Proposed suckler cow subsidy

Parishlad · 02-10-2018 02:29PM

Willfarman wrote: »

Begob he didn’t hold back! A good article is right.

Could you post a link please?

Willfarman · 02-10-2018 02:34PM

Parishlad wrote: »

Could you post a link please?

Not online yet as far as I can see. I linked with my aul lads bought paper!

Parishlad · 02-10-2018 02:38PM

Willfarman wrote: »

Not online yet as far as I can see. I linked with my aul lads bought paper!

Sound, thanks!

wrangler · 02-10-2018 02:57PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ya he left them have both barrels and came with the butt afterwards

I am not so sure about it being about who's friend with who. They just give a different opinion. Too many look at the FJ as being an independent voice when it is far from that. The Indo is carving a niche with an alternative voice and different opinion's to the FJ

They all cater to a readership that gives the best return, they have to interpret their market and cater for it same as any media.
There's suckler farmers that don't have farms suitable for beef production and don't want f.......g friesians and if a subsidy makes it easier then so be it.
More cattle, less cattle, whatever you're having, processors will be ahead of the farmers no matter what, they'll get their margin and pay the farmers what's left no matter what crystal ball gazing you do.
And that's a foregone conclusion, meanwhile framers fight among themselves.

Willfarman · 02-10-2018 04:46PM

No point Having coupled production payments that further strengthen the processers hand. Horses are often preferable to friesians for people too but they wouldn’t be stupid enough to demand 200 euro payment per mare!

Round round in circle we go and you stick your fingers on your ears. For the umpteenth time. No one is against a payment or some new money but for the love of God link it to extensive environmental farming and it has at least chance of staying in the farmers pocket.

blue5000 · 04-10-2018 03:53PM

Willfarman wrote: »

No point Having coupled production payments that further strengthen the processers hand. Horses are often preferable to friesians for people too but they wouldn’t be stupid enough to demand 200 euro payment per mare!

Round round in circle we go and you stick your fingers on your ears. For the umpteenth time. No one is against a payment or some new money but for the love of God link it to extensive environmental farming and it has at least chance of staying in the farmers pocket.

Funny how the organic option is closed until 2020 at least.:rolleyes:

If all the beef farmers who are left went organic, grass fed only beef, LG would have some headache trying to supply fresh beef all year round.

Sad thing is those that are already organic don't want any new members as prices would drop......

Sorry, can't come up with any good solutions today.

Base price · 05-10-2018 10:07AM

Here is the link to the article by Darragh McCullough. It's interesting reading -

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/darragh-mccullough-its-time-to-park-our-emotions-and-debunk-the-myths-about-suckler-farming-37373296.html

wrangler · 05-10-2018 10:34AM

Base price wrote: »

Here is the link to the article by Darragh McCullough. It's interesting reading -

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/darragh-mccullough-its-time-to-park-our-emotions-and-debunk-the-myths-about-suckler-farming-37373296.html

Not every farm is suitable for dairying, not every farm is suitable for contract rearing dairy cattle, I'm sure dairy farmers themselves wouldn't accept putting their cattle on poor land,
Why should farmers be compelled to feed these dairy by products when the factories themselve can't make a success of it, will that enterprise, have to be a quasi welfare system too.
Dairy farmers with low entitlements are getting increases over the last few years and drystock farmers getting cuts and this is the ''flattening '' that he's praising....go figure.
Wasn't Darraghs farm a top dairy farm one time, wonder how is it now

charolais0153 · 05-10-2018 10:38AM

Base price wrote: »

Here is the link to the article by Darragh McCullough. It's interesting reading -

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/darragh-mccullough-its-time-to-park-our-emotions-and-debunk-the-myths-about-suckler-farming-37373296.html

Good article but what happens when evry tom dick and harry have dairy cows and prices go to pot?

patsy_mccabe · 05-10-2018 10:39AM

Nothing new in that, in fairness. He does make a good point about emissions though. If agriculture does get targetted for emissions, then the suckler cow could be the first hit. We will just have to defend that with the ' We don't take away young babies from their mother's' line.

wrangler · 05-10-2018 10:55AM

Darraghs post is up on Facebook, first comment on it is my sentiments only I was trying to be polite :cool:

Loves_lorries · 05-10-2018 12:05PM

Base price wrote: »

Here is the link to the article by Darragh McCullough. It's interesting reading -

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/darragh-mccullough-its-time-to-park-our-emotions-and-debunk-the-myths-about-suckler-farming-37373296.html

number of things you could take from that article, here is my take on things.

the powers that be have made it policy ( beit a slow drawn out one ) to sacrafice the suckler cow herd in order to allow expansion of the dairy industry , in order to meet emission targets , the population of cattle in the country wont increase any numerically but while dairy cow numbers will continue to increase , beef - suckler cow numbers will collapse , in turn more and more land will be diverted to forestry as forestry is the counter measure against increased dairy production , its the trump card for meeting emissions .

on the suckler cow subsidy campaign , the beef barons probably have the most lobbying power there . more tax payer funded subs means they can get away with paying pitiful prices per kg for beef , heard it said once that larry goodman had more influence on subsidy negotiations than a couple of hundred thousand farmers combined .

i suppose it will come down to whether or not the customer , the beef barons and the EU are prepared to have everything coming from the dairy cow including burger production ?

farisfat · 05-10-2018 12:10PM

charolais0153 wrote: »

Good article but what happens when evry tom dick and harry have dairy cows and prices go to pot?

