Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Proposed suckler cow subsidy

1…678911

Comments

  • #302
    Figerty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭Figerty


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    Lads are talking about the suckler being an ancient part of Irish history. It isn't. McShary nearly invented the Irish suckler in the 90's. Before that nearly every small man with cows was milking 10 or 12 cows and rearing the calves.

    Correct. They were more likely rearing a few geese, and chickens for the table and a few pigs. The change to bulk tankers saw the end of the small dairy farmers in the west. The change to sucklers became the choice due to the off-farm income need.


  • #303
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    The original suckler double and triple sucked two batches of calves. Pure drudgery.. the single suck was a revelation but is an economic white elephant.


  • #304
    KatyMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭KatyMac


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    Lads are talking about the suckler being an ancient part of Irish history. It isn't. McShary nearly invented the Irish suckler in the 90's. Before that nearly every small man with cows was milking 10 or 12 cows and rearing the calves.

    That was the way my parents reared 3 of us! We also had sheep, reared a couple dozen turkeys and grew almost enough vegetables to do us for the year, plus fruit trees to make jams etc. And if any of the cows was not up to standard, eg, 3 tits or not great quality of milk, she had as many calves as would fit under her. Our cows were not culled until they were well in their teens!

    Nowadays, I struggle with the farm and 2 off farm jobs! And never seem to have enough time for all that has to be done. And I don't think this is me looking back with rose tinted specs!!


  • #305
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    Lads are talking about the suckler being an ancient part of Irish history. It isn't. McShary nearly invented the Irish suckler in the 90's. Before that nearly every small man with cows was milking 10 or 12 cows and rearing the calves.
    Iirc, there were some 400k suckler cows in Ireland pre the McSharry reforms.


  • #306
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,841 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Are you saying beef breeds or Fr cross, often multiple suckling?


  • Advertisement
  • #307
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Water John wrote: »
    Are you saying beef breeds or Fr cross, often multiple suckling?
    I don't think there was a distinction involving breed at all in the beginning, John.


    It would involve all breeds with calves left on them, I think.


  • #308
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,841 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Yeah, there was absolutely zero beef cow suckling down my way, prior to 1993.
    Fr or Fr X cow with 2+ calves.


  • #309
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,398 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    You can see where Teagasc & co are going with this. Breed a super efficient national herd emissions wise. Doesn't make sense then to move beef production elsewhere in the world . There's a method to their madness.


  • #310
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,841 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Make even better sense if beef production was integrated with dairy. There would be no need for the suckler cow. Look at all the breeds and crosses that could provide a good calf with beef potential.
    That would massively reduce the carbon footprint.


  • #311
    TITANIUM.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭TITANIUM.


    Water John wrote: »
    Make even better sense if beef production was integrated with dairy. There would be no need for the suckler cow. Look at all the breeds and crosses that could provide a good calf with beef potential.
    That would massively reduce the carbon footprint.

    Or we could reintroduce the quotas and force all those greedy dairy farmers to reduce there numbers. Now that would put a nice dent in our Canon Footprint.


  • Advertisement
  • #312
    Base price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,661 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Base price wrote: »
    Here is the link to the article by Darragh McCullough. It's interesting reading -

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/darragh-mccullough-its-time-to-park-our-emotions-and-debunk-the-myths-about-suckler-farming-37373296.html
    A letter to the editor in response to the above article.

    More interesting reading -

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/letter-to-the-editor-suckler-farmers-need-supports-while-farm-leaders-devise-a-soft-landing-for-the-sector-37398280.html


  • #313
    Grueller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,448 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Base price wrote: »
    A letter to the editor in response to the above article.

    More interesting reading -

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/letter-to-the-editor-suckler-farmers-need-supports-while-farm-leaders-devise-a-soft-landing-for-the-sector-37398280.html

    That man should be a spokesperson for the farm organisations.


  • #314
    Sheep breeder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Grueller wrote: »
    That man should be a spokesperson for the farm organisations.

