehead and sure Ireland have two Lions there, can we have one?

Rigor Mortis

One of the great strengths of Irish teams is pride of place. It is consistently referred to by opposing teams and commentators. We would be crazy to give this away.