Prices are pot for year at beef and we just keep at it.

wrangler · 05-10-2018 12:23PM

farisfat wrote: »

Prices are pot for year at beef and we just keep at it.

Whatever about producing beef at 3.70/kg but what's a O- making this week
if that's the level most friesian cattle are at, where's the future there, we definitely wouldn't put an O grade lamb in our freezer,

yosemitesam1 · 05-10-2018 12:37PM

Willfarman wrote: »

No point Having coupled production payments that further strengthen the processers hand. Horses are often preferable to friesians for people too but they wouldn’t be stupid enough to demand 200 euro payment per mare!

Round round in circle we go and you stick your fingers on your ears. For the umpteenth time. No one is against a payment or some new money but for the love of God link it to extensive environmental farming and it has at least chance of staying in the farmers pocket.

Sucklers probably the best fit for very low input and high nature value type farming. Could kill two birds with the one stone if done right

Bass Reeves · 05-10-2018 01:03PM

wrangler wrote: »

Not every farm is suitable for dairying, not every farm is suitable for contract rearing dairy cattle, I'm sure dairy farmers themselves wouldn't accept putting their cattle on poor land,
Why should farmers be compelled to feed these dairy by products when the factories themselve can't make a success of it, will that enterprise, have to be a quasi welfare system too.
Dairy farmers with low entitlements are getting increases over the last few years and drystock farmers getting cuts and this is the ''flattening '' that he's praising....go figure.
Wasn't Darraghs farm a top dairy farm one time, wonder how is it now

It si suckler that the processors cannotmake a profit. Both demo farms by Dawn and the IFA will prove over the next few years the futility of sucklers especially on fairly decent land

charolais0153 wrote: »

Good article but what happens when evry tom dick and harry have dairy cows and prices go to pot?

Our dairy industr is miniscule on a world stage if dairy prices drop the Irish and New Zealand system sneeze, the rest of the dairy industry in the world get peunomia

Loves_lorries wrote: »

heard it said once that larry goodman had more influence on subsidy negotiations than a couple of hundred thousand farmers combined .

Not sure if that is totally true. Processors wanted suckler cow premium ringfenced in when the SFP first happened. They are pushing hard for a suckler cow subsidity pow

wrangler wrote: »

Whatever about producing beef at 3.70/kg but what's a O- making this week
if that's the level most friesian cattle are at, where's the future there, we definitely wouldn't put an O grade lamb in our freezer,

Shifted 10 light Friesians week before last at 3.75 base. Grading 5 were P+, 3 were O-, 2 were O= of which 1 got QA. They still left a margin admittely a small margin but they were virtually the last of this years kill four left to go.

orchard farm · 05-10-2018 01:22PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Sucklers probably the best fit for very low input and high nature value type farming. Could kill two birds with the one stone if done right

Agree totally I believe high nature value farming is the most sustainable for large areas of the West north west,but try telling that to the powers that be...

wrangler · 05-10-2018 01:28PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It si suckler that the processors cannotmake a profit. Both demo farms by Dawn and the IFA will prove over the next few years the futility of sucklers especially on fairly decent land

Our dairy industr is miniscule on a world stage if dairy prices drop the Irish and New Zealand system sneeze, the rest of the dairy industry in the world get peunomia

Not sure if that is totally true. Processors wanted suckler cow premium ringfenced in when the SFP first happened. They are pushing hard for a suckler cow subsidity pow

Shifted 10 light Friesians week before last at 3.75 base. Grading 5 were P+, 3 were O-, 2 were O= of which 1 got QA. They still left a margin admittely a small margin but they were virtually the last of this years kill four left to go.

What's a O- worth at 375 base

freedominacup · 05-10-2018 02:05PM

orchard farm wrote: »

Agree totally I believe high nature value farming is the most sustainable for large areas of the West north west,but try telling that to the powers that be...

50,000 farmers, over 40% of the total number farming cover 16% of the area farmed and produce 6% of agri output. How much higher nature value fo you envisage?

yosemitesam1 · 05-10-2018 02:11PM

freedominacup wrote: »

50,000 farmers, over 40% of the total number farming cover 16% of the area farmed and produce 6% of agri output. How much higher nature value fo you envisage?

You can be low output and low nature value which the majority are

Bass Reeves · 05-10-2018 02:19PM

wrangler wrote: »

What's a O- worth at 375 base

24c off the base so 3.49/kg. No QA which means that they are cheap beef for the processors. In last week Indo the journalist that give the beef report said that there is a report out that with the grid that 85% of cattle either do not qualify for QA or suffer penalties under the system.