    A good man to tank about sucklers and he involved in a share dairy farming.


  • #315
    Grueller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,448 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Sheep breeder wrote: »
    A good man to tank about sucklers and he involved in a share dairy farming.

    Maybe so but he can put a point across


  • #316
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Base price wrote: »
    A letter to the editor in response to the above article.

    More interesting reading -

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/letter-to-the-editor-suckler-farmers-need-supports-while-farm-leaders-devise-a-soft-landing-for-the-sector-37398280.html

    Imo the most important paragraph in the original piece was

    "It's a pity that there's no leadership to prevent this becoming a dairy versus beef debate rather than a discussion on the best way to ensure a real economic return for the biggest number of farmers possible."

    Anyone like to define "a real economic return" for the class? For me it's the average industrial wage per hour worked plus a return ln my capital at minimum. How far does €2500-€3000 go in terms of giving a real economic return to the average suckler farmer?


  • #317
    Keepgrowing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Keepgrowing


    TITANIUM. wrote: »
    Or we could reintroduce the quotas and force all those greedy dairy farmers to reduce there numbers. Now that would put a nice dent in our Canon Footprint.

    Or just leave it as is, cause that’s working.

    Why go down the “greedy dairy farmer” route?


  • #318
    Bullocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,893 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    Keepgrowing wrote: »
    Or just leave it as is, cause that’s working.

    Why go down the “greedy dairy farmer” route?

    I don't think it's fair calling dairy farmer's greedy. I wonder if milk was 12c and beef was €10 per kilo what would us sucklers do about helping the milk lads?


  • #319
    Keepgrowing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Keepgrowing


    Bullocks wrote: »
    I don't think it's fair calling dairy farmer's greedy. I wonder if milk was 12c and beef was €10 per kilo what would us sucklers do about helping the milk lads?

    It’s very important the country isn’t covered in dairy farms. Mixed enterprises in an areas keep communities alive. Beef farming will continue but the raw material will be from the dairy herd.

    That will put it up the dairy farmers to provide better quality calves


  • #320
    K9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 ✭✭K9


    Keepgrowing wrote: »
    It’s very important the country isn’t covered in dairy farms. Mixed enterprises in an areas keep communities alive. Beef farming will continue but the raw material will be from the dairy herd.

    That will put it up the dairy farmers to provide better quality calves

    As long as beef farmers are climbing over themselves to buy overpriced calves in the spring, dairy farmers won’t care one bit about calf quality and why would they.
    Best thing beef farmers could do is to Let the dairy farmers rear their own calves and stop paying handsomely to provide labour for them.
    IMO too much risk in buying calves, way better value to be had buying dairy bred weanlings.


  • #321
    Mac Taylor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Mac Taylor


    Accordingly to the FJ a free Jersey calf should come with a payment of €165:D
    (So says kepak)

    Where does that leave us!!


  • Advertisement
  • #322
    Bullocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,893 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    Mac Taylor wrote: »
    Accordingly to the FJ a free Jersey calf should come with a payment of €165:D
    (So says kepak)

    Where does that leave us!!

    Leaves us tripping over ourselves to pay 265 for jersey bull calves ?:D


  • #323
    Mac Taylor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Mac Taylor


    Bullocks wrote: »
    Leaves us tripping over ourselves to pay 265 for jersey bull calves ?:D

    Unfortunately your probably right:confused:


  • #324
    Grueller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,448 ✭✭✭Grueller


    On the whole carbon footprint thing, I drove up the main street of my local town at 8:15 last night. Every shop front had external lighting on the shop front, heavily lighted displays in the windows and internal lighting on. They are all left on at night from closing time at 6:00pm to 9:00am. Yet my cows belching are the biggest environmental hazard out there.
    I believe in the tooth fairy too.


  • #325
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,323 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Grueller wrote: »
    On the whole carbon footprint thing, I drove up the main street of my local town at 8:15 last night. Every shop front had external lighting on the shop front, heavily lighted displays in the windows and internal lighting on. They are all left on at night from closing time at 6:00pm to 9:00am. Yet my cows belching are the biggest environmental hazard out there.
    I believe in the tooth fairy too.

    Electricity used at night has virtually no carbon footprint. Electricity generation is determinded by max demand usage. Max demand is is from 6-8pm when everybody gets home and puts on the dinner, the heating and the light as well as farmers milking cows etc etc. This is why night rate electricity is so cheap. You cannot turn off power statsions at best you can reduce them down to a lower running rate. At night less than 50% of electricity generated is used produvtively. As lots of shops stay open beyond 6pm and you also have most shops and business use high efficent LED lighting for cost efficiency. It is possible taht the equivlent of a 60 watt bulb is lighting a lot of those shops you see.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #326
    grassroot1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    Bass Reeves wrote:
    The government can only deal with carbon the way it is internationally calculated. It is immaterial in reality how much a dairy cow or suckler cow really cause on a carbon footprint. It is what it is internationally calculated at. Look at it from a national economic point of view. A suckler cow produces a weanling at the end of the year that on average is worth across the sector 6-800 euro. A dairy cow produces about 2K in milk and a weanling that is worth 3-400 on average. There is about 3 time the return on the same carbon footprint.


    I was led to believe that the dairy cow far exceeds the beef cow in their respective carbon footprint


  • #327
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,398 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    The government can only deal with carbon the way it is internationally calculated. It is immaterial in reality how much a dairy cow or suckler cow really cause on a carbon footprint. It is what it is internationally calculated at. Look at it from a national economic point of view. A suckler cow produces a weanling at the end of the year that on average is worth across the sector 6-800 euro. A dairy cow produces about 2K in milk and a weanling that is worth 3-400 on average. There is about 3 time the return on the same carbon footprint.

    When you put it like that. :mad: These are just €€€€ outputs though. Both cows, dairy and suckler, produce a calf every year. Both produce milk. One produces more milk, the other more beef. The € difference is a reflection of the labour required to milk that cow for the year. If there was the same labour required for both systems, then incomes would be the same.


  • #328
    Grueller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,448 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Electricity used at night has virtually no carbon footprint. Electricity generation is determinded by max demand usage. Max demand is is from 6-8pm when everybody gets home and puts on the dinner, the heating and the light as well as farmers milking cows etc etc. This is why night rate electricity is so cheap. You cannot turn off power statsions at best you can reduce them down to a lower running rate. At night less than 50% of electricity generated is used produvtively. As lots of shops stay open beyond 6pm and you also have most shops and business use high efficent LED lighting for cost efficiency. It is possible taht the equivlent of a 60 watt bulb is lighting a lot of those shops you see.

    I understand that Bass but the point is not really those shops. It is all the wastage across all sectors, yet the suckler cow seems to be the sacrificial lamb for all other environmental woes.


  • #329
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    If you look at it the meat factories don't want the big 400 kgs plus carcass from the suckler cow. They are using ever opportunity to kick it, sure they are paying a premium (bonus) on AA, HE & SH these are the carcass types they want, coming in around 350 Kgs if at all possible. I am guessing there is more profit in the 5th quarter than they would have you believe therefore they are looking for these smaller weights so that they get more heads but only pay for a similar amount of beef. They don't want the live shipping of good continental weanlings either as this is providing opposition to them. One way around this is to produce a good quality AA / HE off a continental cow that will kill around the 390 kgs at 2 year old grading an R3 and if timed right could be pay around €4.20/ kg coming in at €1,638. But the quality of AA & HE bulls with the AI at the minute is very poor.


  • #330
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Mod note: I moved the BEEP Scheme discussion into it's own thread, link for it below.


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057919331#


    Buford T. Justice


  • Advertisement
  • #331
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,841 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Smaller finished beef cuts and thus animal are for the customer. Sales of individually packaged cuts is where the growth market is.

    BTW the only thing a Jersey X bull calf should get is a quick end, not a subsidy.


Advertisement