When you factor that in it means that lots of cattle that get QA recieve at least a 6 cent penalty. What the processors give with one hand they take away with another. It means as well that if it was only suckler bred cattle qualified for QA ( and there are some dairy stock that do) only every second one would recieve full QA.

orchard farm · 05-10-2018 02:21PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

You can be low output and low nature value which the majority are

Yes but wouldnt a scheme targeted at this type of environmentally friendly public good be more sensible than coupled supports for unprofitable suckler cows for farmers who can't dairy or plant

wrangler · 05-10-2018 02:33PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

24c off the base so 3.49/kg. No QA which means that they are cheap beef for the processors. In last week Indo the journalist that give the beef report said that there is a report out that with the grid that 85% of cattle either do not qualify for QA or suffer penalties under the system.

When you factor that in it means that lots of cattle that get QA recieve at least a 6 cent penalty. What the processors give with one hand they take away with another. It means as well that if it was only suckler bred cattle qualified for QA ( and there are some dairy stock that do) only every second one would recieve full QA.

QA is a standard and factories would be within their rights to insist on QA without any bonus, I believe the creameries are getting to the stage of refusing to collect milk off non QA, I know someone who's employed by a processor to help some suppliers get across the line, What factories are at is only aggravating everyone ......we'll pay on this and we won't pay on that, They'd be better to pay say 3c kg less and say nothing.
At this stage there's not much between being Cross Compliant and QA

yosemitesam1 · 05-10-2018 02:50PM

orchard farm wrote: »

Yes but wouldnt a scheme targeted at this type of environmentally friendly public good be more sensible than coupled supports for unprofitable suckler cows for farmers who can't dairy or plant

Ye

patsy_mccabe · 05-10-2018 04:21PM

orchard farm wrote: »

Agree totally I believe high nature value farming is the most sustainable for large areas of the West north west,but try telling that to the powers that be...

Just don't forget to feed the masses. A hungry electorate will forget about the environment very quickly.

Water John · 05-10-2018 05:00PM

That might well be true if it was only domestic consumption but we largely export.
Maybe I'm an old fogey but the old system to dairy/beef cross calves going to the West to be reared and going East to be finished had much to recommend it and fitted well with the land profile. It was in fact very efficient.

Bass Reeves · 05-10-2018 05:27PM

wrangler wrote: »

QA is a standard and factories would be within their rights to insist on QA without any bonus, I believe the creameries are getting to the stage of refusing to collect milk off non QA, I know someone who's employed by a processor to help some suppliers get across the line, What factories are at is only aggravating everyone ......we'll pay on this and we won't pay on that, They'd be better to pay say 3c kg less and say nothing.
At this stage there's not much between being Cross Compliant and QA

Sometime you really show how little you understand the Beef/drystock business. You asked me about the price for O- cattle I gave you the price and a bit about QA. Factory's are insisting on QA with out paying for it. If you are not in Board Bia QA and try to slaughter cattle you will be penalized with at least a 20C penalty. QA is a standard now and we do not get paid for it but along with that they are now using the grid so as that the number they pay QA on is minicule

wrangler · 05-10-2018 06:02PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sometime you really show how little you understand the Beef/drystock business. You asked me about the price for O- cattle I gave you the price and a bit about QA. Factory's are insisting on QA with out paying for it. If you are not in Board Bia QA and try to slaughter cattle you will be penalized with at least a 20C penalty. QA is a standard now and we do not get paid for it but along with that they are now using the grid so as that the number they pay QA on is minicule

I ignore lambs making €7/kg same as you obviously accept killing cattle at poor prices, we could get better prices but it'd cost more. Cattle and lamb price has been poor in October fro as long as I remember. Factories know they have to give at least 50c/kg more in June Than October or they'd be flooded with cattle in October. Common sense would tell you all these things not knowledge of the drystock business.
Do you even know is an O- beast even fit to be in a supermarket or is it just good enough for mince. I wouldn't eat an O grade lamb and an O- must be pretty poor

Bass Reeves · 05-10-2018 08:14PM

wrangler wrote: »

I ignore lambs making €7/kg same as you obviously accept killing cattle at poor prices, we could get better prices but it'd cost more. Cattle and lamb price has been poor in October fro as long as I remember. Factories know they have to give at least 50c/kg more in June Than October or they'd be flooded with cattle in October. Common sense would tell you all these things not knowledge of the drystock business.
Do you even know is an O- beast even fit to be in a supermarket or is it just good enough for mince. I wouldn't eat an O grade lamb and an O- must be pretty poor

Again you show your total misunderstanding of the beef market. Most people if they see U grade meat will not buy it. Portions to large no fat. The beef that wins tasting competitions is actually HO 3 year old steer beef, after that it is AA and HE all of which is O grading. Most heifers killed by butchers in Ireland tends to be under 250 kgs. DW. Most of these if they went on to a grading machine would be O-2+ or even 2=.
As for lambs give me a blackfaceXtexal hoggett from the hill or a hoggett mule weather killed in March fattened on early spring grass 30+kgs DW rather than that tasteless carp we get as lamb each summer

bogman_bass · 05-10-2018 08:29PM

Lads are talking about the suckler being an ancient part of Irish history. It isn't. McShary nearly invented the Irish suckler in the 90's. Before that nearly every small man with cows was milking 10 or 12 cows and rearing the calves.

Proposed suckler cow subsidy

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